How you rank your identities

[sbh02]

@sbh02 @Divergent1
Well answer this as you have thanked @Proudpakistaniguy for his post.

The Muslims killing other Muslims, or killing non-Muslims are condemned by the masses.

You might have noticed, even in this thread, there are Pakistan (such as myself), who have openly stated that our national identity takes precedence over our religious one. We are secular Pakistanis, secular Muslims.

There are Pakistanis who admit that they are Muslims first, and Pakistanis second. In their eyes, these are not completely distinct categories.

However, the Indian members have called themselves Indians first, even though they might support the Hindutva agenda of the BJP. It's a contradiction, because they should be supporting the rights of their Indian Muslim brethren over their Hindu values. But that's not the case.

I can understand secular Hindus (Congress supporters) calling themselves Indians first, but not BJP supporters who support Hindutva.

 

[padamchen]

All indians will say Indian first here but reality is opposite. If you consider youself Indian first then klling or punishing others Indian over beef or riots between Hindu or Muslim dont make sense as they prove that you are Hindu first before Indian..Honour of cow is more important than life of non hindus Indians but then for most of them

Indian nationalism is actually Hindu nationalism

You are right.

A sanghi or an Islamist can never be an Indian first.

There is always a "but" in there somewhere.

 

[Divergent]

1) Human First
2) Muslim
3) First Nationality + Pakistani
4) English
5) Urdu
6) Lady (Sinatra to Pac)
7) Internationalist

Have a fab day

 

[M. Sarmad]

How being "human" an identity?

The dumbest posts I've ever seen.

Burgers trying to be "humanists"

Read the Holy Qur'an, bro. Muslims don't have monopoly over salvation. The message of the Holy Qur'an is universal, it's for entire humanity. The Qur'an addresses human beings (Humankind) directly more than 300 times, and indirectly more than two thousand times.. "Muslims" have been addressed directly less than fifty times. The Qur'an recognizes the idea of common human origin and ancestry at four different places. "Oneness of human beings" is one of the most important messages of the Qur'an. The Qur'an makes it clear that Allah has made humans into different nations and tribes for the purpose of identification only and that no nation/ethnicity is superior to another .. and that the most honored of humans in the sight of Allah are those who are most righteous. The Qur'an places great emphasis on the dignity of human beings regardless of their gender or race. And the Holy Qur'an strongly advocates justice and equality; absolute equality of mankind ...


Therefore, the message/belief that "Humanity is above all nations, Humanity is above all religion" is perfectly in line with Quranic teachings.

 

[Spring Onion]

Atheist
Capitalist
Globalist

There is NO such thing called atheist

 

[Divergent]

The Muslims killing other Muslims, or killing non-Muslims are condemned by the masses.

You might have noticed, even in this thread, there are Pakistan (such as myself), who have openly stated that our national identity takes precedence over our religious one. We are secular Pakistanis, secular Muslims.

There are Pakistanis who admit that they are Muslims first, and Pakistanis second. In their eyes, these are not completely distinct categories.

However, the Indian members have called themselves Indians first, even though they might support the Hindutva agenda of the BJP. It's a contradiction, because they should be supporting the rights of their Indian Muslim brethren over their Hindu values. But that's not the case.

I can understand secular Hindus (Congress supporters) calling themselves Indians first, but not BJP supporters who support Hindutva.

You got me covered

 

[hussain0216]

Muslim (trust in God is the only thing that can save us)

Pakistan

The rest is balls

 

[M. Sarmad]

... there are Pakistan (such as myself), who have openly stated that our national identity takes precedence over our religious one. We are secular Pakistanis, secular Muslims.


There are Pakistanis who admit that they are Muslims first, and Pakistanis second. In their eyes, these are not completely distinct categories.

This confusion has its roots in our political history. During the struggle for the freedom from the British Rule, the most important issue which concerned Muslim Scholars (and political activists) was about the national and religious identity of Indian Muslims and their position in the Hindu-majority future India ...


Hussain Ahmed Madani (The Rector of Darul Uloom Deoband) and many others advocated "Composite Nationalism", (i.e. despite cultural, linguistic and religious differences, the people of India were but one nation). The proponents of composite nationalism believed/argued that this idea was consistent with the teachings of the Holy Quran and that the Prophet (PBUH) himself had set a practical example of Composite Nationalism when he signed the Constitution of Medina (Meesaq-e-Medina)



Then there were those who advocated the idea of "Muslim Nationalism in India" ... This idea formed the basis of the Two Nation Theory ... This idea/theory implies/implied that We were Muslims before being Indian ... And We were Indian before being (Non-Indian) Muslim ... This theory created and propounded by modernist and reformist Muslims (like Sir Syed) was inspired by Western Political Theories (of John Lock, Thomas Paine, Milton etc.).... It in a way advocated a Pan-Islamism that was restricted by geographical boundaries of the Nation state (of India, and now Pakistan).


