How should PN counter the IN Carrier Battle Group

[Kompromat]

Nuke it.

 

[Maarkhoor]

A scenario for all to think and discuss:

We can take the 90Bs all operational and available, plus 2 Agosta 70s.
Full surface fleet.
Full Air arm

No SOSUS coverage in the Arabian sea.

SITREP:

CBG has been spotted leaving western command HQ in Karwar and proceeding West.

The CBG comprises of Vikramaditya, 2 X Kolkata class destroyers, 2 X Shivalik and 2 X Talwar-class frigates, Kamorta-class anti-submarine warfare corvettes and 1 X fleet tanker. INS Chakra II is the sub-surface component alongwith 2 X Kilo class submarines.

The CBG is likely to intercept & attack our ships & merchantmen to cripple our economy.
A coastal strike against Pakistan is unlikely from the CBG. For that they have other options.



What is the likely deployment of the CBG in order to strike Pakistan.
What steps can be taken by the PN to counter this threat.

Attach on Sialkot Bajwat sector and snatch away a big chunk of Indian land and bargain with India to takeaway their CBG or sunk them to hell with air attack combined of F-16 and JF-17.

 

[TsAr]

Before the Aircraft carrier it would be advisable to take out the supporting ship. Even if PN is able to take out 1 or 2 supporting ships this will raise panic within the IN.
If China navy is given a port in Gawadar this will have an impact on the Indian strategy.

 

[RJV]

INS Vikramaditya is a modified Kiev-class aircraft carrier which entered into service with the Indian Navy in 2013.

Originally built as Baku and commissioned in 1987, the carrier served with the Soviet Navy and later with the Russian Navy (as Admiral Gorshkov) before being decommissioned in 1996.The carrier was purchased by India on 20 January 2004 after years of negotiations at a final price of $2.35 billion.The ship successfully completed her sea trials in July 2013 and aviation trials in September 2013.
View attachment 545578
She was commissioned on 16 November 2013 at a ceremony held at Severodvinsk, Russia.On 14 June 2014, the Prime Minister of India formally inducted INS Vikramaditya into the Indian Navy.

INS Vikramaditya is going to be escorted by at least 2 Destroyer, 2-3 Frigates/Corvettes and around 1-2 Submarines, combine the aircraft carrier with all these ships and you get a very effective fighting force.

INS Vikramaditya is part of Western Fleet therefore it is primarily deployed to contain a Pakistani aggression.

Destroyers, Frigates and submarines accompanying the carrier are more than capable of sinking enemy submarines and surface vessels.

INS Vikramaditya could launch Mig-29K to take out key ground facilities, airports and military installments or it could help IAF by attacking Pakistani fighters/interceptors from rear.

Destroyers and Frigates are also capable of launching Surface to Surface missiles, combine it with MIG's stationed on board the INS Vikramaditya and a little help from IAF, the carrier battle group is more than capable of destroying the entire enemy military infrastructure within hours.




The reason I posted the above introduction, is that I would like to invite a a productive discussion specifically to operate & counter the IN CBG keeping in view the existing capabilities of both adversaries.

An aircraft carrier with its carrier battle group (CBG) is a tough nut to crack. Some time ago i was thinking about it. I will put my thoughts below.

Why can’t we have an "Anti CBG" ? I mean like CBG which have different components like ships, submarines, fighter aircraft, the anti CBG should also consist of different assets.

For example, consider the following configuration. This suggested Anti CBG has four main functions (Detection, Endurance, Protection and Strike)

Detection
1: An AEW aircraft: This is to detect and warn about airborne threats. I think Pakistan is already operating Chinese and Swedish AEW, so choose one.

2: A Maritime surveillance aircraft: This is to detect ships. I am not sure if Erieye or ZDK-03 can also detect surface targets like ships? If yes, no need for an extra plane. If no then how good is P-3C? Can it be used as a dedicated platform to detect naval surface assets?

Endurance - Refuel
3: A refueler aircraft: PAF already operates Il-78. So it should be part of this group. This will be used by fighter escort.

Protection
4: Fighter escort: A squadron of JF-17 or F-16. These are purely for A-A role. no antiship missiles here. Just Air to Air missiles. Main purpose is to provide protection to above mentioned assets.

