How to counter tactical nukes?

[farhan_9909]

I am not in favour of tactical nukes,infact i am not even in favour of Pakistan Nuclear doctrine wrt to India.

If we can't defend ourselves conventionally against a timid country like india,we should not even exist than

 

[thesameguy]

I am not in favour of tactical nukes,infact i am not even in favour of Pakistan Nuclear doctrine wrt to India.

If we can't defend ourselves conventionally against a timid country like india,we should not even exist than

You are an idiot . That's all I can say

 

[Yoddha]

Ever heard the phrase.."Barking dogs seldom bite"?

Mate..it's been your leaders who were doing the barking recently about nuking India.

 

[thesameguy]

To add Injury to the insult Nasr has different types of warheads as can be seen in this pic

 

[Bad Guy]

Pakistan also have city busting nukes

No they have not.
Check facts before trolling here. pakistan has barely 3-4 nuclear reactor and those also based on early concepts. At least don't lie..

actical nukes will not be used on Indian civilians but Army alone.

Impossible, even a baby nuke yield hurts civilians.

If in reply India wants to start a Nuclear holocaust involving civilians,that wont go down well.

First make them pass through our multi layered anti missile shield.
India is a triad nuclear and posses second strike capability. In case of conventional conflict, pak may survive but in nuclear when India will launch nukes from air, land and water, we can easily think about the beautiful landscape.

 

[Nilgiri]

Everyone (especially pak trolls) are forgetting that T-72 and up have boronated armour + NBC liners....that stopped Western development of tactical neutron bombs dead in its tracks in the 70s and 80s when they conducted tests on neutron transport through armour. The literature is out there for those interested.

Even if the ballistic trajectory of the Nasr is not intercepted by whatever SAM system India deploys with its mechanized cavalry (and thats already a big if)....the impact of the kill radius is severely mitigated by the relevant Tank armour itself....leading it to be probably not much more or even equal to the blast/thermal radius.

Combine this with the sheer inefficiency of fissile material use per yield and the strong probability (if you look at previous threads on the matter) that the Nasr's yield is no more than 1 kt at most given the volume considerations + lack of Gen 2 or Gen 3 linear implosion design available to Pakistan.....then it is safe to say that this is not anywhere close to being any sort of game changer (especially in the numbers that they would need to be deployed to have a footprint even theoretically, taking material away from the strategic arsenal in the process)....and one that is even more easily countered by India in the long run.

The T-72/T-90 boronated armour + ERA tiles + NBC liner is already fielded. Better SAMs would simply keep the spear of the tank formation unsullied for even longer.....and the waste of nuclear material in the Nasrs if they are used....means fewer strategic warheads for India to worry about too. Literally every soldier that dies from the Nasr (those that even make it through) saves thousands+ of civilians each. Basically India should do nothing to stop Pakistan fielding as many Nasrs as they want....even in the worst case scenario of the 5kt claim, India can simply test the neutron flux against the doped + standard armour profiles that are needed to assure a certain standard of mitigation in the armoured formations.

The real threat from Pakistan emanates from the Babur cruise missile with Terrain hugging features for use of strategic warheads. I would assume India is working on specific modules regarding their AWACS in countering even this. I can explain how these methods work to some degree if anyone is interested.

 

[thesameguy]

Everyone (especially pak trolls) are forgetting that T-72 and up have boronated armour + NBC liners....that stopped Western development of tactical neutron bombs dead in its tracks in the 70s and 80s when they conducted tests on neutron transport through armour. The literature is out there for those interested.

Even if the ballistic trajectory of the Nasr is not intercepted by whatever SAM system India deploys with its mechanized cavalry (and thats already a big if)....the impact of the kill radius is severely mitigated by the relevant Tank armour itself....leading it to be probably not much more or even equal to the blast/thermal radius.

Combine this with the sheer inefficiency of fissile material use per yield and the strong probability (if you look at previous threads on the matter) that the Nasr's yield is no more than 1 kt at most given the volume considerations + lack of Gen 2 or Gen 3 linear implosion design available to Pakistan.....then it is safe to say that this is not anywhere close to being any sort of game changer (especially in the numbers that they would need to be deployed to have a footprint even theoretically, taking material away from the strategic arsenal in the process)....and one that is even more easily countered by India in the long run.

The T-72/T-90 boronated armour + ERA tiles + NBC liner is already fielded. Better SAMs would simply keep the spear of the tank formation unsullied for even longer.....and the waste of nuclear material in the Nasrs if they are used....means fewer strategic warheads for India to worry about too. Literally every soldier that dies from the Nasr (those that even make it through) saves thousands+ of civilians each. Basically India should do nothing to stop Pakistan fielding as many Nasrs as they want....even in the worst case scenario of the 5kt claim, India can simply test the neutron flux against the doped + standard armour profiles that are needed to assure a certain standard of mitigation in the armoured formations.

