How ‘Islamist’ is the AKP?

[ovarel]

But but i thought you were a history buff and wanted to discuss these things. Since you seem to know oh so much maybe you could care to tell me more about that dead man you didnt care much about.

i told enough about him.Study them first,then prepare for the quiz.

 

[TrMhMt]

Who is with me??

Bro. every Turks are with you no doubt but who will be leader? there is no second Ataturk or Muhammad Ali Jinnah .... we see everyday the current leaders . they work for ziyonism and imperialists !!!

I hope one day one leader will appear and we will be united !!

 

[Zulkarneyn]

As a turkish person i feel responsible to enlighten my muslim pakistani brothers here.

Brothers, these secularist guys (yes, people who support secularism are called secularist) would die for a tear of M. Kemal.

If you (kemalists) want to systematize your whole existence, including the existense of Turkey and its future, on a guy whose sole plan was to remove islamic people and ideas from the empire then i got nothing to say to you. You say my previous post is full of ignorance (which i btw don't understand why) will you personally clarify for me why you find it neccesary to implement a muslim-hater racist dictator's ideas and ideals into a country whose population mostly consist of muslims?

As to your previous psot about Erdogan and Gul's "treachery". I think you guys live ina cave or something else, in the past 10 years Turkey has achieved so much respect and development.
1: its own weapon industry (tanks, airplanes, weapons etc.)
2: economy. The current Economy ranks in the top 15 of worlds countries. Our GDP per capita has more than doubled since those guys came to power. I really don't see the picture here.
How on earth can you claim such nonsense abott Turkey going backwards since these guys came to power?. Thanks Allah that CHP doesnt sit in power any longer.
3: social development in every level. Today our legal system isn't full of flaws and corruption as it was only 10 years ago. Kurds today, have the right to SING in their own language. they do not have to hide their identity in public any longer.
4: Our infrastructure is growing amazingly fast. Both in cities and between cities. We have developed fast trains. We have developed metro in cities like Kayseri etc. We have at least 50 more universities since they came top power.

Just follow the internatinal newspapers. They talk about how Turkey have developed in every field. How they challenge contemporary powers (Germany, France, UK EVEN the US).

Get out of your cave, where Kemal still is your God. Wake up people we don't live in the 20th century corrupt, poor, muslim-hater, opressor Turkey anymore. And if you are unable to percieve that, well i have absolutely nothing to say to that.

ps you are not with a muslim if you repeatedly want to ban our muslim sisters headscarves. If you have difficulty in following me, you can write in Turkish, German or Danish.


M. Kemal: "I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience"

If this is your ideal form of government, i really doubt about your claims to Islam.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I agree... Turkey has increasingly come under the spotlight under the current governments and not the past...

However I do think that the current governments are only using Islam to gain confidence of their people... I have not seen anything from them yet to convince me that they are serious about Islam...

 

[Jigs]

As a turkish person i feel responsible to enlighten my muslim pakistani brothers here.

Brothers, these secularist guys (yes, people who support secularism are called secularist) would die for a tear of M. Kemal.

If you (kemalists) want to systematize your whole existence, including the existense of Turkey and its future, on a guy whose sole plan was to remove islamic people and ideas from the empire then i got nothing to say to you. You say my previous post is full of ignorance (which i btw don't understand why) will you personally clarify for me why you find it neccesary to implement a muslim-hater racist dictator's ideas and ideals into a country whose population mostly consist of muslims?

As to your previous psot about Erdogan and Gul's "treachery". I think you guys live ina cave or something else, in the past 10 years Turkey has achieved so much respect and development.
1: its own weapon industry (tanks, airplanes, weapons etc.)
2: economy. The current Economy ranks in the top 15 of worlds countries. Our GDP per capita has more than doubled since those guys came to power. I really don't see the picture here.
How on earth can you claim such nonsense abott Turkey going backwards since these guys came to power?. Thanks Allah that CHP doesnt sit in power any longer.
3: social development in every level. Today our legal system isn't full of flaws and corruption as it was only 10 years ago. Kurds today, have the right to SING in their own language. they do not have to hide their identity in public any longer.
4: Our infrastructure is growing amazingly fast. Both in cities and between cities. We have developed fast trains. We have developed metro in cities like Kayseri etc. We have at least 50 more universities since they came top power.

Just follow the internatinal newspapers. They talk about how Turkey have developed in every field. How they challenge contemporary powers (Germany, France, UK EVEN the US).

Get out of your cave, where Kemal still is your God. Wake up people we don't live in the 20th century corrupt, poor, muslim-hater, opressor Turkey anymore. And if you are unable to percieve that, well i have absolutely nothing to say to that.

ps you are not with a muslim if you repeatedly want to ban our muslim sisters headscarves. If you have difficulty in following me, you can write in Turkish, German or Danish.

On our defence industry that has been in development since the 70s and was not the work of the AKP government. Some of the economic work was theirs but we are in a very large amount of debt currently because of it (it will come around and bite us sooner or later) As far as the competeing with France/Germany/UK and U.S. that is a big laugh. Especially when it comes to defence and really most anything technogical we are very lacking here. It is smarter if you wait till 2020-25 then compare us to Italy and Spain. (Most see us reaching their GDP by this time) But Germany ? That will take some considerable time. Making Tofas cars is not going to get us there.

 

[Cerian]

As a turkish person i feel responsible to enlighten my muslim pakistani brothers here.

Brothers, these secularist guys (yes, people who support secularism are called secularist) would die for a tear of M. Kemal.

