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How the Iranian conservatives claim that Wilayat-e-Faqih is "Democratic"?

the british democracy queen also used to claim to get her legitimacy from god... that means no man can challenge her.

at least Iranian leaders have to work their way up thru a system. it takes a competent and very intelligent person to actually work their way up the system.

the only achievement of the great british monarch is simply being born.

just another indoctrinated moron. Thinking only western democracyz is real democracyz

putin, chavez = dictatorship

Mansour hadi = real democracy that requires American bombs to enforce. no Iranian system will ever get recognized as a democracy until it becomes a slave of the American/Zionist world order
 
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im the last thing from a "conservative". infact backward conservativeness is the biggest long term threat to the Iranian government in my opinion..

Im looking at the bigger picture.. the propaganda narrative that westerns domcracyzzz is best. which is ridiculous. Their "democracy" is highly artiifical. a rigged system that ensures the establishment continues and people have very little power to actually do anything about it..

also this system doesn't work for everybody. you think china would be china today without the communist party? they were everybodies plaything on the brink of disintegtration before they took over. and are in the process of turning the country into superpower. You think democracyz would have achieved that? stop falling for western propaganda..

im not even a muslim. but id take a no-nonsense mullah like Khamenei that can safeguard Iranian soveringty, dignity and independence any day of the week to some feminist gay worshipping supposed democracyz system that would put the interests of their American masters before iran..

as long as the American empire is a threat to iran, western democracyz will not work.. it might even mean the disintegration of the country (a wet dream of Zionists to permanently weaken potential enemies)



the indoctrinated moron here is you...

the only "democracy" western propaganda accepts are the ones that are slaves to the americans. any democracy that doesn't vote the way Washington likes gets branded a dictatorship...

Vladimir putin, and hugo chavez. 2 extremely popular leaders that got democratically elected and have more support among their people then any western puppet can dream about.. but those 2 guys are routinely described as "dictators" by the western propaganda engines..

now be a good lil sheep and go read some more CNN/BBC/etc...
You mean you don't like to read? or can't read? Figures.
Let's see how 'your' democracy fairs:
  • Who are your friends again? Russia (hardly), China (doubtful), N. Korea, Venezuela. Great democracies indeed.
  • How do you treat your women? Third class with hardly any rights.
  • How do you treat your minorities? Let's not get in to that argument.
  • How do you fair in economic or human development?
Oh, at least I can read CNN/BBC/CNBC/etc. The government does NOT, and can NOT, block me from reading a different narrative, which is more than I can say about IRI. And BTW, I can say F*ck Donald Trump. Can you say that about your supreme leader? I doubt that. You'll end up in some dungeon with your head cut off, after months of solitary confinement and torture.
Let's see whether you can become a beacon of hope for the dispossessed (the US is still the no 1 destination including those from IRI btw).
Name one positive thing that IRI is known for globally? Just one. Not the people of Iran but the Islamic Republic. I can name plenty positives about US (as well as plenty negatives), but I'll like to hear a one positive attribute of IRI.
 
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You mean you don't like to read? or can't read? Figures.
Let's see how 'your' democracy fairs:
  • Who are your friends again? Russia (hardly), China (doubtful), N. Korea, Venezuela. Great democracies indeed.
  • How do you treat your women? Third class with hardly any rights.
  • How do you treat your minorities? Let's not get in to that argument.
  • How do you fair in economic or human development?
Oh, at least I can read CNN/BBC/CNBC/etc. The government does NOT, and can NOT, block me from reading a different narrative, which is more than I can say about IRI. And BTW, I can say F*ck Donald Trump. Can you say that about your supreme leader? I doubt that. You'll end up in some dungeon with your head cut off, after months of solitary confinement and torture.
Let's see whether you can become a beacon of hope for the dispossessed (the US is still the no 1 destination including those from IRI btw).
Name one positive thing that IRI is known for globally? Just one. Not the people of Iran but the Islamic Republic. I can name plenty positives about US (as well as plenty negatives), but I'll like to hear a one positive attribute of IRI.

they say in any society. if you want to find out who is really in charge; you need to look at who you are not allowed to criticize. in iran its Khamenei. in the US and her western democracyz its the Zionists. nobody dares say anything against them. even questioning the holohoax lands in you jail in some free democracyzzz..

