How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[danger007]

If my little understanding is correct, it's ALWAYS been like this. India vs. Pakistan airforce ratio's been 1:3. This is just the reality that the Pakistanis have to plan for.

As far as the Navy is concerned, yes, an aircraft carrier's a big force projection. But HERE is where you are missing the point. A battle group such as USN's battle group has about 34 ships and one or more submarines as escorts over a couple of hundred miles worth of radius. In the IN's case, it's not a blue water navy, nor will it ever be able to bring the AC around the littoral waters of Pakistan. Too much danger. I am more than sure that PN's focus will be fast attack stealthy mid size crafts and PRIMARILY the submarines. A navy like IN (even though big in size) has TOO MUCH to risk by bringing an AC close by.

Even the USN keeps the AC in the middle with layers around it as it operates in the blue water. Frankly speaking, no one would want to touch the USN AC as they know the overwhelming back to the stone age response they'll get. BUT, its not the case for India. Plus the range is little in this conflict. Now if you move the AC a few hundred miles out in safety, then you'll still operate jets off of the AC but they'll lose that quick surprise advantage. In this scenario, these jets will have no differentiation as to if they are coming off land or off an AC. You could theoretically block supply lines of Pakistan due to the size of IN and have an AC back the offensive line up a few hundred miles, but then the primary role will become air-support / air superiority over the IN ships trying to establish a blockade.
This would again get neutralize if Pakistan really gets six or more subs, some of which may be nuclear capable. Plus, induction of many fast attack mid size ships will scatter the PN as these smaller AC are harder to detect. In a conflict, it'll be difficult to neutralize all of them immediately, some of these could provide long range SAM support and anti ship missile launching capability. Plus the stealthiness may help them stay off the radar for a while.

actually AC need not come to closer to Pakistan.... CBG will back naval blockade from behind with air support.... mostly CBG works independently so will not part of blockade but strike missions.... PN is too small to compare with IN so need to a blue water navy( no offense) ..... PN need a aviation wing.....

 

[Xracer]

Yes i do agree but one thing Even IAF strike package fire a missile without hitting any, PAF f-16 and FC-1 will be in defensive position ....

Present Pakistan and USA relation is in bad position... PAF can't hope spare parts from USA... So they can't use all of F-16's in pakistan inventory.... So im expecting PAF package will comprise 1 or 2 F-16 and remaining will be JF-17 may be 2-4....

chalo 2 marway gaye 1 to giray gaye
You Will bring Down a 15–20 million Jf17
we wiLL bring Down a 35-40 million Plane Su30 or MiG-29

 

[danger007]

chalo 2 marway gaye 1 to giray gaye
am i wrong

im not trolling bro... just giving my opinion .... and as relation with USA is in bad position you can't expect spares from them... don't you agree.....

 

[MilSpec]

Yes i do agree but one thing Even IAF strike package fire a missile without hitting any, PAF f-16 and FC-1 will be in defensive position ....

Present Pakistan and USA relation is in bad position... PAF can't hope spare parts from USA... So they can't use all of F-16's in pakistan inventory.... So im expecting PAF package will comprise 1 or 2 F-16 and remaining will be JF-17 may be 2-4....

One thing we need to keep in mind, despite all us-pak tensions, If India attacks, US will bail out it's old ally. This is my solid belief, you may disagree, but imo, if push comes to shove, US will not let PAF get overrun. Apart from that china is formidable power now, I wont be surprised to see 100 odd platforms flown to pak overnight to assist PAF.

As i said earlier, its all about planning. Element of surprise is all that matters.

 

[Storm Force]

very dangerous assumption been made by PDF seniors and mods re IAF splitting its air power into 2 in a indo pak war

Do the pakistanis expect CHINA to dive in and fight with you...

AND how long will the air war last.

IAF is may take a decisive edge within the first 24 hours if they plan and co ordinate a pre emptive air strike

In which case all TOOLS necessary to do the job ie SU30MKI ,,awacs ,,mirages rafales in future will be USED

they wont be held back for china which is wat PDF members are suggesting AND HOPING will occur..

 

[illusion8]

realistically speaking if such a air war comes into effect IAF's attrition rate would be slightly higher reason being is IAF would prefer flying it's older platforms first into Pakistan or against PAF and would leave the MKI's and the MMRCA for the second phase - that is after achieving some level of superiority or after reduction of some retaliatory strength of PAF.

Initially PAF might plan to reduce IAF strength on the tarmac with surprise raids and then will fall back into a defensive role supported by its G2A assets.

 

[MilSpec]

realistically speaking if such a air war comes into effect IAF's attrition rate would be slightly higher reason being is IAF would prefer flying it's older platforms first into Pakistan or against PAF and would leave the MKI's and the MMRCA for the second phase - that is after achieving some level of superiority or after reduction of some retaliatory strength of PAF.

Initially PAF might plan to reduce IAF strength on the tarmac with surprise raids and then will fall back into a defensive role supported by its G2A assets.

When you have an arsenal of sticks and swords, logic dictates use your better weapons for the first blow!

 

[MilSpec]

very dangerous assumption been made by PDF seniors and mods re IAF splitting its air power into 2 in a indo pak war

Do the pakistanis expect CHINA to dive in and fight with you...

AND how long will the air war last.

