How "Indigenous" is Dhruv/ALH?

[ramu]

Can you provide few details of Indian indigenous contribution other then assembling foreigner technologies?

Short term memory loss.

Sorry we cannot provide any more details as it risks giving away vital secrets of HAL.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Stage 1 is when you just buy the aircraft 'off the shelf'.

Stage 2 is when you have some input in the construction of the aircraft, but it is very limited, and essentially you assemble the plane that is manufactured by your partner.

Stage 3 is when you design the craft, are responsible for its performance, testing and limitations.

Stage 4 is when, apart from the above, you also are responsible for the development of key components - in Dhruv's case, say the engine, rotors, etc.
It is clear to me that India is in stage 3.

Thank you for yet again providing some positive input in this thread.
With all due respect, Dhruv, engine, rotors, etc are mostly foreigner technology. Indian technical contribution in Sakti engine is 10%.
IMO Indian contribution is in mostly stage 2 and barely in stage 3.
India enjoys luxury of foreigner input in its projects. India is simply too much dependent on non-indian technologies and the huge amount of financial support it has, multi national companies are willing to provide designs and technologies which are not just off the shelf.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Short term memory loss.

Sorry we cannot provide any more details as it risks giving away vital secrets of HAL.

Does HAL even have any secrets other then foreigner technologies culled together? And oh HAL DRDO and co are doing a great job keeping their brain washed fanboys like you in illusions that everything is "indigenously" developed in India. Giving credit where it is due is beyond acceptance for most of the citizens like you.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Wao someone spent lot of time trying to create this image to show that Dhruv is not indigenous. I care 2 hoots, we do not deny that we buy foreign parts, as long as we can make it at home I am fine.

Does it looks like I spend that much time when the research provides all the details that most of deluded Indians are refuting because its beyond their ego?

 

[ramu]

Thank you for yet again providing some positive input in this thread.
With all due respect, Dhruv, engine, rotors, etc are mostly foreigner technology. Indian technical contribution in Sakti engine is 10%.
IMO Indian contribution is in mostly stage 2 and barely in stage 3.
India enjoys luxury foreigner input in its projects. India is simply too much depend on non-indian technologies and the huge amount of financial support it has, multi national companies are willing to provide designs and technologies which are not just off the shelf.

Sugar coated words with little substance. In your opinion it is the knock down / ready made kits for assembly. Well done. You have remained consistent with your opinion. Wonder how the progression from 0 to 15% happened.

About the statement in bold, in the context of Dhruv and the variants that will follow, it makes no sense. With no single technology partner and with full ToT and unlimited license to manufacture each of the sub systems, most of your fears are what you wish for (than what is the reality).

Turbomeca the collaborator for the critical Engine has setup a unit in Bangalore in order to interface with HAL better. With so much investment in the Indian defence space and with many Indians in key position in the company, the Dhruv project will be a smash hit. Just wait and watch.

Turbomeca Strengthens Presence in India With Turbomeca India Engines
======================================================

(Bordes, February 15, 2010) -- "The main purpose of this new establishment in Bangalore, India, is to set up a major local interface with the key helicopter manufacturer and Indian operators. This new set-up reinforces our local partnership in order to improve our response to the requirements of an ever-expanding market", claims Satish Kirtikar, managing director of Turbomeca India.

With its experienced team of customer support managers and field representatives, Turbomeca India Engines Private Ltd. supplements the local Turbomeca set-up for Indian helicopter manufacturer HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.) which ensures support for military customers.

This new site will provide a wider cover for the proximity services required by a more efficient customer and product support for helicopter fleets.

A partner for civil and military fleets

In India, Turbomeca leads the market for helicopter engines with more than a 65% share of the market. In 2003, numerous contracts for several hundred TM 333 and Ardiden 1H1 / Shakti engines were signed with HAL. The Indian helicopter manufacturer has already received an order for 159 Dhruv equipped with Ardiden 1H1 engines.

The Turbomeca Arriel engine also equips the 27 Dauphin helicopters operated by Pawan Hans, the largest Indian civil operator which carries out operations in oil and gas exploration and paramedical, medical and tourism missions.

Turbomeca Strengthens Presence in India With Turbomeca India Engines - ASDNews

 

[Myth_buster_1]

To me why indians are P!ssed off at me is because I woke them up from a dream that Dhruv and such projects are not R&D by India. So it sounds like. Growler! why did you have to wake us up and shatter our myth!?

