HQ-17: A Classic Russian Missile With A New Chinese Twist

[Solomon2]

Reverse engineer? Stealing and not paying patents is the better phrase.

The Chinese say there's no such thing as stealing ideas.

The Russians themselves apply patent protections and technology-transfer guarantees rather selectively. A good example is Russia's development of jet engine technology. They obtained a few as a goodwill gesture from the Brits in the 1940s after WWII under the condition that they not be reverse-engineered nor used for military purposes. The Russians agreed to everything but once they had the engines promptly did both, explaining that since they couldn't manufacture the engines exactly and precisely to the specification of the original it wasn't a copy.

A more recent example was the construction of an American-designed truck factory in Russia during the 1970s. All its production was supposed to be for exclusively civilian purposes but a few years later the trucks were employed by the Soviet Army in Afghanistan - indeed, it was difficult to find these fine vehicles in any civilian application at all.

 

[senheiser]

The Chinese say there's no such thing as stealing ideas.

The Russians themselves apply patent protections and technology-transfer guarantees rather selectively. A good example is Russia's development of jet engine technology. They obtained a few as a goodwill gesture from the Brits in the 1940s after WWII under the condition that they not be reverse-engineered nor used for military purposes. The Russians agreed to everything but once they had the engines promptly did both, explaining that since they couldn't manufacture the engines exactly and precisely to the specification of the original it wasn't a copy.

A more recent example was the construction of an American-designed truck factory in Russia during the 1970s. All its production was supposed to be for exclusively civilian purposes but a few years later the trucks were employed by the Soviet Army in Afghanistan - indeed, it was difficult to find these fine vehicles in any civilian application at all.

dont believe american and western propaganda, they constantly want to take credit everything russia invented.
They probably will tell you next that gagarian had british roots and idiots believe it

 

[Solomon2]

dont believe american and western propaganda, they constantly want to take credit everything russia invented.
They probably will tell you next that gagarian had british roots and idiots believe it

No, German roots. But the Soviet engineering was very good - that's why the same space booster that launched Gagarin is still used today, and even the U.S. now buys Soviet/Russian engines for its own space launchers.

In war, no one cares about where the weapons came from or how it was developed. All that matters is you have weapons to kill the enemy and achieve your geopolitical goals, thats all that matters.

There are no morals in war and geopolitics.

Winner takes all.
Nice guys finish last.

Reading your words, one can feel a bit of sympathy for the Chinese who lived under the Qing and rejected Western ways, convinced that Western technology and culture would lead to a China where truth and Confucian equity would be a thing of the past. I don't think contact with the West did that; I think it was Communism and the betrayals of Mao followed by the hypocrisies of the Party. Maybe, someday, mainland Chinese will once again embrace some of the finer aspects of their culture that Mao and his successors have worked so hard to stamp out.

 

[senheiser]

No, German roots. But the Soviet engineering was very good - that's why the same space booster that launched Gagarin is still used today, and even the U.S. now buys Soviet/Russian engines for its own space launchers.

see thats what i mean by western myths, they want to take everything credit what others invented. No one questions the various eastern european roots of german and scandinavian personalities

but for russia and other eastern europeans you find various rumors trying to water down their achievements.
You can even see that on non white people, people even say djingis kahn was white

 

[Beast]

dont believe american and western propaganda, they constantly want to take credit everything russia invented.
They probably will tell you next that gagarian had british roots and idiots believe it

Russian Tu-4?

 

[Pangu]

Russian Tu-4?

And also from wikipedia: "...Sir Stafford Cripps were willing to provide technical information and a licence to manufacture the Rolls-Royce Nene centrifugal-flow jet engine. This engine was reverse-engineered and produced in modified form as the Soviet Klimov VK-1 jet engine, later incorporated into the MiG-15 (Rolls-Royce later attempted to claim £207m in licence fees, without success)."

Artem Mikoyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, when we reverse-engineer, it's called "stealing."

 

[Akasa]

Reading your words, one can feel a bit of sympathy for the Chinese who lived under the Qing and rejected Western ways, convinced that Western technology and culture would lead to a China where truth and Confucian equity would be a thing of the past. I don't think contact with the West did that; I think it was Communism and the betrayals of Mao followed by the hypocrisies of the Party. Maybe, someday, mainland Chinese will once again embrace some of the finer aspects of their culture that Mao and his successors have worked so hard to stamp out.

The rejection of the "West" had nothing to do with so-called "confucian" equity or the lack of "truth" but rather the Western countries' desire to enforce their trade policies on China; countries like Germany and the US were desperate to set up concessions within the country and ultimately did so by enforcing the respective laws of their own countries. The fear, or dislike rather, of Western culture did not stem from some supposed belief that the their culture was inherently harmful but rather the political and military threats that China was faced with and their desire to cling onto whatever economic leverage they had in the international community.