The real threat from Pakistan emanates from the Babur cruise missile with Terrain hugging features for use of strategic warheads. I would assume India is working on specific modules regarding their AWACS in countering even this. I can explain how these methods work to some degree if anyone is interested.

The baronated armour you are harping about was never conclusively proven to stop high energy neutrons. it was just a theory and remains a theory.

Plus you keep repeating Ge-1 Gen-2 and lack of it. How can you be so sure Pakistan hasn't got these 1980s era research facility in 2015?

 

[Hephaestus]

Nasar is supposed to drop within 10km of Border (inside Pakistani territory in case bhartiies are able to cross the border), Are you going to deploy Iron Dom in Pakistan to counter it?

No. Say bye bye to Karachi then.

S-400 and other AAD's will protect Mumbai and Delhi anyways.

What or who will protect Lahore, Pindi, Islamabad from our nukes.

But, interesting point. What will be your threshold.... I mean Lahore is anyways not far.

So, hypothetical scenario - say we are near Lahore (not easy by any means... play along please) ... so are you gonna burst one near Lahore ??

 

[gslv mk3]

I don't think indian army has any martial experience but Pak army has....I would suggest try first....Kiddo do you know about something called training and exercise.

 

[SR-91]

Nasar is supposed to drop within 10km of Border (inside Pakistani territory in case bhartiies are able to cross the border), Are you going to deploy Iron Dom in Pakistan to counter it?

Nope, that's why we made Pinaka.....can take out anything less than 40km.
Pinaka II under construction....will cover everything till 60km.
We got smerch.
Anything longer, we have Prahaar, highly accurate... will take out anything less than 150km...by the way this guy cover 150km in less than 4mins.

N we have plenty more.....u already know what BrahMos will do...........n this guy will cover 150 km in less than 2 mins...........won't even have the time finish smoking that cigarette.

 

[Kinetic]

No India does not have Tacticla nukes as they are difficult to build. the prroof is that there is no Indian missile built to carry Tactical nukes. Even Prithvi has 500Kg warhead capacity which is not Tactical,

Difficult to build??? More difficult the hydrogen bomb? Pathetic idiot.


Here are the options:

1) Complete and swift air superiority over Pakistan airspace. With S-400, MRSAM and Akash aided by IAF.
2) Massive special operation forces raiding ground stations from sky.
3) Heavy penetration bombing on all possible military storages.
4) Electronic and neutron bombs.
5) Early intelligence.


Combination of all this will make it possible. Also Pakistan is a small country. That is one advantage.

 

[SR-91]

Hi,

Tactical nucs was the reason that a super power like the U S did not invade Cuba----I will just leave it at that.

Sir ji, they didn't have any credible missile defense at that time.

 

[Nilgiri]

The baronated armour you are harping about was never conclusively proven to stop high energy neutrons. it was just a theory and remains a theory.

The properties of Boron are well known. Thats why control rods in Nuclear reactors have been made from Boron or Boron alloys ever since the dawn of the nuclear age.

The Harris/Gsponer paper (one was Head at the Stanford Linear Accelerator, the other a physicist at CERN) is just one of many that talk about why the West abandoned the neutron tactical doctrine given the simple yet effective NBC liners the Soviets adopted.

Neutron transport is slowed through multiple layers of regular armour and is then absorbed by the Boron liner. The Soviets themselves tested it and adopted it. You can find the relevant papers and discussions on tank.net and other dedicated armour forums, specifically about the high energy neutrons you talk about. Composite armour is quite good at countering them form the tests the US did on Chobham and Ducrete.

Plus you keep repeating Ge-1 Gen-2 and lack of it. How can you be so sure Pakistan hasn't got these 1980s era research facility in 2015?

We talked about this on the other thread. Lets just agree to disagree.

 

[HariPrasad]

if India is attacked with tactical Nuke than we must grab this opportunity to destroy total Nuke capability of pakistan. This mean all Nuke plants , all nuke storage locations, and all possible Nuke Missile storage sites.

 

[Maarkhoor]

if India is attacked with tactical Nuke than we must grab this opportunity to destroy total Nuke capability of pakistan. This mean all Nuke plants , all nuke storage locations, and all possible Nuke Missile storage sites.

Waoo and who will tell you all the info ? only the dumbest can think like that even US not possessed the technology / courage to destroy all the nuclear weapons of Pakistan.