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How should PN counter the IN Carrier Battle Group

why not use the small size drones without radar signals for such purpose???? say tiny drones crying explosive ???? if thousand of them attack simultaneously they can do the sufficient damage remember on board guns are not designed for such purpose ;)

How would it find target without radar. How much they will have to travel to rich to those naval vessel.
 
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I think the idea some members are suggesting, regarding drone swarms armed with improvised bombs, is a great idea. Pakistan should learn something from these ragtag groups fighting throughout the middle east, and improvise. One doesn't necessarily need the best, game-changing, weapon to change outcome. This is what I mean by thinking "out-of-the-box".

Russia Offers New Details About Syrian Mass Drone Attack, Now Implies Ukrainian Connection


The Russian military’s top officer in charge of drone development has offered new details about apparent first of their kind mass drone attacks on its forces in Syria in an official briefing at the country’s Ministry of Defense. The presentation reiterated the Kremlin’s assertion that terrorists or rebels could not have conducted the operation without significant outside support, now implying a possible Ukrainian connection, but significant questions remain unanswered.

Speaking from the Russian Ministry of Defense’s briefing room, amid examples of the drones and their munitions that the country recovered after the attacks, Major General Alexander Novikov, head of the Russian General Staff's Office for Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Development, gave the most detailed and complete official description of the incident to date. He said that unspecified terrorists utilized a total of 13 improvised drones, each carrying 10 bomblets, sending 10 to Russia's Khmeimim air base in Latakia governorate and the other three to its naval base in Tartus on the Mediterranean Sea. The munitions each had an explosive charge weighing nearly one pound, as well as strings of metal ball bearings or BBs glued together as pre-formed shrapnel, which would have made them most effective against individuals out in the open.

“Construction of these drones takes significant time period and special knowledge of aerodynamics and radioelectronics,” Novikov. “Assembly and use of these components in the joint system are a complicated engineer task demanding special training, scientific knowledge, and practical experience of producing these aircraft.”

Novikov said that Russian forces had been able to capture a number of the drones after electronic warfare systems at Khmeimim knocked them out of the sky. Somewhat confusingly, he later said that whoever had built the unmanned aircraft had included systems to specifically to defeat those countermeasures, though.

Air defense radars aided in detecting the attacks and Pantsir-S1 short-range air defense systems destroyed some of the improvised unmanned aircraft, as well. He added that this was the first time Russian forces in Syria had come under such an attack, though rebels and terrorists have been employing such systems for years now in both that country and neighboring Iraq.

The general officer acknowledged that the individual components, such as the apparent lawnmower or moped motors, were available commercially. This is a point the U.S. military has been keen to stress in the aftermath of the attacks.

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To support these assertions, Novikov focused heavily on the drones’ on-board GPS, which has become an important component of Russia’s allegation that outside actors, including one or more nation states, would have had to have been involved in the attacks at some level. The Major-General said the systems gave them military-grade precision when navigating to Khmeimim and releasing their bombs over the target area.

The “pre-programmed coordinates are more accurate than those in the Internet,” Novikov, challenging arguments that militants could have acquired the necessary data via open sources online. Though the briefing included maps of the pre-programmed flight routes, which the Russian Ministry of Defense said it had created using information it downloaded from the examples it captured, he did not provide any actual data to support his claims.
 
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Major Changes in Navy's Doctrine for Pakistan

  • Mobile Land to Sea Launchers (Coastal Defense Strategy)
  • Dedicated Sea Fighter Jets for Security of Coastal Ships :coffee:
  • Midget Submarine Programs :agree:
  • Indegnious Sea to Sea Missiles Program
  • China's generous gift of 48 Drones to Pakistan :pakistan::china:

  • In case your indian asses has forgotten that is China's trade route you are blocking
 
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Well for every Indian Misadventure their will be an equally proper response from Pakistan Navy


WE DARE Indians TO BRING CARRIER

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How would it find target without radar. How much they will have to travel to rich to those naval vessel.
it could be a drone battalion similar to chines which unveiled by the state-owned China Electronics Technology Group Corp at an air show in June. It consisted of 119 combat-ready drones, all equipped with sensors and programmed to communicate with one another when airborne. Tests of strike groups involving up to 1,000 drones are underway

or else cheaper option is Solar powered gps guided drones which can fly non stop for very long time
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Major Changes in Navy's Doctrine for Pakistan

  • Mobile Land to Sea Launchers (Coastal Defense Strategy)
  • Dedicated Sea Fighter Jets for Security of Coastal Ships :coffee:
  • Midget Submarine Programs :agree:
  • Indegnious Sea to Sea Missiles Program
  • China's generous gift of 48 Drones to Pakistan :pakistan::china:

  • In case your indian asses has forgotten that is China's trade route you are blocking
They can't and won't do a blockade. They aren't idiots. Things have deescalated
 
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Coastal Defence Initiative is ideal defensive posture
We can use one of these from anywhere along the 700km coastal zone


1 Truck , 1 Driver , few Missiles , mobile platform :coffee:
50 Trucks , 50 drivers , 150 Missiles , mobile platform :coffee::coffee:
100 Trucks , 100 Drivers , 300 Missiles , mobile platform :pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:


