Hunger in South Asia at levels of Ethiopia and Chad

[p2prada]

Dontwannafite; sir
dont just try it, do it!
i think it is very easyin india, its very simple that , your primeminster can declar's in indiain parliment by a simple motion, that caste system is being banned, and india is not a hindu state any more.
see very easy !

India is not a Hindu state. We are a secular state. Just like Dontwannafite says, we have no interest in your caste or creed or even race.
I have worked with SC/STs, muslims, christians. Some of my closest friends are muslims, christians, and backward classes. I dont feel the slightest bit of difference when I am with them.

Our non madrasa education makes us blind to religion itself. Other than diwali, i have also celebrated ramzan, christmas and easter with friends.

INDIA IS THE ONLY PLACE ON PLANET EARTH WHERE YOU CAN CELEBRATE ALL RELIGIONS UNDER ONE ROOF.

I bet there is not a single pakistani here who has actually celebrated festivals from 3 or more religions like I have.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stop reading Propaganda BS published in Pak. It is screwing with your minds on the truth.

I was with you until this line - perceptions and skewed interpretations of the 'other side' exist in both countries. Indians don't have a monopoly on the truth nor an 'unbiased' media - that much is evident from what can only be called 'hate filled' posts by legions of Indians on the Web.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well most of them are replies and not quotes.....

If you are referring to the legions of hate filled posts I referred to, then you are wrong - many of them are indeed direct posts, not responses to provocations, especially on Indian forums.

Again, lets not pretend that India does not have its own propaganda, biases and prejudices about Pakistan

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Will u plz enlighten us with one simple reason, why India would do that??........

Do we need to do propaganda after we come to know what u have been taught all ur life in pakistan about India...... I have seen many pakistani sites which says INDIA is evil, but i never had seen an indian site saying that pakistan is evil.............

so what reactions do u expect????

Open arms?

So you are actually going to tell me with a straight face that you have never seen a single Indian forum, or even a 'neutral' forum where Indian's have talked trash about Pakistan and posted hateful and prejudiced comments about it?

And then thrown in some more BS about how you guys have no propaganda but every hateful comment you make about Pakistan is the 'truth'!

 

[p2prada]

I was with you until this line - perceptions and skewed interpretations of the 'other side' exist in both countries. Indians don't have a monopoly on the truth nor an 'unbiased' media - that much is evident from what can only be called 'hate filled' posts by legions of Indians on the Web.

I agree with you. But, the 'other side' views in pak is simply too extreme.
When one off incidents do happen in india. Like lynching some dalits in some remote village in one corner of india. The report is first printed in india. Then this news is carried to pakistan and bloated in such a way that the paksitani civilians actually believe the local govt is in cahoots with the actual perpetrators of the crime.
Pak media directly call the govt itself as the sponsors of such hate crimes. The worst part is pakistani citizens are themselves fed with enough negativity about india that they believe it.
Hate crimes do happen. But they dont happen in cities where there is direct govt control. But, happen in remote villages where the panchayats rule.

For example, according to BATMANs post.

Dear Agno it has to be seen in the context; when Ban kay moon is bidding to change the status of india in parallel to China.
It is a rare news poping up other wise one women raped in Pakistan is treated differently and incidents of hundereds of Christians being burned alive and converted to hinduism on gun point is treated differently.
Indian state laws are no different than Martial laws and their sole purpose is to indimidate minorities but never any western news paper dare to report about prisoners dying in indian state custody.

He is supposed to be an Elite Member of this forum. And such a senior member is posting hate messages. Then imagine the plight of uneducated masses who can easily be twisted through propaganda.

The indian govt is actually doing exactly the opposite of what BATMAN claims.
Do u know that the CONGRESS govt calls itself the "CHAMPION OF MINORITIES"


As for 100s of Christians being burnt alive, it is as BS as it can get.
The christians were only beaten up and their churches were vandalized. They were not killed, except maybe some minor incidents. But 100s that too burnt alive. People will actually think there is a genocide going on.


I have noticed that the amount of propaganda fed into your minds is so high that some members refer to the long abolished SATI still being practised.


The level of propaganda in india against pakistan is nowhere near the level of propaganda in pakistan against india .

 

[p2prada]

I was with you until this line - perceptions and skewed interpretations of the 'other side' exist in both countries. Indians don't have a monopoly on the truth nor an 'unbiased' media - that much is evident from what can only be called 'hate filled' posts by legions of Indians on the Web.

All major terrorist attacks on Pakistan are happening post 2001, due to pak commitment to the war on terror. Before that, all terrorist attacks on pak was some minor balochi unrest. Meaning u have been facing terrorist attacks only since the last 6-7 years.
And the only kind of negativity the pak media could generate from india was the so called atrocities from the indian side on kashmiris and some minor dalit incident related to the caste problem.

