How is china constructing expressway so efficiently?

[Sinhala]

dude you need to seriously get your math fixed before you raise any question. $112 billion for 10,000 km in 2011, which comes to an average cost of $10+ million/per km, is more than enough to build decent expressways, even in East Europe. However, I am not sure if the $112 billion was spent in 2011 alone, the exact amount might be slightly lower. The projects started in 2011 will cost more than $250 billion in total over the next few years.

To answer your initial question, when we are comparing China to US, labor/regulation/land acquisition cost are significant reasons behind the huge disparities between overall costs. However, when comparing SL to China, this may not be the case. China has a few advantages in terms of cost reduction that SL does not have, mainly 1, the scale of the projects; extremely large number of projects are underway in China at the same time, this saves a lot of money because China is able to allocate the sources more efficiently and 2. China has been able to build the whole industry chain for highway/subway/HSR construction; A lot of equipments will be extremely expensive for SL to rent from European companies (buying is prohibitively expensive), but China produces such equipment at a much lower cost. 3. China has trained massive amount of engineers in the construction area, while SL may have to hire European experts who charge a ridiculous amount; you can never imagine how much extra cost caused by hiring experts to do your job. Due to such reasons, even if SL labor might be lower, it could probably cost more to build similar roads in SL, since a lot of money just goes to those higher on the supply ladder.

The mind blowing construction speed of Chinese expressways is mostly due to its financing scheme. Unlike US, China does not adopt a federal financing policy through fuel tax. Chinese central government allows provincial and municipal governments to corporate with private companies to jointly build and operate the expressways, and *collect tolls*. Chinese expressways are money printing machines as the profit is so huge that everyone is trying to get a piece of the cake. This of course comes at the cost of all Chinese, and is hampering the even distribution of Chinese economy to an extent.

SL Engineers earn wages on par or in excess to foreign Engineers lol I personally know the senior level RDA Engineer attached to the CKE project, he lives in 3 story house, has brand new BMW, 08 benz and a brand new government supplied Toyota Prado. I have no doubt he has poured colossal amount of money into that house. Also Engineers in SL get a special tax free permits for cars and most other things.

Engineers attract the highest wages of any profession in the country.

Also economics of scale does not apply here in the same efficiency as single unit systems such as power plants.

And sorry I didn't do the maths, I did it later on, which I said it, if you read the post above.

 

[fgdrey189]

Reason of cost escalation.

1. Delay
a) Delay due to land acquisition, China has no problem in this area , as in communist rule, everything belong to copmmunist paRTY.
2. Compensation :
a) High in non communist country, as Land price has gone up, the govt end up paying more money. so cost escalate.
3. corruption:
a) Cost escalated due to it.
4. Salaries
a) the salaries are high in non-communists country

It's yours excuse.Many democratic countries are much efficient in expressway construction than India even though india has a huge population and many much low salary workers.
After 65 years of independence,India has only less than 1000km expressways(by Indian standard),the reasons is very obvious,that is India is full of many impotent politicians and lazy people.

 

[fgdrey189]

11000km of expressways a year,and about 400km for each province in average,I think it's not a difficult task at all for China.
[CHN] Chinese Expressways • 中国高速 - Page 117 - SkyscraperCity
Motorway openings around the world - Page 16 - SkyscraperCity

 

[huskie]

I did not notice your later posts, my bad. yeah if the math is right, it should not be a problem right?

regarding the engineers I am not referring to regular engineers. for instance, if the project needs to dig a tunnel through a mountain and decides to use shielding construction, then you probably need to rent a TBM and hire experts in charge of tunnel excavation and shielding. this is just one such example.

and scale certainly plays an important role here. if there are a large pool of companies and enough equipment that were created due to previous projects, that will give you a lot of options and at least allow you to choose the right construction team in the shortest period. that means a lot of money in the construction business.

SL Engineers earn wages on par or in excess to foreign Engineers lol I personally know the senior level RDA Engineer attached to the CKE project, he lives in 3 story house, has brand new BMW, 08 benz and a brand new government supplied Toyota Prado. I have no doubt he has poured colossal amount of money into that house. Also Engineers in SL get a special tax free permits for cars and most other things.

Engineers attract the highest wages of any profession in the country.

Also economics of scale does not apply here in the same efficiency as single unit systems such as power plants.

And sorry I didn't do the maths, I did it later on, which I said it, if you read the post above.

 

[shuttler]

These are the expressways and infrastructures that we are going to build for Sri Lanka：

Sri Lanka to build new roads with Chinese funds
14 September 2012

http://www.roadtraffic-technology.com/news/newssri-lanka-build-new-roads-chinese-funds

South Sri Lanka is set for new roads and flyovers in a LKR40bn ($303m) investment. The construction contract has been awarded to China State Construction Engineering, which will build roads and flyovers in Hambantota, a city in the Southern Province.