 

[Jlaw]

Reverse engineering is not easy or copy & paste like how Indians perceive it to be. It is a rather meticulous process and in some ways it can be much harder than building from a blue print. Imagine a new job where you were put in a situtation to fix someone else' work and they are not there to answer your questions and no one can help you.

 

[Beast]

Reverse engineer? Stealing and not paying patents is the better phrase.

I think you forget to read the article before you jump around... It say license produce and modify by China.

Reverse engineering is not easy or copy & paste like how Indians perceive it to be. It is a rather meticulous process and in some ways it can be much harder than building from a blue print. Imagine a new job where you were put in a situtation to fix someone else' work and they are not there to answer your questions and no one can help you.

Of cos sourgrapes will think likewise. See how much India weapon imported from others. They are running high deficient. Then they will find excuse to claim on the moral ground for such practice. The truth is they lack such technology to even replicate or make far superior system. Probably cheap,simple assault rifle.

BBC NEWS | Business | Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'

 

[Pangu]

I think you forget to read the article before you jump around... It say license produce and modify by China.


Of cos sourgrapes will think likewise. See how much India weapon imported from others. They are running high deficient. Then they will find excuse to claim on the moral ground for such practice. The truth is they lack such technology to even replicate or make far superior system. Probably cheap,simple assault rifle.

BBC NEWS | Business | Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'

WHAT! Indian copy others weapon? No wayyyyy!!!

 

[UKBengali]

I think you forget to read the article before you jump around... It say license produce and modify by China.


Of cos sourgrapes will think likewise. See how much India weapon imported from others. They are running high deficient. Then they will find excuse to claim on the moral ground for such practice. The truth is they lack such technology to even replicate or make far superior system. Probably cheap,simple assault rifle.

BBC NEWS | Business | Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'

An analogy would be that China is a university graduate who has enough knowledge but not yet the experience, and India is still a high-school student and so the base knowledge is not even there to attempt to copy.

Indians are so jealous at China's success. China has proven to the world that they are far superior to India and in the next 10-15 years the two countries would be in a totally different league. China would be an industrialised giant while India is still struggling to escape third-world status.

 

[Luftwaffe]

An analogy would be that China is a university graduate who has enough knowledge but not yet the experience, and India is still a high-school student and so the base knowledge is not even there to attempt to copy.

Indians are so jealous at China's success. China has proven to the world that they are far superior to India and in the next 10-15 the two countries would be in a totally different league. China would be an industrialised giant while India is still struggling to escape third-world status.

Someone asked you about Information on Chinese Military products and comparative analysis, well you should ask for a counter product comparative analysis of so called indigenous hindustan SAMs and ABM...you know what the reply would be lack of information, information is not leaked, oh product is so secretive.

I am not sure how even russians would give out information on their radars and the frequencies it is like screwing themselves so it is pointless for people to ask for comparison unless broad information is available and leaked or provided by developer themselves to well known Defense Magazines..

 

[cirr]

 

[LTE-TDD]

Reverse engineer? Stealing and not paying patents is the better phrase.

Are you sure you have patents? Then go and sue them!

First learn to write in English properly, then come back.

Are you pay the patent for English?

 

[Zarvan]

HQ-17: A Classic Russian Missile With A New Chinese Twist


View attachment 25766
HQ-17 in Guangzhou Military Region
The HQ-17, while a copy of the Tor-M1, has important differences including a new IFF array on top of an electronically scanned radar; those modern electronics make it well suited for 21st air defense against cruise missiles and close air support attack aircraft.
CCTV 7

HQ-17 Surface to Air Missile
The HQ-17 may have a short range, but manufacturer claims for its Tor-M1 relative claim that it has a 90% probably of destroying cruise missiles.
CCTV 7
The Tor M1 “SA-15 Gauntlet” is a 12km ranged Russian air defense missile specifically designed to attack enemy fighters, helicopters, smart bombs and cruise missile; China has bought at least 25 vehicles. Its Chinese license production is designated HQ-17 with key differences including an indigenous all terrain tracked launcher, a new Identify Friend Foe (IFF) antenna on top the search radar, electronically scanned radars for better performance against enemy jamming, and ability to datalink with other Chinese systems. The HQ-17 is rugged enough to keep up with frontline units like tank battalions, as seen here with the 41st Group Army in Guangzhou Province, and protect them from helicopter and drone attacks. At the same time, its vertically launched missiles allows the Tor M1/HQ-17 to engage multiple cruise missiles like the American Tomahawk or Taiwanese HF-IIE aimed at Chinese command and control infrastructure.

@Dem!god @chak de INDIA @Roybot @Indischer @arp2041
@thesolar65 @DRAY @Srinivas @kaykay @Chanakya's_Chant
Nobody doubts my intention behind posting this thread.Its a classic "know your enemy" thread,which I think I am allowed.
@Emmie @Chinese-Dragon
Any objection??

Some reports suggest that Pakistan is also testing these