But, India was reeling under terrorist attacks since 1989. Thats 19 years. Militancy started honourably when the mullahs directed attacks against army formations. But, later got messed up when the mullahs ordered attacks on the same civilians they wanted to save.You know and I know that militancy in kashmir is pak sponsored. So, obviously any average teenager in india who grew up when terrorism was at its peak knew that it was pak sponsored. The hate they carry is of genuine concern.

The terrorists operating in pak were from backward parts of kashmir and pakistan. many from afghanistan and central asian countries. So, obviuosly they were not related to pakistani citizens. They would die and there was nobody to cry for them. What i mean is most pakistani citizens were not related to all the death in kashmir.

But in india, the army jawans and officers were no more or no less backward than anybody in this forum. They had families they would leave behind. so, obviously the kids they would leave behind will be a part of the legions of indians. So many of these so called indians spewing hate are just people who have either lost a father or a brother in india.

I have noticed that out of most of the pakistani members of this forum. Those who argue with valid points and proper reasoning are based outside of pakistan. I have not seen a single person in this forum who actually lives in pakistan and is capable of argung with reason. Plus, almost all the admins of this forum are based outside pakistan.(judging by their location flags.)

 

[p2prada]

Again, lets not pretend that India does not have its own propaganda, biases and prejudices about Pakistan

All our propaganda is directed at the political establishment, ISI and the ruling junta. I have not read a single BS report on pak citizens. We have more fun making fun of our own ministers than worry about how an average pakistani lives his life.

Actually, the only time I read anything concrete was related to pak public was during an indo pak match where the paper reported that tandoori chickens are better than whats available in india and that indian bollywood movie dvds are available for as low as Rs 80 compared to 500 in india.

I never knew pak poverty rating was worse than ours until i got into forums.

Most of my friends dont even know how many states pakistan has. Some have never even heard of waziristan or balochistan. And i m talking about students in engineering colleges. If u come to any engg college in bangalore. I bet there will be only 10-15% who will actually know that ISI is the main clandestine organization in Pak. Others will just think it is another terror group like the LeT. Almost 90% of my friends have no idea that RAW is our own such agency.


It is basically those with a military background, journalists or enthusiasts like me who actually haunt such forums, atleast in india.

 

[Neo]

NO I am not saying that...... I am saying that a Indian when born as a child have no hatred for pakistan........then there must be something he must have come across in his lifetime, e.g. as an adolescent that he thinks of pakistan in a hatred manner....... and same for pakistani people.........

Pakistanis hate India coz they are taught India is bad,
and,
Indians hate pakistanis coz they know pakistanis hate them...........

And who taught you that? Have you ever set a foot in Pakistan to see what our society is like?
I've encountered zillions of Indian internet warriors who hate Pakistan, yet I donot see them as average Indians nor do I draw conclusions about whats been taught in India based on their biased propaganda.

Hatred between our countries exists at political level and in international fora to some extent but Pakistani youth is lot more moderate then older generations who whitnessed partition and had every reason to hate India.
My family suffered great loss during the partition, even sibblings died when our house was burnt by Hindus yet my parents never taught me to hate them. And I'm just an average Pakistani.

Thats what i am saying..................e.g. we are not taught anything about pakistsan in our schools.....lets say anything about MA Jinnah or Islam...........
but i am schocked to know what pakistani children are taught about Hinduism and Mahatma Gandhi.

Try to visit Pakistan, it will be an eye opener. We're way over India than most Indians can imagine.

So wont that piss Indians off, and then wont they shoot back their hatredness.....

thats how it starts......

Blame your giovernement, your media and even Bollywood for hate mongering, not us!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

P2Prada:

Your view that the vies in Pakistan are 'too extreme' but those in India are not is itself a biased and prejudiced and shall I say 'extreme' view. What you posted is basically a validation of my initial comment to you - that some Indians (most that I come in contact with in fact) are so brainwashed with the propaganda, hatred and bias they are fed in India, that they cannot but think of Pakistan as 'evil'. Disguising it under the pretext of 'only against the ISI or establishment' is a poor attempt, and you are absolutely wrong when it comes to 'only directed at the establishment' they are often directed at Muslims and Pakistanis in general - in fact your own words here' what does the avarge Pakistani think' are an insult and prejudice directed at the average Pakistani.

Batmannow's posts are in fact decent when compared to Indians on 'neutral' forums I have come across, who are far more articulate and obviously very well educated. I could take the same argument and say that based on those posts, I can only speculate how deep the hatred and brainwashing fed to the average Indian is.