 

[ramu]

Does HAL even have any secrets other then foreigner technologies culled together? And oh HAL DRDO and co are doing a great job keeping their brain washed fanboys like you in illusions that everything is "indigenously" developed in India. Giving credit where it is due is beyond acceptance for most of the citizens like you.

HAL does not require a certificate from you of all the people. You have lost all credibility as your crystal ball is as useless as your opinion.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Sugar coated words with little substance. In your opinion it is the knock down / ready made kits for assembly. Well done. You have remained consistent with your opinion. Wonder how the progression from 0 to 15% happened.

About the statement in bold, in the context of Dhruv and the variants that will follow, it makes no sense. With no single technology partner and with full ToT and unlimited license to manufacture each of the sub systems, most of your fears are what you wish for that what is the reality.

Turbomeca the collaborator for the critical Engine has setup a unit in Bangalore in order to interface with HAL better. With so much investment in the Indian defence space and with many Indians in key position in the company, the Dhruv project will be a smash hit. Just wait and watch.

Candy-frost coated dude. The more you talk the more you embarrass yourself and prove us how much state of denial you are in. So far you have only talked around your way dodging my thread with your senseless posts.

Turbomeca confirms its strong link with India

Bangalore, 9 February 2005

Turbomeca, world leader in helicopter engines, has confirmed its strong link with India, following the signing of three major contracts concerning the Dhruv. This is the result of a longstanding and successful relationship between Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) and Turbomeca which began back in 1961, when the Turbomeca Artouste engine was first licensed to power the Indian Armed Forces’ Chetak (Alouette) and Cheetah (Lama) fleets. In February 2003, Turbomeca and HAL signed three major contracts One contract covers the co-development and co-production of Ardiden 1H (Indian name: Shakti) engines: a large number of Ardiden 1H / Shakti engines are expected to be produced. 11 % of the development will be carried by HAL out in India. A first batch of engines will be produced at Turbomeca, France, and progressively most part of the production will be transferred to India. As a consequence of this close cooperation between HAL and Turbomeca, Indian engineers are now learning all the Shakti production know-how at the site in Bordes, France, Turbomeca's headquarters. The first rotation is scheduled for September 2005, and the EASA certification is scheduled for December 2006. The second contract covers the supply of TM 333 2B2 engines, for application on the HAL Dhruv helicopter, and the third contract the repair and overhaul license for the TM 333 2B2. The hundredth TM 333 2B2, destined to the Dhruv of HAL was delivered in August 2004. The Dhruv helicopters will be used by the Indian Army Aviation, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guards, depending on the missions to be carried out. The Dhruv is also considered by civilian customers. Cheetal, Cheetah re-engined with TM 333 2M2 The Cheetal (former Cheetah, equivalent to the Lama, manufactured by HAL), has been re-engined with the TM 333 2M2. The first flight was completed the 1st February 2003 in Bangalore. The replacement of the Artouste engine with a Turbomeca TM 333 2M2 engine improved considerably the light helicopter's performance at altitude and increase its pay load capacity above 5,000 meters. In-flight qualification tests have been completed and were successful. Some Cheetah could be re-engined in 2005. Chetan, Chetak re-engined with TM 333 2M2 The Chetan (former Chetak, equivalent to the Alouette III, manufactured by HAL), has been re-engined with the TM 333 2M2. The first flight was completed the 1st February 2005 in Bangalore. The replacement of the Artouste III B engine with a Turbomeca TM 333 2M2 engine decreased considerably the light helicopter's fuel consumption, and improved its useful load. World records November 2004 was a special month in the history of Indian helicopter industry. On 2nd November, the Dhruv, powered by the TM 333 2B2, soared to 25000 ft (7 520m) above mean sea level. This is the record for highest altitude flown by a middle weight class helicopter. The Cheetal, equipped with TM 333 2M2, set the world record for a landing at highest altitude by a light weight helicopter, landing at a height of 23220 ft (7070m) above mean sea level. Both the records were rendered more impressive due to the fact that the density altitude, a major factor governing the altitude at which a helicopter can fly, was significantly higher, at 27000 ft (8 200m) for the Dhruv, and 25150 ft (7670m) for the Cheetal. The records were set in terms of density altitude, too. *** Turbomeca is the leading helicopter engine manufacturer, and has produced 50 000 turbines based on its own designs since the company was founded. With more than 2 000 customers in over 140 countries, Turbomeca provides a proximity service thanks to its 14 sites, 3 subsidiaries, 23 TurboSupport Centers, 32 repair centers and 90 Field representatives and Field mechanics. The Head Office is based in Bordes, Pyrénées-Atlantiques (south-west France). Turbomeca is part of the Snecma Group, specialists in aerospace propulsion and equipment. Microturbo, a subsidiary of Turbomeca, is the European leader in turbojet engines for missiles, drones and auxiliary power units.

