How should PN counter the IN Carrier Battle Group

[CriticalThought]

@HRK any takers for Nasr on a boat? and like 4 years ago, still not trolling.

Yep, in all seriousness, why not?

 

[MilSpec]

Yep, in all seriousness, why not?

Thats what I said, get an Air Launched one you have a Nasr triad.

@HRK see, i got one,

 

[CriticalThought]

Thats what I said, get an Air Launched one you have a Nasr triad.

@HRK see, i got one,

Actually, you got no one. You are a hoo-ha who comes here to ridicule and in general to make a pest of yourself. You just ran into the unofficial yahoo slayer of PDF. Now, present valid reasons why Nasr can't, or shouldn't be launched from a ship or get lost.

 

[MilSpec]

Actually, you got no one. You are a hoo-ha who comes here to ridicule and in general to make a pest of yourself. You just ran into the unofficial yahoo slayer of PDF. Now, present valid reasons why Nasr can't, or shouldn't be launched from a ship or get lost.

heheh , we've got an internet tough guy here.

As for lack of comprehension skills, cant help you there great slayer, I have been saying ship launched Nasr for years now. Why would I negate my own take.

 

[CriticalThought]

heheh , we've got an internet tough guy here.

As for lack of comprehension skills, cant help you there great slayer, I have been saying ship launched Nasr for years now. Why would I negate my own take.

Oh great! Now provide arguments for why Nasr can, and should be launched from a ship, otherwise get lost.

 

[MilSpec]

Oh great! Now provide arguments for why Nasr can, and should be launched from a ship, otherwise get lost.

make me.

 

[CriticalThought]

make me.

Can't do better than your mum and dad. They have produced a gem.

 

[MilSpec]

Can't do better than your mum and dad. They have produced a gem.

living up to comprehension skills of the Pakistani stereotype. Congrats.

 

[CriticalThought]

living up to comprehension skills of the Pakistani stereotype. Congrats.

Once a gem, always a gem.

 

[guest9999]

@Rashid Mahmood

I had posted this in another thread, I still stand by this. PN, needs to think out-of-the-box, to fight asymmetrically. Vessels like F-22P, OPV, Swift, and almost every other surface fleet vessel of PN are really just useless pieces of junk, scrap metal, waiting to be sunk by AShM and IN aircraft. They lack firepower and defense. I'm not sure why the hell PN is worried about drug trafficking, smuggling, pirates, when it has IN right next door with aircraft carriers, expanding fleet of large destroyers/frigates, sub-hunting fleet, submarine fleet. At this rate, IN/IAF does not need to attack Pakistan! Pakistan is doing their job for them by acquiring useless ships!

Instead of having few large & toothless ships, let's have a few hundred FAC (speed boats)

Each FAC (speed boat) should be equipped with a quad-launcher. PN can distribute these boats and spread them accordingly to different roles. Some of these boats can be devoted to

• AAW (anti-air warfare) - Can hook up MANPADS like ANZA
• AShM (anti-ship missile) - Load cruise missiles like
• ASW (anti-submarine warfare)
• land attack roles using cruise missiles
• coastal invasion using SSG commandos

The purposes these boats can be fitted for, are numerous. The cost involved to construct these boats, are incredibly cheap. Please read on the effectiveness of FAC in naval warfare. Israel has had success in its wars against much larger adversaries in similar naval scenarios. Iranian navy has gone this cheap, but effective route. Look at how other countries are hesitant to attack them in the Gulf. PN has its own setbacks to learn from, example - IN attack on Karachi in 1971 war.

The basis of this idea is bringing the "beehive to the bear". Read US naval strategies used during WWII against Japan. Japan's navy had larger more powerful ships, like the Musashi. US swarmed the ships with superior number & aircraft. I like to point out that naval warfare is really a battle of attrition when weapons fielded on both sides are comparable.

Even if PN acquires the Type-54A with the 32-cell VLS, four of these ships are not going to make much of a different in our context. They will be overwhelmed when IN saturates them with its AShM firepower.

PN can reverse this numerical advantage by fielding more FAC. They may be small speedboats, but armed with quad-launchers & AShM, they are no less dangerous. These boats will also be harder to target, in the sense that they are smaller and much faster. They can evade incoming missiles through fast maneuvering. These boats can "shoot & scoot". In other words, can fire their payload and run.

You can further mask these boats with camouflage color and you can even paint them with radar absorbing coating. Each boat can be equipped with ECM (electronic counter measures) and other jamming mechanisms to avoid incoming missiles.

Layer coastal points with underwater Mines
With distributed sensors and UUV (unmanned underwater vehicles), PN can establish "smart" use of underwater minefields. With sensor, mines can be controlled to detonate at the right time and targets.

This will greatly help PN avoid IN naval blockades. "Smart" Mines will be the first layer of defense.

