How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Viper0011.]

India has the info about F16 through singapore and MMRCA tender which evaluated close to staggering 660 parameters(We are also trying to patent the evaluation process). India also has powerful radars (AWACS and ground based) to know every move of PAF inside Pakistan.

India can teach a lesson to PAF at any time with su 30 MKI . The air doctrine and procurement going on now is aimed at maintaining IAF superiority in Indian subcontinent for decades to come.

So just to bring reality into the pic......IAF's superiority in Indian subcontinent.....are you including China and Pakistan...? Because you can never obtain 'IAF' air superiority without escalating to the last resort!!!
I've noticed that people like you from India, have a VERY hard time in understanding the reality. Will IAF be big in numbers and all?? Sure. Will it ever achieve 'air superiority' over Pakistani or the Chinese airspace....NO, not unless the Indian military establishment is willing to take India back about 50 years and of course, destroy half the Pakistan too. Remember, in which case, I'd recommend you watch those early days tv shows from the 1940's....if that's where you want to be, then you should try such silly attempts.

Between India and Pakistan, there is no superiority of anything. There is just total escalation and that'll result in losses you probably can't understand. Indian military planners know this too and that's why they haven't been gunge-ho about attacking Pakistan. Anyone with three times the numbers of decent modern jets can eventually 'teach a lesson' to the other, specially in a prolong war's scenario. So please keep the macho-man mentality to yourself and lets post something productive to debate on.

 

[airomerix]

http://www.f-16.net/news_article1353.html

Will you consider it even if I post some pictures of PAF pilots prior and after flights of J-11?

 

[Hellraiser007]

So just to bring reality into the pic......IAF's superiority in Indian subcontinent.....are you including China and Pakistan...? Because you can never obtain 'IAF' air superiority without escalating to the last resort!!!
I've noticed that people like you from India, have a VERY hard time in understanding the reality. Will IAF be big in numbers and all?? Sure. Will it ever achieve 'air superiority' over Pakistani or the Chinese airspace....NO, not unless the Indian military establishment is willing to take India back about 50 years and of course, destroy half the Pakistan too. Remember, in which case, I'd recommend you watch those early days tv shows from the 1940's....if that's where you want to be, then you should try such silly attempts.

Between India and Pakistan, there is no superiority of anything. There is just total escalation and that'll result in losses you probably can't understand. Indian military planners know this too and that's why they haven't been gunge-ho about attacking Pakistan. Anyone with three times the numbers of decent modern jets can eventually 'teach a lesson' to the other, specially in a prolong war's scenario. So please keep the macho-man mentality to yourself and lets post something productive to debate on.

China is a different scenario and plz stay on topic. The thread is related to How PAF will counter su 30 MKI and my post goes well with it.

 

[airomerix]

China is a different scenario and plz stay on topic. The thread is related to How PAF will counter su 30 MKI and my post goes well with it.

Read the last past paragraph of his post with open eyes please. And TWICE if possible.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Will you consider it even if I post some pictures of PAF pilots prior and after flights of J-11?

That's not pilot's photo sessions, that's an article about pilot exchange program. You didn't even read it.

 

[airomerix]

That's not pilot's photo sessions, that's an article about pilot exchange program. You didn't even read it.

And what makes you think PAF pilots traveled 2000km to the north for some random clicks with the J-11? Explanation please!

 

[Hellraiser007]

Read the last past paragraph of his post with open eyes please. And TWICE if possible.

Mate We are only discussing about scenario of Su 30 MKI dogfight with PAF not war

 

[Viper0011.]

Mate We are only discussing about scenario of Su 30 MKI dogfight with PAF not war

Ok, so now life goes from the universe down to a village. Just SU-30 dogfight when the first post was talking about 'IAF obtaining Air Superiority over the Sub Continent and teaching PAF a lesson'.....entirely different discussion and contradictory don't you think?