Of the $303m, the Chinese government is providing 85% ($240m) in loans through Exim Bank of China, while the rest is being met by the Sri Lankan government.

Sri Lanka Media and Information Minister Keheliya Rambukwelle said that the project will turn Hambantota into a transport hub.

The new road and flyover contract has been awarded as a part of Hambantota Hub Development Project, Rambukwelle noted.

The infrastructure project involves the construction of 64km of roads and flyovers, including a 23.34km stretch from Mirijjewila to Sooriyawewa, an 18.28km road from Sooriyawewa, Moraketiya to Embilipitiya, and a 16.18km road from Ranna to Wetiya.

In addition, the Chinese firm will build a 6.64km outer circular road in Hambantota and an 18.53km road from Sooriyawewa to Wetiya, along with other flyovers at Wetiya-Narnadagaswewa.

The Chinese government is also financing a $361m port, a $209m airport and various other infrastructure projects in the city.

Exim Bank had previously provided funds for similar road projects in Sri Lanka - 126km Southern Expressway running from Colombo to Matara on the south coast, which was inaugurated in November 2011, was constructed with investment of over $700m; and A9 Expressway, a 321km-stretch connecting Kandy with Jaffna, was reconstructed with $520m.

*****

These are the projects that we are contracted to build for Sri Lanka‘s ports：

China Sri Lanka Development project – The Hambantota Development Zone, which the China will help build, will include an International Container port, a bunkering system, an oil refinery, an International Airport and other facilities. It is expected to cost about US$1 billion and the China are said to be financing more than 85% of the project.

Construction on the first phase of the project is begun and is due to be completed in three years. The entire project is scheduled to be completed in the next 10 years.

China Sri Lanka Cooperation on the project in Hambantota, 240 kilometers South of the Sri Lanka capital, Colombo, into a major transshipment hub.

Hambantota Infrastructure will help service hundreds of ships that ply the waters to the south of Sri Lanka.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Sri_Lanka_relations

and it opens for business！

Sri Lanka's Chinese-built port opens for business


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ixGLCDX0supLQ6LBy0UxHfc-qpDw?docId=CNG.7a4b171af9c3a48e7611d1e1cda88a09.571

(AFP) – Jun 5, 2012

COLOMBO — Sri Lanka's first Chinese-built port, a strong symbol of Beijing's investment in South Asia, opened for international shipping on Wednesday with the handling of 1,000 cars from India.

The $1.5-billion deep-sea port in southern Hambantota, the home constituency of President Mahinda Rajapakse, straddles a major east-west shipping lane used by 200 to 300 international vessels daily.

The idea of the project, which was delayed by just over a year, is to create a new logistics hub to handle trans-shipments from the Asian region and provide a boost to Sri Lanka's economy as it recovers from decades of civil war.

Regional power India turned down the offer to construct the deep-sea port saying it was not commercially viable, but China's presence created unease in New Delhi which views Sri Lanka as being firmly in its sphere of influence.

China has since agreed to build a second port in Sri Lanka's capital Colombo and Chinese firms have pledged investments amounting to $50 billion spread over the next 10 to 15 years, according to Sri Lanka's trade ministry.

Elsewhere in South Asia, China has funded port facilities in Pakistan, a long-standing ally, and has plans for rail projects in Nepal, a traditionally India-aligned country where Beijing is increasingly influential.

Bangladesh has asked for Chinese help to build a port and Beijing recently opened an embassy for the first time in the Maldives.

According to Charu Lata Hogg, an analyst at Chatham House, a London-based think-tank, India has come to terms with China in its backyard.

"There seems to be a tacit understanding that their commercial interests can be complementary," Hogg told AFP. "Indian cars going through a Chinese-built port in Sri Lanka reveals a lot about this relationship."

The first shipment of cars on Wednesday in Hambantota, 240 kilometres (150 miles) south of Colombo, came from the south Indian port of Chennai and is destined for Algeria.

The car carrier Asian Sun docked on Wednesday morning to be received by Sri Lanka Port Authority Chairman Priyath Wickrama.

*****

China firm to build Sri Lanka's new port city

Updated: 2012-07-11 11:18(Xinhua)

Chinadaily

COLOMBO -- China Merchant International has already embarked on a $500 million port expansion project in the Colombo harbor, Priyath Bandu Wickrama, chairman of Sri Lanka Ports Authority, said on Tuesday.

Sri Lanka is expecting $15 billion in investment from a new "port city" that will be built on land reclaimed by the sea in the capital, the official said.

"China Harbour Engineering Corporation has already been given the contract for the project," he said.

The government hopes to commence work in October on the ambitious project that will reclaim 243 acres (98.4 hectares) from the sea near the Colombo port, according to Wickrama.

While addressing a forum in the capital, Wickrama noted that the investment was expected to flow in during the next ten years, mainly from hotels, apartments and shopping malls.