To try and act self righteous and pretend that India's (or Pakistan's) shyt doesn't stink will get us nowhere. I have seen plenty of hate and ignorance about Pakistan from Indians to where I have no doubt that the problems attributed to Pakistan in terms of 'brainwashing, prejudice and hate' exist in equal amount in India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

P2Prada:

Actually, the only time I read anything concrete was related to pak public was during an indo pak match where the paper reported that tandoori chickens are better than whats available in india and that indian bollywood movie dvds are available for as low as Rs 80 compared to 500 in india.

I never knew pak poverty rating was worse than ours until i got into forums.

Most of my friends dont even know how many states pakistan has.

Since you have admitted that you don't have any idea about Pakistan or Pakistanis, I would appreciate if you not continue to make these ridiculous sweeping generalizations about how "Pakistanis are worse".

 

[Neo]

I visit many fora, keep track of Defence.pk's Pakistani and non Pakistani member's and their posts. You will be shocked to read some of the replies of Indians who act "moderate" here. Same people call for full distruction of Pakistan, love to share their wet dreams about US invading Pakistan and kicking her back to stone age.

Baghal mai churi muh mai Ram Ram, thats how we call that in Urdu.

So please set your own house in order before lecturing us about hatred.

 

[DarkStar]

The biggest misconception in the INdian mind is that Pakistanis hate Indians. That somehow this is what we are taught in our schools, homes, society. Nothing can be further from the truth. Most Indians who visit Pakistan are pleasantly surprised by the attitudes of the locals, which have been painted as indian haters.

It is about time that misconception is cleared at least from the minds of the indians who visit this forum.

Even our old people who had suffered under sikh pogroms in PUnjab, and migrated, although thankful for the shelter of Pakistan, do not hate India as such.

Indians who visit this forum must open their eyes, and realise that the people on this forum are a random example of opinion in Pakistan, and in no way do you see such bile and vitriol as popular news forums like rediff.com

Any indian who has read any discussion on almost any topic on rediff, must admit that the attitudes of Indians and Pakistanis are not comparable.

I must stress, this jingoistic and xenophobic attitude is confined mostly to northern india, like punjab, gujrat, mahrashtra and to an extent, u.p. These are also the places where many pakistanis come from, and we do know the kind of brain washing that happens in northern indian families.

It is about time our Indian friends woke up, and said NO. No to brainwashing by parents and teachers, No to the politics of hate. No to teaching of superstitions at home, like the black cat crossed teh path, or don't sit with the langra in case you lose your leg too, don't eat from teh plate of the muslim or shudra. It all starts at home, which is a child's first school. Unless this hate is eradicated from the homes, peace can never prevail.

 

[p2prada]

P2Prada:

Your view that the vies in Pakistan are 'too extreme' but those in India are not is itself a biased and prejudiced and shall I say 'extreme' view. What you posted is basically a validation of my initial comment to you - that some Indians (most that I come in contact with in fact) are so brainwashed with the propaganda, hatred and bias they are fed in India, that they cannot but think of Pakistan as 'evil'. Disguising it under the pretext of 'only against the ISI or establishment' is a poor attempt, and you are absolutely wrong when it comes to 'only directed at the establishment' they are often directed at Muslims and Pakistanis in general - in fact your own words here' what does the avarge Pakistani think' are an insult and prejudice directed at the average Pakistani.

Batmannow's posts are in fact decent when compared to Indians on 'neutral' forums I have come across, who are far more articulate and obviously very well educated. I could take the same argument and say that based on those posts, I can only speculate how deep the hatred and brainwashing fed to the average Indian is.

To try and act self righteous and pretend that India's (or Pakistan's) shyt doesn't stink will get us nowhere. I have seen plenty of hate and ignorance about Pakistan from Indians to where I have no doubt that the problems attributed to Pakistan in terms of 'brainwashing, prejudice and hate' exist in equal amount in India.

Many people have no knowledge of pakistan because of their indifference. People in india are so used to deaths that many people dont even care to read newspaper reports on the blasts. Even newspapers when dealing with deaths in kashmir write only 20-30 words, maybe less.

EG: 6 killed in suicide attack.
Srinagar: suicide bomber kills 4 civilians and 2 soldiers in the morning during rush hour. the blast was heard 2 km away. The army is investigating the matter.


That would be it. In some corner that you might just miss.
The indian public is simply to indifferent towards terrorism now.

If u pick any english daily over the last year. You will be hard pressed to find any news about pakistan or its society(except cricket). Only because it no longer sells.

Thats the reason I said propaganda on pak is pretty much useless news in india. may readers will just see the word pak somewhere and they skip the article.

To try and act self righteous and pretend that India's (or Pakistan's) shyt doesn't stink will get us nowhere. I have seen plenty of hate and ignorance about Pakistan from Indians to where I have no doubt that the problems attributed to Pakistan in terms of 'brainwashing, prejudice and hate' exist in equal amount in India.[.QUOTE]

Yes there are many propaganda fed idiots in india. But, I was not talking about india or pakistan. I was refering to this forum itself. Some pak members of this forum have been fed too much propaganda to be actually digested.