In Dog Fight, F-16 will hold its own. It's been testing and proven. It takes out F-15's in Dog Fights....and Dog Fight's why PAF bought it. You realize PAF has amazed Western air forces with its Dog Fighting skills right? I'd stay away from that as that's PAF's forte. Plus future is really BRV...and even that through unmanned.

 

[Storm Force]

Orangzaib

NO OFFENCE but 160 su30mki can ACHIEVE air superority over PAF which is 75% obselete F7 & ,IRAGE ROSE upgrades.

PAF wil be lucky to keep IAF out for more than 72 hours max.

SHORT OF SUPPLIES. MATERIAL THEY WIL RESULT to tacical nukes

COVENTIONAL BOTH THE PAK AIRFORCE & ESPECIALLY NAVY WILL STRUGGLE big time

THIS GAP WILL WIDEN due to india,s massive economic advantage of $10 to $1

 

[airomerix]

Mate We are only discussing about scenario of Su 30 MKI dogfight with PAF not war

Now that made me really sad.

I want to bring it in your notice that one of your Major thinks there would be no more dogfights as R-73 and other short range missiles are loaded to enhance the beauty of your MKI. If you do not believe me then you can search pg no. 97,98 and 99.

Secondly if we are not discussing 'war' then thats even better. We can catch your intruding MKI and shoot it down while the international community pardons us because that MKI was over Pakistani airspace. No?

 

[MZUBAIR]

I dont think PAF have any solid reply for Su30 ...!!!

 

[Skull and Bones]

And what makes you think PAF pilots traveled 2000km to the north for some random clicks with the J-11? Explanation please!

Your matter, doesn't concern us.

MKI and J-11 doesn't even have the same aerodynamic characteristics. Go on.

 

[silent hawk]

One aspect which I believe needs considerations is Pakistan's VERA-E system which enables Pakistan to classify ememy aircrafts while they are across the border. This means that PAF will know when a SU 30 is approaching the border and hence can have better employment techniques. As long as Pakistan can deploy block 52 against Su 30 it has a good chance of success.

Training is another factor. India's lack of a dedicated jet trainer means PAF pilots are better trained.

Better employment conditions and training give PAF the edge.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Oh yes, they are! Ever since ROSE upgrades!





Hit a nerve, have I, lol!!

Provide details of BVR engagements of Russian BVR Missiles, the releases and kills. That will determine the kill probability and then find the same for the American Missiles. Perhaps, then, you will rest your senseless yapping.

We are back to the circle with Rose upgrades.

I am saying I will post everything. Just define "kill probability" with a reliable source first. It shouldn't be too hard for you, since you claim to know that "kill probability" of Russian BVRs is less than that of American BVR. Is it so hard for you to post just one definition?

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

I gave you a link from "times of India" saying other wise, as far as BVR combat goes... ok lets talk about it ..

You say WVR is receding and will decrease further in the future ...

What happens when two stealth aircrafts (the future) face each other ?? (BVR of WVR)

Since there is no other stealth fighter except the raptor lets take a raptor vs raptor scenario

APG-77 has a range of 300 odd KM for 5m2 RCS
The raptor's rumored RCS is 0.0001 m2

So put it in the equation you get 20 Km detection range from the front, which is nearly WVR combat, so you can deny it, but the fact is WVR will be there and it will be of grave importance otherwise you wont have scientists figuring out ways to get better turn rates, climb rates
and all that ---

First of all, its a rumor. Both the RCS of F22 and detection range of APG-77. Secondly radars go advancements all the time. Once again, I have never said WVR will never occur. Answer just simple questions?

Is BVR the dominant form of combat today when air superiority aircrafts face off?
Is the ratio of BVR engagements today higher than it was yesterday?

Scientists spend time figuring out better turn rates, climb rates, etc. But the newer US airforce doctrine is of the one to avoid dogfights and perform hit and runs by detecting the adversary first and launch its missile. Is it true or not?