How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Storm Force]

MAVERICK PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF OF A CHINESE FIGHTER ACTUALLY ENGAGING AT bvr at knocking out the adversary.

Maverick i ask you this because you keep asking SILLY QUESTIONS like this

R77 AMRAMSKI IS A NEW BVR not fired in anger

JUST LIKE THE CHINEASE SD10

OR THE SOON TO BE INDUCTED SUPER bvr meteore or indian ASTRA..

This does not dilute their effectiveness

ON PAPER THE R77 has better kinmetic performance than both MICA & AMRAAM which are top notch western missles.

SD10 OF CHINA i believe will be copied version of R77 VYMPEL from Russia.

Finally you giys goinf on about KLJ7 & KLJ10 i suggest you do some RESEARCH on the advantages of a PESA RADAR like the BARS on the mki over the mechanical scanning KLJ & APG63/69 in the PAF . The is no comprison the PESA is lethel

No matter how you dress this question up about countering the MKI the facts are as follows

IAF have far more su30mki in service today than PAF has JF17 & F16 combined

IAF have more SU30MKI on order than PAF has JF17 or F16

su30mki has a better m,ore advanced PESA radar

SU30MKI has bigger range of BVR weapons

SU30MKI has a superb TVC engine giving extreme agility and AOA that cant be MATCHED by both JF17/F16...

RCS on its own with we have SAM COVER will negate this obvious advantages by MUCH MARGINS to make the difference.

 

[DARKY]

It does,
It did,
It doesn't,
Lol......don't have anything at all right, no wonder. LOL!!!

No it does not...
You said they they ordered/have Aim120C7... *FACEPLAM*
I provided enough pictures for you to see... may be your Brain could not process that.

Here again... a few Images.

And you still wonder...

So you have no 'proof', right??





So yet again you have no proof, right? All you have is a pile of BS. Atleast you are consistent with your BS, I have to give you that. And my Kamikazi comment stands valid still because there is no point in discussing clean configurations unless the Jet is to be used in such a way.





And just as expected, consistency without PROOF. No proof at all for any BS claim. Listen Kid, either come back to me with proof or stay put!





And ignorant too, the agreement was already signed and Israel had to reimburse China for non-implementation!





And yet again, stories from the wild!

Next time, bring proof or as I said, stay put!

What are you ?
You cannot understand simple language and keep on ranting proof.

I gave the proof... as simple as it gets... read the post again... try to understand... If you can't get some one to make you understand as simple as that.

you don't know what are radars how they work.. what is phased array and what are planar arrays... what are TRMMs and what How different range of frequencies work in illuminating or tracking a target.
You don't know how the RCS works with additional pay load.... *FACEPLAM*
The Mig 21bison armed with 2 RVV-AE and a EL/L-8222 pod would still have RCS below 2m^2 allowing that to get within the striking range against and Ere-eye type target.

What ever I said till now went over your head.

There is no substitute for a Dumb brain and on top of that deliberate stupidity.

 

[airomerix]

Your own countrymen claimed that mirages are limited to WVR while you continued with your rant. Turn back to check.

Iam only here to fix your rants. Im sorry.

Guns would be less effective as compared to WVR missiles against less agile fighters. Again, reply only after understanding the context, idiot.

So you mean your flankers will prefer to loose a $85000 r-73 on lets say our Il78s or some C-130 which i suppose would not be as agile as your divine flanker instead of letting go 50 rounds of vulcan cannon which may roughly cost $3000 to the tax payer of India. Not a good bargain I think. Are really on Indian side?

Then tell me why will a MKI enter a dogfight when it still has it BVR missiles or shut up. Give me a scenario where that will be useful.

You want a scenario? Lets make one! MKI enters Pakistani airspace over lahore. Manages to get onto the tail of the chasing JF-17 but WAITs for it create a distance of atleast 5-6 Kilometers so that it may utilze its R-77. He will never touch the guns because a retard at defence.pk thinks guns are supposed to be used when BEYOND VISUAL RANGE missiles are used up! How fancy is that?

I am claiming that BVR is more effective than WVR. That is why the world is moving towards BVR. Look at F35 whose WVR capability is as good as ****.

Obama should shoot the Raythoens CEO for intiating the AIM-9X programme and draining down billions of dollars of US taxpayer money because the SAME RETARD thinks that WVR missiles are a waste and no longer needed.

Instead of telling some dozen other members here to 'shut up' why dont you shut the 'eff" up and get the 'eff' out of this thread? Or I have a better idea! Join some IAF instuctor school and help PAF in saving our jets from cannon and WVR missiles of MKI.

Cheers!

 

[Manticore]

Keep silly images out of your posts --- next time there will be infractions

 

[airomerix]

Your own countrymen claimed that mirages are limited to WVR while you continued with your rant. Turn back to check.