save your libertyz for yourself and say ef trump as much as you want. doesn't change the fact that the people do not control the government. it takes about a billion dollars to run a presidential campaign. unless your a billionaire like trump, You need whore yourself out and become the puppets of a lot of established lobby groups and power centres to even think about running for president. Even then as Hillary showed against sanders. if you have the connections, you will win.

and to name positives about the IR. I will give you 1 word. independence. Iran is not a vassal state. one of the few countries on earth with that freedom. And its a priceless freedom that Zionists/americans who control many of the levers of the world economy will make sure to punish you for (if they don't have military options that is)

even by the enemies own admission iran is becoming the regional hegemon. Name me a puppet American vassal that could achieve that?

Long live the Islamic republic of iran
 
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as I said, first you give this right at least for once to your people, then come and ask us for yearly constitution elections!

This right of people is already present there in the Western countries. There may be some minor flaws in the system like usage of money etc. but basics are already there and if people are determined then collecting even 1 Billion USD is not difficult.

Iranian elections are more than any other country. also we don't allow money oriented campaigns like those in corrupted western countries.

In the western countries, people have enough money to go to the polls. It is not so bad as you are trying to present it here and then hiding the dictatorial system of Wilayat behind it.

give me one example in which a country has allowed it's people to choose the type of system.
you can't, cause there is none.

A very lame excuse.

In the western countries, whenever people are choosing the parliament, then they are also voting for the "System" at the same time, while the people's elected parliament has the full right to change the system at any time. While Iranian system is void of this freedom in the hands of the people's elected parliament. Faqih came once in power, and they this choice was taken away from the people to either to continue this system or to change it.


Guess who came to power after the 8 years of Reformist's governance. the same thing will happen again, when people realized what Reformists promised was utter lie and nothing more.

Good.
If conservatives come to the power through polls, they are welcome.
But what if people don't like to continue the system of Wilayat? Why not then give them their choice and right to choose the system for themselves through the polls? You have usurped this right of the people.

Yeah, Conservatives were so weak that Rouhani was thinking it's better to not participate for another round!
Open your eyes and see the realities.
Whatever Rouhani thought (according to you) could not be presented as proof, but the only proof is the vote of the people in the elections who chose them by casting even more than 50% votes, and you blame them to be the traitors.



these are some of the British dictator authorities:
remove or appoint the prime minister or any other minister,
choosing all members of the house of Lords (poor commons, such a barbaric naming)
disbanding the parliament,
should approve and sign all of the government and parliament bills,
disband of Australia parliament and governor!!! and the rest of colonies.
approve or cancelling of U.K international agreements.
all laws are applied under her name.
has the full control of army, they are even called Royal army to make sure no one would forget who is the boss!
approving of the foreign policies.
appoints the highest judiciary authority and approves all judiciary laws.
even appoints the highest cleric in U.K
ownership of all national resources, even animals in the parks, ownership of all museums and historical heritages.

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE DICTATORSHIP.

Your whole blames go down with the simple fact that if the majority of people of UK want to take away the system of kingship, then they are totally free to do it through the polls.
But if the people of UK want to see the continuation of the system of kingship, then they have full liberty to this.

Similarly, if in the polls people of Iran choose Wilayat system, then there will be no objection. But basic problem of Iran is this that the system of Wilayat is now above the choice and right of Iranian people and neither direct polls could take place to counter it, nor the parliament has any power to challenge it.

Secondly, I find it really sad that conservatives always come with the UK system, while they want to deceive themselves and the people in name of the Queen. While there are tens of other democracies in the Europe who has nothing to do with the Kingship, but they are ignored by the conservatives while those democracies don't suit to their propaganda tactics.


Iranian have voted to this Islamic Republic system, but I know you can't understand the meaning of vote or democracy.
Please stop blaming me.
Whole world is blaming present Wilayat system to be a dictatorship in the absence of people's right to change it through polls.
What to talk about whole world, majority of Iranian people themselves are fed up of it and voting for the Reformist traitors against the patriotic conservatives. You just have to open your eyes to see the TRUTH.

Im looking at the bigger picture.. the propaganda narrative that westerns domcracyzzz is best. which is ridiculous. Their "democracy" is highly artiifical. a rigged system that ensures the establishment continues and people have very little power to actually do anything about it..