And there were others (like Maududi) who were of the view that neither Composite Nationalism nor Muslim Nationalism were Islamic in their orientation, therefore, they warned the Muslims of the sub-continent to be beware of both. Few of them advocated "Pan-Islamism"



I believe the Pakistani nationalist ideology is very unique, and (for the Pakistani Muslims at least) Pakistani Nationalism and Islam are not mutually exclusive ..... I for one do not prioritize a Pakistani identity over Muslim identity (or vice versa). But there are those who claim to be Pakistani First, and then there are those who say that they are Muslim First. Both these claims are consistent with TNT as the TNT has both ingredients; Pan-Islamic and Nationalist. But as it is Pan-Islamism that is restricted by the Nation State boundary (and not the other way around), "Pakistani First" is the more valid position.



Mr. Intizar Hussain, recognized as a living-legend in Pakistan, referring to these ideological differences, commented:


“It dawned on me that the tussle between nationalists coming out with the slogan ‘Pakistan first’ and the Islamic extremists demanding Pakistan’s solidarity with the Taliban in Afghanistan had behind a history dating back to Sir Syed’s time”.(Dawn News, 4 Nov 2001)

 

[third eye]

However, the Indian members have called themselves Indians first, even though they might support the Hindutva agenda of the BJP. It's a contradiction, because they should be supporting the rights of their Indian Muslim brethren over their Hindu values. But that's not the case.

You people are mixing up. Just because an Indian says he is an Indian first does not mean he is a Bhakt or a BJP supporter or supports what the BJP does.

I have forever been asserting that I am an Indian first - always & everytime - even when the Congress was in majority. This did not imply that I supported the Congress's policies.

Being an Indian first implies that the Nation & its interests come 1st , all other considerations second & these include religion too.

In a team game the team has to play according to the game plan devised by the Captain & Coach. If the plan is flawed the Captain and / or Coach must change so that the team wins.

The party in the chair has to perform & meet the aspirations of those who elected it, should it not they will be shown the door like those before it.

I hope this helps.

 

[Kathin_Singh]

My Priorities
1. Indian
2. Yadav
3. Hindu
4. Uttar Pradesh

Last one: Human (This identity may come to top of the list if Humans are attacked by aliens from far far galaxy )

 

[SouI]

-Secular
-Turkish
-Capitalist
-Realist
-Everything else
-mozlem

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

To those who have written Human as first rank.

How would you justify killing and rape of Bengali by the Pakistan Army in 1971? Were those Bengali not Humans?

Did you bring this up purely out of spite?

 

[ayesha.a]

All indians will say Indian first here but reality is opposite. If you consider youself Indian first then klling or punishing others Indian over beef or riots between Hindu or Muslim dont make sense as they prove that you are Hindu first before Indian..Honour of cow is more important than life of non hindus Indians but then for most of them

Indian nationalism is actually Hindu nationalism

Maybe the Indians commenting here have not rioted or killed anybody over cows? You know, like the vast majority of Indians? Isn't that a possibility?

 

[salarsikander]

province

No, I condemn Indian govt for forcefully subjugating the Indian kashmiri. Chinese clearly state that they don't recognise any religion where as India does

 

[Spring Onion]

To those who have written Human as first rank.

How would you justify killing and rape of Bengali by the Pakistan Army in 1971? Were those Bengali not Humans?

@sbh02 @PaklovesTurkiye @Proudpakistaniguy @Divergent1

Killing and rape and sexual assaults are all human traits irrespective of Pakistan, India or Bay of Bengal.

I am just trying to expose the hypocrisy. If one has not ranked Humans as the first rank, there is no need to answer that question. I can understand their answer. But if they have ranked being Human as the first criteria , then they either condemn the massacre or drop down from the moral high horse.

=========================================================

2. To those who have written being Muslim as the first rank.

Do you condemn Chinese government for restricting religious rights of Uighur Muslims in Xinxiang province? for e.g. Ban on Ramzan fasting

3. To those who have written being Pakistani as the first rank.

How do you justifies leaving Biharis in Bangladesh who have fought alongside Pakistani Army against Mukti Bahini during Fall of Dhaka in 1971?

2. Yes we do condemn restriction of religious rights of Chinese Muslims.

3. Again selfishness is a human trait. And wearing your nationality as your first identity does not mean that you would not be selfish. Pakistani politicians and Pakistan as a state failed to help those east Pakistanis just like your Indian government failed to protect your own Indian Muslims against lynching over cows.