Iam only here to fix your rants. Im sorry.

Guns would be less effective as compared to WVR missiles against less agile fighters. Again, reply only after understanding the context, idiot.

So you mean your flankers will prefer to loose a $85000 r-73 on lets say our Il78s or some C-130 which i suppose would not be as agile as your divine flanker instead of letting go 50 rounds of vulcan cannon which may roughly cost $3000 to the tax payer of India. Not a good bargain I think. Are really on Indian side?

Then tell me why will a MKI enter a dogfight when it still has it BVR missiles or shut up. Give me a scenario where that will be useful.

You want a scenario? Lets make one! MKI enters Pakistani airspace over lahore. Manages to get onto the tail of the chasing JF-17 but WAITs for it create a distance of atleast 5-6 Kilometers so that it may utilze its R-77. He will never touch the guns because a retard at defence.pk thinks guns are supposed to be used when BEYOND VISUAL RANGE missiles are used up! How fancy is that?

I am claiming that BVR is more effective than WVR. That is why the world is moving towards BVR. Look at F35 whose WVR capability is as good as ****.

Obama should shoot the Raythoens CEO for intiating the AIM-9X programme and draining down billions of dollars of US taxpayer money because the SAME RETARD thinks that WVR missiles are a waste and no longer needed.

Instead of telling some dozen other members here to 'shut up' why dont you shut the 'eff" up and get the 'eff' out of this thread? Or I have a better idea! Join some IAF instuctor school and help PAF in saving our jets from cannon and WVR missiles of MKI.

Cheers!

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

So you mean your flankers will prefer to loose a $85000 r-73 on lets say our Il78s or some C-130 which i suppose would not be as agile as your divine flanker instead of letting go 50 rounds of vulcan cannon which may roughly cost $3000 to the tax payer of India. Not a good bargain I think. Are really on Indian side?

Actually our flankers will use neither R73 nor cannon for that purpose. We will use R77.

You want a scenario? Lets make one! MKI enters Pakistani airspace over lahore. Manages to get onto the tail of the chasing JF-17 but WAITs for it create a distance of atleast 5-6 Kilometers so that it may utilze its R-77. He will never touch the guns because a retard at defence.pk thinks guns are supposed to be used when BEYOND VISUAL RANGE missiles are used up! How fancy is that?

Tell me one thing, how did JF17 reached there? It was already flying there wasn't it? So, MKI would have detected it before entering Lahore and would have fired R77 before itself.

Obama should shoot the Raythoens CEO for intiating the AIM-9X programme and draining down billions of dollars of US taxpayer money because the SAME RETARD thinks that WVR missiles are a waste and no longer needed.

Instead of telling some dozen other members here to 'shut up' why dont you shut the 'eff" up and get the 'eff' out of this thread? Or I have a better idea! Join some IAF instuctor school and help PAF in saving our jets from cannon and WVR missiles of MKI.

Cheers!

Another silly post. When I say BVR is more effective than WVR, it somehow gets interpreted as "the SAME RETARD thinks that WVR missiles are a waste and no longer needed."

Next I will say that assault rifle is more effective than a pistol and you will interpret it as "the Same RETARD thinks that pistol are a waste and are no longer needed."

No words needed. You can continue to to delusion yourself. I will not reply to you anymore. You compatriots like maverick may know lesser than you do but they atleast have the ability to read.

 

[Mav3rick]

I haven't said PAF does not have BVR missile. I have said your Mirages aren't BVR capable.

Oh yes, they are! Ever since ROSE upgrades!

I will post everything you want me to. After you can define the term "kill probabilty" of a missile. And please give a source as well from where you give this definition. If you can't, shut up.

Hit a nerve, have I, lol!!

Provide details of BVR engagements of Russian BVR Missiles, the releases and kills. That will determine the kill probability and then find the same for the American Missiles. Perhaps, then, you will rest your senseless yapping.

 

[airomerix]

Actually our flankers will use neither R73 nor cannon for that purpose. We will use R77.



Tell me one thing, how did JF17 reached there? It was already flying there wasn't it? So, MKI would have detected it before entering Lahore and would have fired R77 before itself.



Another silly post. When I say BVR is more effective than WVR, it somehow gets interpreted as "the SAME RETARD thinks that WVR missiles are a waste and no longer needed."

Next I will say that assault rifle is more effective than a pistol and you will interpret it as "the Same RETARD thinks that pistol are a waste and are no longer needed."

No words needed. You can continue to to delusion yourself. I will not reply to you anymore. You compatriots like maverick may know lesser than you do but they atleast have the ability to read.

Its better if you dont. And im glad that you decided to shut the EF up.