Have you heard this: "Something is better than nothing"? There may not be 100% ideal situation, but for sure western system is much more democratic than the present Wilayat system, which is far far away from being democratic but lies more in the domain of dictatorship. Not only the world, but also the majority of Iranian people seems to be fed up with it.

also this system doesn't work for everybody. you think china would be china today without the communist party? they were everybodies plaything on the brink of disintegtration before they took over. and are in the process of turning the country into superpower. You think democracyz would have achieved that? stop falling for western propaganda..

No doubt that Dictatorship sometimes achieve a lot. Just look at Stalin who killed millions of people, but at the same time converted Russia into the Super power. Or just look at Hitler too, who also converted Germany into the super power.

Now another question arises, if the Chinese communist system is so ideal to convert China into the super power, then why not to eliminate the Wilayat system in Iran and replace it with the communist system of China? Why the Wilayat system of Iran failed to convert Iran into the super power?

Brother, things are very SIMPLE if you really want to comprehend. There is nothing wrong If Wilayat system gets the approval of the people through the polls. It will only make the Wilayat System stronger and thus help in the development of Iran. But if people see Wilayat system not suitable for them, then they should have full right to eliminate this system and the conservatives have no right to keep it imposing upon the majority.


im not even a muslim. but id take a no-nonsense mullah like Khamenei that can safeguard Iranian soveringty, dignity and independence any day of the week to some feminist gay worshipping supposed democracyz system that would put the interests of their American masters before iran..

Once again, Khaminei could do it much better if the polls suggest that people of Iran supports him. So nothing wrong for going to the polls.
But if Khamenei and the conservatives usurp the right of people to vote, then Khamenei could not safeguard the rights of people of Iran. Just look at the world where Iran's impression is successfully made bad by citing the Wilayat e Faqih dictatorship.
Hence, you could only give strength to the Wilayat system and ultimately Iran if you go to the polls. And if people reject it, then surely this system has to be eliminated.
 
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where did you hear this joke?!
the one who has no power is the prime minister but even that puppet is chosen/approved by the British dictator.


U.K doesn't even have a constitution.

Believe me, as someone who lives here, this is false. If the monarch even tried to block a prime minister from taking office, the monarch would be deposed and the powers of the next further restricted. Every semblance of power that the monarchy has is purely ceremonial.

It is true that the UK doesn't have a written constitution. They have an unwritten constitution which has the same effect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom
 
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Despite being a democracy, still the image of Iran is ruined due to the system of non democratic Wilayat-e-Faqih.

Actions speak louder than words. Wilayat-e-Faqih in Iran AND democracy in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt ...
 
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Actions speak louder than words. Wilayat-e-Faqih in Iran AND democracy in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt ...

Brother, it is not the system of democracy which has to be blamed in Pakistan, but the system of Corruption which has to be blamed.

Our topic is entirely different than "corruption", and it is the "Dictatorship" VS "Right of People to Choose".

Conservatives have full liberty to do the "Tableegh" and convince the people of Iran for "Wilayat e Faqih" system. But despite their Tableegh if people reject this system, then it is pure dictatorship to still keep on imposing the Wilayat e Faqih system upon them by force.

If in Referendum, Khamenei wins, then it will give legitimacy to this system and make Iran stronger to represent itself in the world. But in the absence of referendum, this system has got no legitimacy and at present this system is only harming the Iran's image and damaging Iran's interests.

If you believe that majority of Iranians do support Wilayat e Faqih, then why not go to the polls for the legitimacy and safeguard the Iranian image and Iranian interests through this referendum? But if the people of Iran reject it, then are you ready to eliminate this system or do you still want to impose this system by force?
 
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This right of people is already present there in the Western countries. There may be some minor flaws in the system like usage of money etc. but basics are already there and if people are determined then collecting even 1 Billion USD is not difficult.

In the western countries, people have enough money to go to the polls. It is not so bad as you are trying to present it here and then hiding the dictatorial system of Wilayat behind it.

In the western countries, whenever people are choosing the parliament, then they are also voting for the "System" at the same time, while the people's elected parliament has the full right to change the system at any time. While Iranian system is void of this freedom in the hands of the people's elected parliament. Faqih came once in power, and they this choice was taken away from the people to either to continue this system or to change it.