300 Missiles vs 1 Aircraft carrier

Good luck


full




Then will come the waves of Exocet Discharge


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Parting away gift Ababeel
 
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The only real option open to us to counter INS aircraft carrier would be submarine attack, this is the main reason PN is investing so hard in the submarine fleet over the next decade.. Any aerial route is currently non viable. Don't forget Aircraft carrier is not a single target. It has a layered air defense structure with Frigates and destroyers acting as Air defense pickets, which all have SAM's as well as CIWS. You would have to breach this defense before you even got a shot at a carrier. You would in reality need tens of missiles of Exocet class, probably in the order of at least 2 to 3 squadrons each carrying 2 missiles. INS is not stupid they would position themselves outside of this kind of threat envelope and project power using there air wing, more as area denial.

Drone technology is not currently mature enough or viable in terms of range, payload or ability to find target in open ocean, although it is an intriguing concept to use a saturation drone attack to deplete SAM stocks before the real missiles arrive, but we are no where near this. I would highly recommend forum memebers to read "red storm rising" by Tom Clancy where he writes the most credible fictional account of a Soviet aerial attack of a US carrier Task Force. It is so technically correct and plausible and there is much to learn from it.
 
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If you want to attack a supapowa CBG, first send up a few waves of fast jets (any jets) to induce MIG-29 interceptions. Do not engage in any aerial fight, retreat after those MIG-29 have air-borne. Do this until almost all their flyers have done one (two would be better) sortie in 24 hours.

Why? MIG-29 pilots can not do more than 2 sorties in a day without injuring their back spine during hard landings. An injured pilot is not a good asset. The hard landing twice a day for the MIG-29 would have hard impact on the airframe that may required immediate inspection and repair on possible component damage. Inspection and repairs times for 12 to 24 MIG-29 means the aircraft concerned will be out of operation for a few hours to few days, unless they take the risk of flying a possible damaged aircraft. This is bait strategy.

Taking a lesson from the 1973 Israeli-Arab war, using multiple waves of suicide drones to attract air defence missile can effectively deplete the enemy's SAM stock. Suicide drones can be cheap target drones or modified unmanned aircraft made from old jet fighters that have retired from front line service.

A CBG without fighter jets and SAM would be a sitting duck to subsequent air attacks. The only problem is they may be already aware of your game plan and do not take the bait and sail out of harm's way and return when they are recuperated.
 
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If you want to attack a supapowa CBG, first send up a few waves of fast jets (any jets) to induce MIG-29 interceptions. Do not engage in any aerial fight, retreat after those MIG-29 have air-borne. Do this until almost all their flyers have done one (two would be better) sortie in 24 hours.

LRSAM will shoot those planes from 90 KM away. LRSAM has has over 99% strike against any plane.

Taking a lesson from the 1973 Israeli-Arab war, using multiple waves of suicide drones to attract air defence missile can effectively deplete the enemy's SAM stock. Suicide drones can be cheap target drones or modified unmanned aircraft made from old jet fighters that have retired from front line service.

They will be shot down with Guns. Neither your suicide drone or your plane will be able to Vikramaditya till it is visible with naked eye. Its EW is so strong that it will not be visible in Radars. Kolkata class stealth frigates are so stealth that you will have to come very near to them to see her in Radar. Any enemy plane shall be shot down even before it can see any of these vessel. Extended range derivative of LRSAM , Ex SAM is coming with 150 KM of range followed by 375 KM range version of LRSAM-AAD combo technology.

The only real option open to us to counter INS aircraft carrier would be submarine attack, this is the main reason PN is investing so hard in the submarine fleet over the next decade..

This one is the most realistic option if PN wants to take risk. other options discussed here are suicidal.
 
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In a war between Indian and Pakistan what could IN really achieve? We have to keep in mind that today is 2019 and 1971. Actual fighting will occur on land and in air.

As for IN due to advancement in missile technology and range India will have to attempt a blockade from significant distance and they will not risk bringing in their carrier in range for possible missile attack. I would say India will maintain a distance of 150km + which would mean effective flow of sea traffic from Gulf at least. Further with creation of CPEC there cannot be effect blockade as Pakistan can access significant supplies through there.

Question would than arise will Indian attack foreign flagged merchant ships?

Like IAF, IN is just thumping chest and will soon come to its sense in actual battle. The fact that they had at least 2 subs detected in the last month shows real competence of their navel crew.
 
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They will be shot down with Guns. Neither your suicide drone or your plane will be able to Vikramaditya till it is visible with naked eye. Its EW is so strong that it will not be visible in Radars. Kolkata class stealth frigates are so stealth that you will have to come very near to them to see her in Radar. Any enemy plane shall be shot down even before it can see any of these vessel. Extended range derivative of LRSAM , Ex SAM is coming with 150 KM of range followed by 375 KM range version of LRSAM-AAD combo technology.

If they are so stealthy and have an unbeatable EW then what are Indians waiting for? Rather then the humiliation suffered by the IAF they should have on first attempt used IN.
 
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