On a last note, turn the pages honey. Just to defend your idiotic claims you have derailed the F-35's WVR capability while being ignorant about the its capability to field AIM-9X and JHMCS which will turn any jet with even a TVC into a ball of fire.

Next you are put the guns after BVR missiles only because you did not want to learn from Vietnam. Sad

 

[Mav3rick]

No it does not...
You said they they ordered/have Aim120C7... *FACEPLAM*
I provided enough pictures for you to see... may be your Brain could not process that.

Here again... a few Images.

And you still wonder...

es it does!!
Having trouble posting then? Check your post, accept your mistake and post again!
You mean pictures of IAF & RSAF pilots standing together? Is that what you mean by study? Next time there is an airshow where they display the F-35 & F-22 you must send your pilots for higher studies. Perhaps that's how you evaluated the performance of JFT by looking at brochure pictures! LOL. You are getting seriously pathetic and irony is that you most like know that already!

And yet I am sure!!

What are you ?
You cannot understand simple language and keep on ranting proof.

I gave the proof... as simple as it gets... read the post again... try to understand... If you can't get some one to make you understand as simple as that.

you don't know what are radars how they work.. what is phased array and what are planar arrays... what are TRMMs and what How different range of frequencies work in illuminating or tracking a target.
You don't know how the RCS works with additional pay load.... *FACEPLAM*
The Mig 21bison armed with 2 RVV-AE and a EL/L-8222 pod would still have RCS below 2m^2 allowing that to get within the striking range against and Ere-eye type target.

What ever I said till now went over your head.

There is no substitute for a Dumb brain and on top of that deliberate stupidity.

So you cannot understand simple posted messages right, perhaps you can understand a single word, let me spell it out for you "P R O O F"!!!

And I can understand your frustration at not being able to back any single claim with proof. You wanna live in a fairyland by all means do, but do not force the rest of us to follow. And dude, keep things linear, stop jumping here and there from RCS to TRMM to what not when demanded proof of Bisons's RCS (Clean).

Starting again, provide proof of Bisons clean RCS of 1m^2, provide proof of detection of 1m^2 targets at 400km's and beyond by the Phalcon and provide proof of Israeli involvement in KJ2K. Otherwise.........well, you know!

 

[danger007]

@Indians members... why you guys wasting time by talking some kid who arguing like child... and who don't have work... common guys you don't need to make him believe....

 

[airomerix]

Next time PAF pilots go to redflag. They will make sure that they get to drink a cup of coffee with couple of raptor pilots so that couple of idiots here may know that PAF has blue prints of the F-22. Pathetic and useless rants!

 

[abdulbarijan]

I have never said WVR will never occur. I have always said that rate of WVR will go on decreasing. Already BVR is the dominant form of action, and WVR is receding. Is it so hard to comprehend?

I haven't said PAF does not have BVR missile. I have said your Mirages aren't BVR capable.

I gave you a link from "times of India" saying other wise, as far as BVR combat goes... ok lets talk about it ..

You say WVR is receding and will decrease further in the future ...

What happens when two stealth aircrafts (the future) face each other ?? (BVR of WVR)

Since there is no other stealth fighter except the raptor lets take a raptor vs raptor scenario

APG-77 has a range of 300 odd KM for 5m2 RCS
The raptor's rumored RCS is 0.0001 m2

So put it in the equation you get 20 Km detection range from the front, which is nearly WVR combat, so you can deny it, but the fact is WVR will be there and it will be of grave importance otherwise you wont have scientists figuring out ways to get better turn rates, climb rates
and all that ---

 

[danger007]

Next time PAF pilots go to redflag. They will make sure that they get to drink a cup of coffee with couple of raptor pilots so that couple of idiots here may know that PAF has blue prints of the F-22. Pathetic and useless rants!

that BASE is Indian base... fielded only F-16's.... you are just fool to think we will give our base to other countries... just for money... If it is like that... we might give our base to USA or some other country already... we are not like Pak... Indian air force pilots went have flew F-16 ... look once in mirror...

 

[Skull and Bones]

Next time PAF pilots go to redflag. They will make sure that they get to drink a cup of coffee with couple of raptor pilots so that couple of idiots here may know that PAF has blue prints of the F-22. Pathetic and useless rants!

http://www.f-16.net/news_article1353.html

 

[Hellraiser007]

India has the info about F16 through singapore and MMRCA tender which evaluated close to staggering 660 parameters(We are also trying to patent the evaluation process). India also has powerful radars (AWACS and ground based) to know every move of PAF inside Pakistan.

India can teach a lesson to PAF at any time with su 30 MKI . The air doctrine and procurement going on now is aimed at maintaining IAF superiority in Indian subcontinent for decades to come.