Don't be delusional. French style secularism (laicism) is totally different than secular style of UK and US. Problem is, French style is not a good application when it comes to Turkey and its past history. Their system works because of the corrupt church prior to revolution and hatred of people to all clergymen, which is not the case in Turkey. You can argue whether corruption is real or not inside the religious groups of Turkey, but you can't say people hate these groups. If the latter was the truth, these groups wouldn't have survived for decades. Thus, French style secularism is not applicable in here, but similar secular system like United Kingdom has.

 

[ovarel]

I agree... Turkey has increasingly come under the spotlight under the current governments and not the past...

However I do think that the current governments are only using Islam to gain confidence of their people... I have not seen anything from them yet to convince me that they are serious about Islam...

maybe they should get Turkey out of Nato to satisfy you but it would be the dummest thing they have ever do.

i have an impression that you like erbakan?

 

[Cerian]

On our defence industry that has been in development since the 70s and was not the work of the AKP government. Some of the economic work was theirs but we are in a very large amount of debt currently because of it (it will come around and bite us sooner or later)

About your debt comment, it can't be more wrong. Turkey is one of the few countries,who almost meets maastricht criteria in EU. Debt is not the problem if you can arrange how to pay back. Public debt in Turkey must be, if I'm not mistaken, around 45% to our GDP. Which is not lot if you can manage it and it seems manageable, for now anyways. They are planning to reduce the percentage in the coming years so, we will see.

 

[Jigs]

About your debt comment, it can't be more wrong. Turkey is one of the few countries,who almost meets maastricht criteria in EU. Debt is not the problem if you can arrange how to pay back. Public debt in Turkey must be, if I'm not mistaken, around 45% to our GDP. Which is not lot if you can manage it and it seems manageable, for now anyways. They are planning to reduce the percentage in the coming years so, we will see.

I was comparing it inline with pervious governments and not countries. Also our trade deficit widening is another concern.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Don't be delusional. French style secularism (laicism) is totally different than secular style of UK and US. Problem is, French style is not a good application when it comes to Turkey and its past history. Their system works because of the corrupt church prior to revolution and hatred of people to all clergymen, which is not the case in Turkey. You can argue whether corruption is real or not inside the religious groups of Turkey, but you can't say people hate these groups. If the latter was the truth, these groups wouldn't have survived for decades. Thus, French style secularism is not applicable in here, but similar secular system like United Kingdom has.

I don't get you. How would they not survive? You cannot erase an islamic identity in just 70 or so years. An islamic identity that has survied for centuries.
- Baning veils in Universities and official buildings
- Undermining islam via the media and other government controlled institutions.

These are clearly indications that illustrate an anti religion agenda, dont you agree?

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

maybe they should get Turkey out of Nato to satisfy you but it would be the dummest thing they have ever do.

i have an impression that you like erbakan?

LOL... I dont like any of these leaders... They have destroyed our land... be it the secularists or the so called islamists...

 

[Cerian]

I was comparing it inline with pervious governments and not countries. Also our trade deficit widening is another concern.

Sorry my bad. Deficit is really worrisome I agree.

 

[ovarel]

I don't get you. How would they not survive? You cannot erase an islamic identity in just 70 or so years. An islamic identity that has survied for centuries.
- Baning veils in Universities and official buildings
- Undermining islam via the media and other government controlled institutions.

These are clearly indications that illustrate an anti religion agenda, dont you agree?

this is what laicism.you consider religions as obstacles for getting developed and you follow an anti-islamic(or whatever the religion) agenda.That simple.

 

[Cerian]

I don't get you. How would they not survive? You cannot erase an islamic identity in just 70 or so years. An islamic identity that has survied for centuries.
- Baning veils in Universities and official buildings
- Undermining islam via the media and other government controlled institutions.

These are clearly indications that illustrate an anti religion agenda, dont you agree?

I was just merely pointing the fact that French laicism is broken, not the secular system as a whole.

 

[TrMhMt]

@Zulkarneyn

I said you " people can not be Secular !! only societies can be secular" but your sick brain doesn't recognize this !! and "dieing for a tear" is your sick brain's claim !!!
If he was a muslim-hater he wouldn't allow Islam in my country and opened TBMM with prays !!! This proves you are real Ataturk hater.

1: while Ataturk alive, Turkiey could produce its own planes, tanks and weapons. We sold that planes to Belgium and a few different countries.

2: Turkiye was 15. of world since Attaurk alive and after he died it passed nearly 100 years but still we are 15. of world. Its not Attaturk's mistake. And chp and akp is the same for us !!

3: Kurds had problem when ottoman empire strong and still they are problem of this region not only for Turkiye ... These types rights were limited after pkk terrorism started !! But we Turks have great forgiveness and toleration. We still give their rights. we do not do other islamic countries same as Iran, Iraq and Syria...

4: Yes we are developing fast and we uses Ataturk's rail ways still. That railways were built while Ataturk alive. shame us !! I am from Kayseri i know it very well so do not mention it !!

who lives in caves we can see !! still your types compare himself between Ataturk who is passed away 100 years ago and think the situation was easy as now a days !! and akp is the bast sample of corruption of Turkish history. this has been proved by wikileaks doc.s ... you are not a muslim for us coz you claim someone who is passed away !!!

These kind of problems source is you are !! you have supported Neco and refah than you created these problems !! before it my teacher could teach us with headscarves. And my sister could go to Uni.do not worry we have enough English to explain what we want to say? you and me not native so its no problem can be some mistakes !!

As everybody saw you are real Ataturk hater !! and you claim someone as muslim-hater this type claim is not allowed by Islam !! so you are not muslim anymore for me !!! other thing, you use same tactic of akp and use Islam to effect muslims and also you histrionics of them same as akp does right now !!