Please read below:
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014/august/mine-and-undersea-warfare-future

Mass Produce Midget Submarines
Each midget sub can carry SSG, fire torpedoes, lay mines. Having numerous midget subs with ability to fire torpedoes can have the same, if not better, effect of having 3 Agosta subs going against the IN.

I'm struggling to understand why PN only had 3 constructed? Why wait decades for larger subs that may not come? From what I understood, is that the COSMOS plant in Italy shut down. I see no reason why Pakistan can't slightly modify the original design and mass produce it locally.

Exploding Drones
PN can modify some FAC (speed boats) to become unmanned vehicles, with the purpose of swarming on & crashing into IN ships. These boats can be packed with explosives and guided to their targets via remote control. Imagine swarming each IN destroyer or frigate with 20 of these?

PN can also modify some midget subs to become UUV (unmanned underwater vehicles). These can be used for the same purpose as the boats above. Packed with explosives, a midget sub can sneak into the IN fleets and detonate. PN can swarm IN fleets with these underwater and with the unmanned speed boats, above water.

Missile Saturation
Here, I believe PN, needs to move away from designating Babur cruise missiles specifically for second-strike platform. Please visit the USN strikes conducted on Syrian facilities some time back. The USN saturated Syrian air defense with cruise missiles. Russian SAM's didn't even bother engaging. PN, in fact all the armed forces, need to be able to launch a numerically overwhelming amount of conventional Babur cruise missiles to saturate and overwhelm indian defenses. This strategy could be key to winning in a conflict with india. Imagine a volley of 150 Babur cruise missiles launched at IN fleet, or IAF and IA bases? Indian SAM batteries will be overwhelmed pretty quickly. Their aircraft could be wiped out with CEM (combined effect munitions) on some of these missiles.

I fail to see why Pakistan has not adopted the strategy of using superior missile numbers as an integral part of conventional warfare?

This is especially true, given the fact, that Pakistan produces these cruise missiles locally and wouldn't be limited by budget.

AShBM Carrier Killer
It seems the Chinese AShBM DF-21 missile has caused tremendous concern for aircraft carriers. USN strategy is now gearing toward increasing operating range of aircraft on the carriers as a means to stay safe. It would be a good idea for Pakistan to invest in building AShBM for the indian theatre. Pakistan could embark on a program to existing SRBM and develop AShBM variants to take down IN carriers and destroyers. Perhaps, some help from China can be sought in this regard, pertaining to radar seekers on warheads.

I would stress developing a AShBM like DF-21, as this could neutralize the threat of aircraft carriers. I don't believe torpedoes from submarines will have enough power to sink aircraft carriers. Just getting near them will be a bad idea as they will be escorted by attack submarines, sub-hunting aircraft like P-8, and destroyers/frigates, etc. AShBM will enable PN to strike from long range and will keep the aircraft carrier at a distance.

Nuclear Torpedo/UUV
Russia will deploy nuclear armed UUV drones with potential 100-200 megaton thermonuclear warhead. Pakistan should follow in pursuit. Even a 200 kiloton warhead will be enough to destroy the entire IN CBG! Plus, this could become an alternative to an ICBM, except there is no defense against it.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Thats what I said, get an Air Launched one you have a Nasr triad.

@HRK see, i got one,

STOP TROLLING.

make me.

living up to comprehension skills of the Pakistani stereotype. Congrats.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Dear clueless, stay clueless. Thanks!

Yep, until the delusions and grandeur on this thread exists. The fate of Ghazi must be a good reminder inshallah

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

@Rashid Mahmood

I had posted this in another thread, I still stand by this. PN, needs to think out-of-the-box, to fight asymmetrically. Vessels like F-22P, OPV, Swift, and almost every other surface fleet vessel of PN are really just useless pieces of junk, scrap metal, waiting to be sunk by AShM and IN aircraft.

I appreciate you thoughts for the PN, but
Please stick to the thread question.

We have to fight a war with the "junk" we have, so stick with it.

 

[Surya 1]

I have said it before I will say it again we need Frigates like French FREMM class which have VLS for long Range Cruise Missiles and also Submarines like AMUR 950.
View attachment 545585
View attachment 545586
View attachment 545587Plus two to three squadrons of Fighter Jets equipped with Missiles which have 1000 KM Range

@Rashid Mahmood @aziqbal @Tipu7 @Arsalan @Sulman Badshah

Your post is most sensible amongst all on this page.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

The air burst is usually 100 to 1,000 m (330 to 3,280 ft) above the hypo-center to allow the shockwave of the fission or fusion driven explosion to bounce off the ground and back into itself, creating a shockwave that is more forceful than one from a detonation at ground level.

This "mach stem" only occurs near ground level, and is similar in shape to the letter Y when viewed from the side. Air bursting also minimizes fallout by keeping the fireball from touching the ground, limiting the amount of debris that is vaporized and drawn up in the radioactive debris cloud.



Food for thought...