"A Formula One racetrack, mini-golf course and yacht marina are also among the plans that are expected to bring in billions of dollars," he added.

When the proposal was earlier announced in local media it drew objections from environmentalists who raised the issue of destroying the ecosystem on the coastal belt near some of the most expensive real estates in the country.

 

[Sinhala]

I did not notice your later posts, my bad. yeah if the math is right, it should not be a problem right?

regarding the engineers I am not referring to regular engineers. for instance, if the project needs to dig a tunnel through a mountain and decides to use shielding construction, then you probably need to rent a TBM and hire experts in charge of tunnel excavation and shielding. this is just one such example.

and scale certainly plays an important role here. if there are a large pool of companies and enough equipment that were created due to previous projects, that will give you a lot of options and at least allow you to choose the right construction team in the shortest period. that means a lot of money in the construction business.

you cant sit there on your chair and make claims with no understanding of Engineering.
@shuttler do you work for China State Construction Engineering?

Btw we still dont have a source for 112 Billion USD on expressways

 

[shuttler]

you cant sit there on your chair and make claims with no understanding of Engineering.
@shuttler do you work for China State Construction Engineering?

Btw we still dont have a source for 112 Billion USD on expressways

No, my friend, I am not working for the construction company.

 

[Sinhala]

No, my friend, I am not working for the construction company.

Just thought because you said.

These are the expressways and infrastructures that we are going to build for Sri Lanka：

 

[huskie]

considering my involvement with several infrastructure projects, I am pretty sure my "understanding of engineering" is far beyond "personally knowing an engineer". anyway, I don't see what the fuss is all about, you asked some questions, I gave my answers, and you don't accept them. that is just fine with me, I don't care if you keep asking the same questions again and again.

you cant sit there on your chair and make claims with no understanding of Engineering.
@shuttler do you work for China State Construction Engineering?

Btw we still dont have a source for 112 Billion USD on expressways

 

[tranquilium]

What? What you said doesn't make any sense at all.

1) they have copied bulk of the designs from other places so very low money for R&D

Okay, what kind of R&D does road building require and can be copied? Are you taking about the fine, century old "art" of producing asphalt or driving a construction truck? If you are taking about the physical layout, structure of the road, how exactly is the design gonna be copied? Find a piece of land with identical geographic characteristic?

2) the government is all powerful and does not need to satisfy anyone in terms of "buying" the land from the people for the roads as it happens in most other countries. it can take it at will.

No, the government in China buys land and pays the previous owner money just like everyone else. The payment is also typically quite generous and quite a lot of people got rich overnight since their places of residence that are at a critical location.

3) biggest cost cutter - very low cost of labor (not necessarily by willful acceptance by the workers)

Are you aware the fact that the salary for construction workers are higher than most labor based roles in China? This is because road construction is considered a occupation with risk, thus they are compensated accordingly. Also, Chinese salary, while low by European and US standards, is quite a bit higher than southeastern Asian or Indian salaries, especially given the fact that the Chinese work force generally has much higher level of education.

Question to my Chinese counterparts - does china have unions like we have who lobby for higher wages? hows that treated there?

This is one of the key issues. Yes, there are unions in China, but they are designed to smooth the relationship between the employer and the employee. So it is an entity that actually helps with the work progress rather than obstructing it through red tape and frequent strikes.

Here is a short story that quite nicely illustrate the difference between Chinese workers and workers from a lot of other countries:
at the beginning the a Chinese worker and another worker are both working 8 hours a day for $20 dollars an hour and they are living comfortably off that salary.
One day the boss announced that the company is paying them $40 dollars an hour for the same work. Do you know their response?
The other worker cheered and said: "Yay, now I only need to work 4 hours a day now."
The Chinese worker cheered and said: "Yay, now I can make twice as much a day now."

In China, when a road needs to be constructed, the workers will work, weather permitting, 24 hours a day in three shifts to get the job done. The same thing cannot be said for some other countries.
As far as cost goes, China has a fully developed industry base. This means no equipment or product need to be purchased from foreign sources. This alone drastically reduce the cost of the projects. Chinese mega-projects are also performed under very heavy scrutiny and supervision, attempt to profit illegally from the projects land you a one way ticket to the front of a fire squad no matter who you are. This tends to cut down corruption greatly, thus reducing the cost.
As far as quality goes, nowadays, the Chinese engineers and construction companies are legally bounded to the quality of their design works. This means if a bridge collapsed due to design flaws, then the engineer in question will end up in jail and if the bridge collapsed due to construction quality, the heads of the company will end up in jail.

 

[cirr]

China's labour cost，already several times higher than India's，is rising 10-15% per annum and will be remained at this rate of increase for at least the next 5 years。This is part of government policies to put more money in people's pocket，thereby raising the level of domestic consumption。