IAF is may take a decisive edge within the first 24 hours if they plan and co ordinate a pre emptive air strike

In which case all TOOLS necessary to do the job ie SU30MKI ,,awacs ,,mirages rafales in future will be USED

they wont be held back for china which is wat PDF members are suggesting AND HOPING will occur..

command centers of both countries are wll aware of what the war is going to be like. The most important aspect is damage assesment and redundancies in the Net-centric assets.

If PAF catches India sleeping and is able to cripple the ground radars, the war plans of India go into the dustbin.
If India can recover from an initial damage and still maintain it's integrated network, then Pakistan will be at big loss.

But as I said, this is not about India vs Pak, it's about countering MKI.

To conclude 42 pages,

Is MKI an lethal platform - Yes
Is MKI a threat to PAF - Yes
Can PAF (current) sucessfully counter PAF - yes
Is MKI overrated by Indian Members - Yes
All the armament of MKI is in public domain - No
Does PAF enough air assets to counter MKI- yes

Off topic observations:
Is IAF loosing its edge to PAF- Yes
Are there enough IAF assets - No
Will IAF (current) secure air supremacy - No (IMO)
Will PAF (current) have active airspace denial capability - Yes

Will china aid Pak in case of conflict - Absolute Yes
Will US aid Pak in case of conflict - Most likely

 

[MastanKhan]

Sandy,

I appreciate your post----the fact cannot be hidden---the numbers favor the iaf---plain and simple. Iaf can place more front line air superiority air dominance fighter aircraft in any arena than the paf.

What is boils down to again---until and unless the paf does not have any one aircraft that can take the pride of iaf mano a mano---it can only run for so long---iaf will outrun and out maneouver it in due time. Would that be the first 36 hours---48 or 72 hours----it also depends upon how many aircraft does the iaf think of losing to totally dominate the pakistani skies---would it leave them with enough aircraft to protect their flanks.

 

[danger007]

command centers of both countries are wll aware of what the war is going to be like. The most important aspect is damage assesment and redundancies in the Net-centric assets.

If PAF catches India sleeping and is able to cripple the ground radars, the war plans of India go into the dustbin.
If India can recover from an initial damage and still maintain it's integrated network, then Pakistan will be at big loss.

But as I said, this is not about India vs Pak, it's about countering MKI.

To conclude 42 pages,

Is MKI an lethal platform - Yes
Is MKI a threat to PAF - Yes
Can PAF (current) sucessfully counter PAF - yes
Is MKI overrated by Indian Members - Yes
All the armament of MKI is in public domain - No
Does PAF enough air assets to counter MKI- yes

Off topic observations:
Is IAF loosing its edge to PAF- Yes
Are there enough IAF assets - No
Will IAF (current) secure air supremacy - No (IMO)
Will PAF (current) have active airspace denial capability - Yes

Will china aid Pak in case of conflict - Absolute Yes
Will US aid Pak in case of conflict - Most likely

I will differ with you in some points...... Yes China will give aid to pakistan in case of conflict ....
but we have to remember two points...
1. India will never start a war with pakistan..... Until unless another Mumbai kinda attacks if it is originates from pakistan.... India will try to get support from other powers before launching attacks..... but thank god our relations are improving, both countries trying to improve relation....
2. If pakistan starts war or conflict, It is waste of time to expect support from USA..... because USA interest is changing dynamically..... they want to trade with us.... I am not saying USA will support us or something , but it will try to pressure both countries to withdraw troops or ceasefire.... later there high chances for imposing sanctions on pakistan......

my final conclusion is , I don't think India and pakistan will fight another war within 5 years if not a decade.....

 

[MilSpec]

Sandy,

I appreciate your post----the fact cannot be hidden---the numbers favor the iaf---plain and simple. Iaf can place more front line air superiority air dominance fighter aircraft in any arena than the paf.

What is boils down to again---until and unless the paf does not have any one aircraft that can take the pride of iaf mano a mano---it can only run for so long---iaf will outrun and out maneouver it in due time. Would that be the first 36 hours---48 or 72 hours----it also depends upon how many aircraft does the iaf think of losing to totally dominate the pakistani skies---would it leave them with enough aircraft to protect their flanks.

thanks you sir,


If the objective is active denial, then the disparity in numbers will not matter, hence the famous Minimum credible deterrence. I seriously doubt if PAF will wait till IAF get air supremacy to go trigger happy on N-bomb, hence If PAF or that matter PA starts loosing ground, there will either be the ceasefire enforced or my garden wont grow a damn thing for the next century.

 

[Viper0011.]

thanks you sir,


If the objective is active denial, then the disparity in numbers will not matter, hence the famous Minimum credible deterrence. I seriously doubt if PAF will wait till IAF get air supremacy to go trigger happy on N-bomb, hence If PAF or that matter PA starts loosing ground, there will either be the ceasefire enforced or my garden wont grow a damn thing for the next century.

I am IMPRESSED. Keep up the good work. For once, there's an objective discussion and not one's dik is bigger than the other!! Objectivity is what keeps people debate each other and learn from each other

 

[Rank]

Pakistan will never ever use its Blk52 at this time against IAF because of PK-US relations!

 

[ANPP]

Pakistan will never ever use its Blk52 at this time against IAF because of PK-US relations!

To defend own land every one use its all assets. PAF surly use Blk 52 against IAF to protect their skies.

 

[Bobby]

India-Pak will decide only on two basis.....Better War Management and ability to stay longer in war.....India can engage longer due to better economy.....so India had clear edge.....

@ topic

MKI 30 has biggest weapon....3D vector thrust...which puts it far better than F16....so good luck Pakistan