You are talking about many other forums that have been badly moderated where indians just spew hate messages and vice versa. There is no point talking about such forums.

This is the only forum I have seen where there are so many indians. All the indians i have seen since yesterday are very moderate in their discussions while some of our pak and BD counterparts have only been spewing hate messages. The only pakistanis i know are u guys and i believe we are one of the few indians u guys know about. So, why mess up our discussions just cause of the influence of a few people.

in fact your own words here' what does the avarge Pakistani think' are an insult and prejudice directed at the average Pakistani.

No, u feel it is an insult and prejudice is because u fell thats what i meant. U cooked up only negativity in viewing that statement when it could have meant any number of things.

We have more fun making fun of our own ministers than worry about how an average pakistani lives his life.
These were my exact words. What makes u think there is a conspiracy involved. Or is it just that you thought you could justify yourself better if u could just prove all my arguments are biased by just this one point. U didnot stop to think that I would have refered to "indifference" rather than prejudice. Or maybe i was only trying to protect the soverign right of the pakistani citizen by not involving myself in his life where i have no right to be.

 

[DarkStar]

Many people have no knowledge of pakistan because of their indifference. People in india are so used to deaths that many people dont even care to read newspaper reports on the blasts. Even newspapers when dealing with deaths in kashmir write only 20-30 words, maybe less.

EG: 6 killed in suicide attack.
Srinagar: suicide bomber kills 4 civilians and 2 soldiers in the morning during rush hour. the blast was heard 2 km away. The army is investigating the matter.


That would be it. In some corner that you might just miss.
The indian public is simply to indifferent towards terrorism now.

If u pick any english daily over the last year. You will be hard pressed to find any news about pakistan or its society(except cricket). Only because it no longer sells.

Thats the reason I said propaganda on pak is pretty much useless news in india. may readers will just see the word pak somewhere and they skip the article.


To try and act self righteous and pretend that India's (or Pakistan's) shyt doesn't stink will get us nowhere. I have seen plenty of hate and ignorance about Pakistan from Indians to where I have no doubt that the problems attributed to Pakistan in terms of 'brainwashing, prejudice and hate' exist in equal amount in India.

Yes there are many propaganda fed idiots in india. But, I was not talking about india or pakistan. I was refering to this forum itself. Some pak members of this forum have been fed too much propaganda to be actually digested.

You are talking about many other forums that have been badly moderated where indians just spew hate messages and vice versa. There is no point talking about such forums.

This is the only forum I have seen where there are so many indians. All the indians i have seen since yesterday are very moderate in their discussions while some of our pak and BD counterparts have only been spewing hate messages. The only pakistanis i know are u guys and i believe we are one of the few indians u guys know about. So, why mess up our discussions just cause of the influence of a few people.



No, u feel it is an insult and prejudice is because u fell thats what i meant. U cooked up only negativity in viewing that statement when it could have meant any number of things.

We have more fun making fun of our own ministers than worry about how an average pakistani lives his life.
These were my exact words. What makes u think there is a conspiracy involved. Or is it just that you thought you could justify yourself better if u could just prove all my arguments are biased by just this one point. U didnot stop to think that I would have refered to "indifference" rather than prejudice. Or maybe i was only trying to protect the soverign right of the pakistani citizen by not involving myself in his life where i have no right to be.

You have obviously never seen NDTV, STAR Tv, Sahara, ZEE news, or any other number of gazillion channels who morning and evening spew forth hatred, accusation, innuendo, suspicion directed at Pakistan.

Hell, even when manmohan singh goes down with the flu, your media looks for the isi/pakistan connection.

Your films are obsessed with bashing our country.

I think it's about time, INdia found another object of their obsession. Because the feeling just isn't mutual.

 

[p2prada]

P2Prada:


Since you have admitted that you don't have any idea about Pakistan or Pakistanis, I would appreciate if you not continue to make these ridiculous sweeping generalizations about how "Pakistanis are worse".

I said my friends have no idea, not me. U again jumped to conclusions. All I dint know were facts and figures about pak before i started reading over the internet. Mainly cause everyday life in pakistan is not the top most topic of discussion. Your societal problems are yours. indian media has only talked about china since 9/11 and how we must catch up. the Indian media always compared chinas economy to india and always said we have a very long and tough road to try to catch up.

Your country knows a lot of the dalit problems in india ony because the indian media chooses to print them in indian papers first. Meaning the indian newspapers exist only to criticize or complain about our own needs. Either societal problems or governance. Our papers are propaganda tools at the time of need. Its not an everyday occurence.