What to talk about whole world, majority of Iranian people themselves are fed up of it and voting for the Reformist traitors against the patriotic conservatives. You just have to open your eyes to see the TRUTH.
in western countries every filthy corrupted man can attend the race and they do control everything, their elections is nothing more than "who can spend more" game! want to prevent a pro-Iran guy in power? no problem, let the the corrupted media (controlled by the same corrupted rich people) say Iranian are terrorists, advertise ISIS and the rest of west backed terrorists as moderate freedom fighters and job is done, people will vote to the one you want.

Iranian Velayat Faqih is 100% democratic, people choose a parliament known as Assembly of Experts and members of this parliament choose the supreme leader.
if people want a change all they need to do is to choose pro-west representatives and ask them to put pressure on the leader or even change him, but that doesn't happen, cause regardless of what they voted for Parliament or presidency, they always choose conservatives for the Assembly of Experts, the fact remains that pro-west Hashemi couldn't gain enough votes to become the chief of this assembly.

even though Reformists don't care about Velayat-Faqih concept, yet they always express their support for him, cause they know Velayat-Faqih is the red line for the absolute majority of Iranian.
for people like you it's easier and more appeasing to believe the lies of your Queen's puppet BBC, rather than opening your eyes to the realities, whether in Iran or U.K.

Believe me, as someone who lives here, this is false. If the monarch even tried to block a prime minister from taking office, the monarch would be deposed and the powers of the next further restricted. Every semblance of power that the monarchy has is purely ceremonial.

It is true that the UK doesn't have a written constitution. They have an unwritten constitution which has the same effect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom
It is said, the Bigger the Lie, the More People Believe It.

You say this dictator's power is ceremonial while in reality they didn't hesitate to even disband the Australian government and Parliament!

who has the authority to depose the monarch? no one.
we live in the 21 century, the rules of game has changes, you don't rule people by your army but by your media, the media which are controlled by that dictator. PressTV made a document about U.K queen and immediately they banned it's broadcast in U.K.

she doesn't need to choose for example the prime minister directly to keep her policies in place, her media does the job, they advertise for the policies which she desires and against those whom she rejects.

beside indirect ways of controlling the power, some of her authorities are monopoly and so blunt that you can't call them ceremonial, some like:
choosing all members of the house of lords,
choosing the head of judiciary system,
choosing the head of church (deputy to herself!),
choosing the prime minister when there is no majority house of commons
 
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in western countries every filthy corrupted man can attend the race and they do control everything, their elections is nothing more than "who can spend more" game!
As I already stated, you are obviously making "minor" problems as "mega" problems and then denying the whole system.

Every one accepts that western system is not "100%" perfect, but still the best on the grounds. Obama was no Billionaire, but still he became president of US. Merkel of Germany is also not a Billionaire, but still she became the Chancellor. You have to open your eyes and you will see series of people who were not Billionaire, but came through the western democratic system.

The worst "permanent" behaviour from the conservatives (from all types and religions) is this that they first find one small fault in the opponent, and then deny the rest 100% blindly. It is not called "justice".


Iranian Velayat Faqih is 100% democratic, people choose a parliament known as Assembly of Experts and members of this parliament choose the supreme leader.

Again this is that behaviour from the conservatives, which make others to hate them. How could "Assembly of Experts" become democratic?

You gave the following link about "Assembly of Experts": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_of_Experts_for_Leadership

According to your own given link:
//
The Assembly of Experts (Persian: مجلس خبرگان رهبری‎, translit. Majles-e Khobregān-e Rahbari‎) —also translated as the Assembly of Experts of the Leadership or as the Council of Experts— is the deliberative body empowered to designate and dismiss the Supreme Leader of Iran.[2][3] However all directly-elected members after the vetting process by the Guardian Council, still have to be approved by the Supreme Leader of Iran before gaining membership to the Assembly of Experts.[4][5]

All candidates to the Assembly of Experts must be approved by the Guardian Council whose members are, in turn, appointed either directly or indirectly by the Supreme Leader.[6] The Assembly consists of eighty eight Mujtahids that are elected (after approval by Supreme Leader[7][8] ) from lists of thoroughly vetted candidates by direct public vote for eight-year terms.
//

Therefore:

(1) The first building block is "Guardian Council" which is itself a "non democratic" body. It does not consists of "Iranian People", but only upon the "88 Religious Mujtahids" which are themselves appointed directly or indirectly by the Wali Faqih, who vets the list by kicking out all those who are not loyal to him.
So what to talk about the Iranian people, this Guardian Council even does not consist of Mujthids who have opposing views.