 

[ramu]

Satish Kirtikar has been appointed Turbomeca India Engines
============================================

February 15, 2010
Turbomeca, has announced the appointment of a new Managing Director for its Indian operations.
Satish Kirtikar has taken up the position of Managing Director at Turbomeca India Engines Pvt. Ltd with immediate effect and comes to Turbomeca with considerable experience of both the Original Equipment and Aftermarket business, having worked in the aeronautical and automotive sector since 1978.
During this time he worked for Microturbo (Turbomeca subsidiary) in France and the USA and ACTIA in the USA. Most recently, he has worked for ACTIA in Delhi in the capacity of CEO and Chairman of the Board. Satish has a strong technical and commercial background and has occupied senior positions in engineering, operations and corporate management functions within these international companies.
Satish’s key focus on joining Turbomeca is to grow the business in India and to aggressively regain its favoured supplier position in both the military and civil helicopter engine market. He brings with him strong market knowledge, excellent customer relationships and first-class commercial acumen.
Satish said, "Turbomeca is a great company with a great track record. We have a comprehensive, revitalised and competitive product line-up coupled with a strong, capable team that will deliver world class levels of support and service. What with all of this and the backing of our shareholder, we will strive hard for growth in India."

Satish Kirtikar has been appointed Turbomeca India Engines | Shephard Group

 

[Myth_buster_1]

HAL does not require a certificate from you of all the people. You have lost all credibility as your crystal ball is as useless as your opinion.

You and HAL never had any credibility of speaking truth to start with other then ego satisfaction pathological lair statements such as "dhruv is "indigenously" Indian devloped chopper".

 

[ramu]

Candy-frost coated dude. The more you talk the more you embarrass yourself and prove us how much state of denial you are in. So far you have only talked around your way dodging my thread with your senseless posts.

Check the date of your article and stop calling me dude.

I rest my case.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Satish Kirtikar has been appointed Turbomeca India Engines
============================================

February 15, 2010
Turbomeca, has announced the appointment of a new Managing Director for its Indian operations.
Satish Kirtikar has taken up the position of Managing Director at Turbomeca India Engines Pvt. Ltd with immediate effect and comes to Turbomeca with considerable experience of both the Original Equipment and Aftermarket business, having worked in the aeronautical and automotive sector since 1978.
During this time he worked for Microturbo (Turbomeca subsidiary) in France and the USA and ACTIA in the USA. Most recently, he has worked for ACTIA in Delhi in the capacity of CEO and Chairman of the Board. Satish has a strong technical and commercial background and has occupied senior positions in engineering, operations and corporate management functions within these international companies.
Satish’s key focus on joining Turbomeca is to grow the business in India and to aggressively regain its favoured supplier position in both the military and civil helicopter engine market. He brings with him strong market knowledge, excellent customer relationships and first-class commercial acumen.
Satish said, "Turbomeca is a great company with a great track record. We have a comprehensive, revitalised and competitive product line-up coupled with a strong, capable team that will deliver world class levels of support and service. What with all of this and the backing of our shareholder, we will strive hard for growth in India."

Satish Kirtikar has been appointed Turbomeca India Engines | Shephard Group

And? Is this Indian input in Turbomeca engines? Appointing Indian managing director for "Indian operations"?
Seriously you have gone totally insane.

 

[ramu]

You and HAL never had any credibility of speaking truth to start with other then ego satisfaction pathological lair statements such as "dhruv is "indigenously" Indian devloped chopper".

Here comes the "pathological liar"come back statement. The last resort in the Growler armoury of fabricated evidence. You failed to acknowledge Janes calling Dhruv indigenously developed and still live in a make believe world where if you can't do it, India can't.

 

[ramu]

And? Is this Indian input in Turbomeca engines? Appointing Indian managing director for "Indian operations"?
Seriously you have gone totally insane.

No I have not. That was your conclusion and do not try putting words in my mouth. Your concern on Indian dependency is mitigated by the presence of investment of this company in Bangalore. Turbomeca has made a considerable investment to strengthen its ties with HAL. This is a good indicator of the clout HAL commands.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Check the date of your article and stop calling me dude.

I rest my case.

Dude but Dude? Oh I see, so initial development stage of Dhruv is irrelevant because contracts after contracts were signed with foreigner mulit national companies for Transfer of technologies and thus does not satisfies your ego.