Strike
This can be one of two choices or Both if possible (These are not already in PN inventory. So have to be bought or developed.)

A: A dedicated missile truck. can be something like H6 Bomber or may be if existing ATR of Navy can be modified to carry anti ship missile (lots of AShM).

B: Shore based antiship missile (Harbah or Zarb? ) with more range. I wanted to raise this question in Zarb thread also. Can we make it like two stage rocket system? Like let’s say your Maritime surveillance aircraft detects something 1000 miles away from Shore. Lets say target is an enemy ship detected at coordinate x,y (Point A). The above-mentioned land based antiship missile is fired. First stage is just the booster stage with only one purpose (to take the missile to Point A as soon as possible). It can use GPS and/or INS for navigation. Assuming the booster or first stage can fly at Mach 1, it will reach point A in little over a minute. That is when second stage starts. Missile sensors are turned on. Assuming the top speed of ship cannot be more than 30-40 Knots, by the time missile reach at point A, ship can be anywhere in approx. 1.5 mile radius of point A. Not a big area to search. In this case Missile sensors can be radar/TV/Infrared but should be able to detect enemy ship without external radar help.


The main advantage of this type of Anti CBG is speed. Compared to ships, it can cover a large area over sea to detect enemy ships. Fighter escort plus refueler can ensure that it is under protection from enemy aircraft.

The strike part I think if something like option B (Land based two stage antiship missile) is possible, saturation attacks are also possible. Unlike an air launched AShM, virtually a large number of land based AShM can be fired at same target.

 

[Khafee]

@MastanKhan Input please

 

[guest9999]

I had made a thread on the need to fight IN asymmetrically, this is the only way under Pakistan's current condition.

Asymmetrical War: A Necessity For PN

For some reason, PN has acquired or is acquiring ships that are absolutely useless in the current theatre. When IN is in the process of building large AAW destroyers, frigates, and aircraft carriers, PN is purchasing useless gunboats (OPV, Swift, F-22P).

Even if PN acquires Type 054-A/P, four aren't going to make much of difference. Naval battles with ships are really just a matter of attrition. Best way to handle the IN threat is mass produce speed boats armed with AShM, scatter and swarm IN ships, use some as suicide boats. Build up mini-sub fleet, scatter and swarm IN ships from under the surface, and layer the coast with "smart" mines.

Mass producing cruise missiles and launching them from camouflaged platforms, saturate and overwhelm IN, IAF, IA defenses, especially SAMs.

 

[Mrc]

Nuke it.

Tactical one

And than deny nuking it

 

[Jinn Baba]

Kya hogya hazrat ,,, JF17 ,,, not JF-16 ...

Sir we do not have any reilable evidence of purchase of CM400 AKG

@MastanKhan Input please

Let me guess his answer: PAF and PN are traitors, the JF17 should have been 45% larger, we should have bought Rafale before India and have at least 2 squadrons in PN by now, we should have destroyed the carrier group 1000+km away the moment the IAF entered Pak airspace few days ago, and...you kids dont know anything

 

[BHarwana]

Can someone list the type of weapons this whole carrier group carries.

 

[MastanKhan]

Let me guess his answer: PAF and PN are traitors, the JF17 should have been 45% larger, we should have bought Rafale before India and have at least 2 squadrons in PN by now, we should have destroyed the carrier group 1000+km away the moment the IAF entered Pak airspace few days ago, and...you kids dont know anything

Hi,

A young person must never live in utter stupidity---.

The time to build and procure is gone---now you have to fight with what you have---.

 

[The Accountant]

Let me guess his answer: PAF and PN are traitors, the JF17 should have been 45% larger, we should have bought Rafale before India and have at least 2 squadrons in PN by now, we should have destroyed the carrier group 1000+km away the moment the IAF entered Pak airspace few days ago, and...you kids dont know anything

I think its photoshop ...

 

[Thorough Pro]

Indian ACC is compromised, no need to attack it from outside....

 

[Khatri_pune]

Tactical one

And than deny nuking it

Old habits die hard.....

 

[Dazzler]

Bribe Indian navy to sink / crash it.

No wife swapping for a week and they'll sink it themselves in exchange.

 

[Khafee]

@Rashid Mahmood DF21 ASBM?