(2) The second building block is "Assembly of Experts" which is again totally "non democratic" body while the loyalist of Faqih (i.e. Guardian Council) only permits those people to take part as candidates, which are loyal to Wilayat e Faqih system. Even it was not enough, but the members of Assembly of Experts also have to be get the approval of Khameni too.
How in the world then Assemly of Experts could ever go against Khamenei when they have been themselves approved by Khamenei?


if people want a change all they need to do is to choose pro-west representatives and ask them to put pressure on the leader or even change him, but that doesn't happen, cause regardless of what they voted for Parliament or presidency, they always choose conservatives for the Assembly of Experts, the fact remains that pro-west Hashemi couldn't gain enough votes to become the chief of this assembly.

How in the world Iranian people could choose those candidates who are oppose to Wilayat-e-Faqih system when Guardian Council does not let any such person become even the "Candidate" for the Assembly of Expert?

Things are very clear brother. It is really sad to see the behaviour of conservatives when they bring the lamest excuses for their exercise of oppression.

even though Reformists don't care about Velayat-Faqih concept, yet they always express their support for him,

What else could the reformists do in this dictatorial system of Wilayat e Faqih. They could not be blamed while they are compelled to do so even in order to get the nomination for becoming candidate.

Wilayat e Faqih system is no different that Saddam's Baath party system where only Baath party choose their leader. And here same hand picked "Mujtahids" of Guardian Council picking candidates for Assembly of Experts.
 
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she doesn't need to choose for example the prime minister directly to keep her policies in place, her media does the job, they advertise for the policies which she desires and against those whom she rejects.

...ok. I've lived here and I tell you that the Queen has no real power, and has not made any impact on British policies. She plays no part in any political decisions. She "technically" has to sign every law, approve every prime minister, while in practice if she refuses to do any of those things and goes against elected bodies in any other context, it will be a national crisis and she would likely be deposed.
 
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As I already stated, you are obviously making "minor" problems as "mega" problems and then denying the whole system.

Every one accepts that western system is not "100%" perfect, but still the best on the grounds. Obama was no Billionaire, but still he became president of US. Merkel of Germany is also not a Billionaire, but still she became the Chancellor. You have to open your eyes and you will see series of people who were not Billionaire, but came through the western democratic system.

The worst "permanent" behaviour from the conservatives (from all types and religions) is this that they first find one small fault in the opponent, and then deny the rest 100% blindly. It is not called "justice".




Again this is that behaviour from the conservatives, which make others to hate them. How could "Assembly of Experts" become democratic?

You gave the following link about "Assembly of Experts": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_of_Experts_for_Leadership

According to your own given link:
//
The Assembly of Experts (Persian: مجلس خبرگان رهبری‎, translit. Majles-e Khobregān-e Rahbari‎) —also translated as the Assembly of Experts of the Leadership or as the Council of Experts— is the deliberative body empowered to designate and dismiss the Supreme Leader of Iran.[2][3] However all directly-elected members after the vetting process by the Guardian Council, still have to be approved by the Supreme Leader of Iran before gaining membership to the Assembly of Experts.[4][5]

All candidates to the Assembly of Experts must be approved by the Guardian Council whose members are, in turn, appointed either directly or indirectly by the Supreme Leader.[6] The Assembly consists of eighty eight Mujtahids that are elected (after approval by Supreme Leader[7][8] ) from lists of thoroughly vetted candidates by direct public vote for eight-year terms.
//

Therefore:

(1) The first building block is "Guardian Council" which is itself a "non democratic" body. It does not consists of "Iranian People", but only upon the "88 Religious Mujtahids" which are themselves appointed directly or indirectly by the Wali Faqih, who vets the list by kicking out all those who are not loyal to him.
So what to talk about the Iranian people, this Guardian Council even does not consist of Mujthids who have opposing views.

