How "Indigenous" is Dhruv/ALH?

[scrumpy]

Parts could be procured from another location in case
1) The technology to create those parts do not exist with the company. or
2) It is cheaper to import the parts instead of manufacturing them locally.

I think the question should not be about the product being indigenous. It should be about the fate of the final product being dependent on the whims some suppliers. The main question should be about the ability of HAL to source the parts from other locations or replace them with alternatives or fabricate them in house in case any of the suppliers are not able to or are unwilling to keep supplying them with parts.

Even if the machine is a 100% indigenous, the key component to fly them is the fuel. This in India is mostly imported.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Trying to prove something to him is like banging your head against a concrete wall and I am surprised so many Indians are still trying.

Forget it people, unless you want your skull cracked.

Move on to something sensible. Let him leave live in his ignorance bliss.

 

[CONNAN]

Trying to prove something to him is like banging your head against a concrete wall and I am surprised so many Indians are still trying.

Forget it people, unless you want your skull cracked.

Move on to something sensible. Let him leave live in his ignorance bliss.

well said bubby

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Trying to prove something to him is like banging your head against a concrete wall and I am surprised so many Indians are still trying.

Forget it people, unless you want your skull cracked.

Move on to something sensible. Let him leave live in his ignorance bliss.

So is it wright that members like you in state of denial are as always deluded? What have you proven me? The thread is about how indigenous is Dhruv/ALH and i am looking for indian indigenous technical contribution. Non have proven me anything other then F-22 Gripen analogies and some couldn't resist to show their part of intellectual thinking and did not hesitate to bring cakes and pies analogies as well.
Again, the topic being. What has India contributed in this project?
Indians brag about Shakti engine being mostly indian while I have proven that not more then 10% is actually indian development while 90% was developed by France.
I know reality is quite bitter for people like you.

 

[manojb]

The thread is about how indigenous is Dhruv/ALH and i am looking for indian indigenous technical contribution.

Its 0-100%(you can pick any number) if that makes you happy and cures your "I-am-jealous-of-my-neighbor" or whatever .. syndrome.

 

[ramu]

So is it right that members like you in state of denial are as always deluded?

5% -> 10% -> 15 % -> ???

What have you proven about Dhruv?

Janes, a trusted source in defence industry : Here is an extract for which I have given the source.

India has finalised a USD50.7 million deal to supply Ecuador with seven Dhruv multirole advanced light helicopters: its first ever major overseas sale of an indigenously developed military platform.

The thread is about how indigenous is Dhruv/ALH and I am looking for Indian indigenous technical contribution.

Sorry I can't take you to HAL, Bangalore even if I wanted to.

Again, the topic being. What has India contributed in this project?

Nothing but X% according to you and that X has changes from 5 to 15.

Indians brag about Shakti engine being mostly indian while I have proven that not more then 10% is actually indian development while 90% was developed by France.

Where do you get the numbers. I have seen that you are fond of 10% for some reason. Are you in some way related to Mr. 10% ?

 

[Haanzo]

This sounds more like a ego satisfaction remark then actual reality.
Perhaps you can show some technical contrition of India in Dhruv project. Dhruv from inside out is foreigner technology all the way.

i don wanna start an old flame war again ...there have been many threads here citing jf-17 as pakistans own creation .....when you are not even manufacturing it with your own raw materials ....... they come as knocked down kits from china right ???please prove me wrong on this count i will leave this forum

 

[Haanzo]

AND GROWLER im not debating weather it is ingenious or not , most of the chopper is being built here , it has satisfied the user -- army and the iaf - no comparable platform is being manufactured in pakistan .... forget exporting , it satisfied the stringent performance criteria set by the iaf , it can land at very hig altitudes eg. siachen what else do we want ...... isnt gripen loved by the swedish air force ???? do they crib about not having an ingenious engine ???? stop this teenagers behaviour ...yes not all the components are indian i accept but whats the point WONT IT FLY IF IT DOES NOT HAVE COMPLETE INDIAN STUFF ...... EVERYBODY STOP THIS YOUR DICK IS SHORTER CONTEST

 

[EyelessInGaza]

So, Desiman and Growler, these are my conclusions. Slightly long post, but hopefully it will be worth it.

First my thanks to both of you. Aside from the insults, , it was a good learning experience for me.

I am dividing aviation tech and capability into four stages.

Stage 1 is when you just buy the aircraft 'off the shelf'.

Stage 2 is when you have some input in the construction of the aircraft, but it is very limited, and essentially you assemble the plane that is manufactured by your partner.

Stage 3 is when you design the craft, are responsible for its performance, testing and limitations.

In other words, in this stage of tech development, you 'carry the can' for the aircraft performance. You check it's flight envelope, the way the systems are integrated, how it works under various conditions, and also the price.

If the product fails, well you are responsible. Not the component manufacturers. And, if you sell it to third parties, you are responsible for performance.

Stage 4 is when, apart from the above, you also are responsible for the development of key components - in Dhruv's case, say the engine, rotors, etc.

It is clear to me that India is in stage 3.

So, if by indigenous we mean stage 4 capability, I would agree with Growler.

But, being at stage 3 is a very significant tech capability IMO. Heck I do not know too many developing countries that have done this (unless you call China one, and it is more at stage 4). In fact there are some developed countries that may not have this capability.

I think the next step for India is to get to stage 4, and I think we will get there some day.

 

[intelarpit]

At the end of the day with 5-15% indigenous technology we have this

 

[indian_warrior]

WOW, It reached from 0 to 15%.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Friends We have moved from Dhruv to LCH......... Y still feeding this stupid thread.
Kind advice to the thread starter go and find what r the parts in LCH are foriegn.... U wil have some thing new to shout at..........

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Its 0-100%(you can pick any number) if that makes you happy and cures your "I-am-jealous-of-my-neighbor" or whatever .. syndrome.

Perhaps you can for once take your time out from trolling around and put your minute brain into positive use and show me some indian technologies in Dhruv that contributes to "indigenously" helicopter.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

At the end of the day with 5-15% indigenous technology we have this

Can you provide few details of Indian indigenous contribution other then assembling foreigner technologies?

 

[Hulk]

Can you provide few details of Indian indigenous contribution other then assembling foreigner technologies?

Wao someone spent lot of time trying to create this image to show that Dhruv is not indigenous. I care 2 hoots, we do not deny that we buy foreign parts, as long as we can make it at home I am fine.