(2) The second building block is "Assembly of Experts" which is again totally "non democratic" body while the loyalist of Faqih (i.e. Guardian Council) only permits those people to take part as candidates, which are loyal to Wilayat e Faqih system. Even it was not enough, but the members of Assembly of Experts also have to be get the approval of Khameni too.
How in the world then Assemly of Experts could ever go against Khamenei when they have been themselves approved by Khamenei?




How in the world Iranian people could choose those candidates who are oppose to Wilayat-e-Faqih system when Guardian Council does not let any such person become even the "Candidate" for the Assembly of Expert?

Things are very clear brother. It is really sad to see the behaviour of conservatives when they bring the lamest excuses for their exercise of oppression.



What else could the reformists do in this dictatorial system of Wilayat e Faqih. They could not be blamed while they are compelled to do so even in order to get the nomination for becoming candidate.

Wilayat e Faqih system is no different that Saddam's Baath party system where only Baath party choose their leader. And here same hand picked "Mujtahids" of Guardian Council picking candidates for Assembly of Experts.
qualification of the members of Assembly of Experts is only checked before the election by Guardian council and nothing more. wikipedia is as credible as it's sources.

guardian council has 12 members, six Islamic faqihs (expert in Islamic Law), are chosen by the leader and six jurists are chosen by Parliament.

we do check the qualification of the people for any position according to our constitution which is approved in a democratic referendum by our people (unlike U.K dictatorship), after all we don't want to let any filthy rapist corrupt many like west to gain power in Iran.

That blood thirsty so called poor Obama spent 1 billion dollars in his campaign!
rich people helped him to reach power, in return of God knows what kind of filthy requests.
for example Zionists helped him and in return not only he closed his eyes on their war crimes but also by approving the biggest financial help to Israel.

That's the reality, what you call a minor flaw, is in fact an ultimate corruption.

The reality on the Iranian elections remain that pro-west candidate in assembly of experts lost to the conservative candidate.

by the way it was funny to mention the Germany, a country which it's constitution is written by U.S and is still occupied by U.S forces, and U.S intelligent services even spy on it's Councillor, a f@cked up country in which even reading a book about the lies of Holocaust is equal to prison!
please keep your freedom to yourself, you truly deserve it!

...ok. I've lived here and I tell you that the Queen has no real power, and has not made any impact on British policies. She plays no part in any political decisions. She "technically" has to sign every law, approve every prime minister, while in practice if she refuses to do any of those things and goes against elected bodies in any other context, it will be a national crisis and she would likely be deposed.
There is no reason for her to go against any law, cause there wasn't and wont be any law against her! this is an ultimate control. they wont write their constitution, cause if they do, people will see what they were told to be ceremonial is an actual dominance of power. they can't write a constitution with a phrase like even imagination of overthrowing the monarch system is equal to life in prison!
There is no national crisis in west, cause U.S embassy in there is supporting the government!
 
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Islamic Republic of Iran is the only country in the world whose people have chosen both the constitution and type of system (Islamic Republic) in a free referendum.

when a second country managed to give this level of authority to it's people, then come and lecture us on democracy

Hello.

Pakistan.

We are the only representation of Islamic system borne by democracy. True ballot democracy.

So please be respectful if you happen to be a guest on this forum.

Don't go level crazy when it comes to claiming Islam.
 
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Hello.

Pakistan.

We are the only representation of Islamic system borne by democracy. True ballot democracy.

So please be respectful if you happen to be a guest on this forum.

Don't go level crazy when it comes to claiming Islam.
please give the date of your referendum on choosing the type of system.
 
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please give the date of your referendum on choosing the type of system.

Referendums represent the last phase of unity in a nation's life.

Pakistan came out of democracy.

Real shit.

One vote one opinion system which your country cannot even begin to contemplate.

So once again. I respect your morale for your country but do know that there's a bigger brother who none can be disrespectful with.

Now carry on.
 
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Referendums represent the last phase of unity in a nation's life.

Pakistan came out of democracy.

Real shit.

One vote one opinion system which your country cannot even begin to contemplate.

So once again. I respect your morale for your country but do know that there's a bigger brother who none can be disrespectful with.

Now carry on.
The one who has become emotional is you. I was talking about referendums in the world and you jump to discussion that we (Pakistan) are unite without referendum! good for you.
 
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