How good are the SSG's

[XYON]

SSG Motto is;

HUM VOH PATAY NAHIN JO HAWAON SAY JHAR JATAY HAIN!

IN ANDHION SAY KAHO APNI AUQAT MAY RAHAIN!

(We are not the leaves that scatter on blowing of the wind; Tell the Hurricanes to remain in their limits)

Enough said!

 

[All-Green]

Only 93 were killed according Musharaf. I think there were not more than 10 terrorists and the so called hostages were brutally murdered and they were not 93 but three to four time of this amount.

Long live SSG:pakistan:

Is that sarcasm?

Are you implying that the entire strength of the terrorists inside the red mosque was 10?

Even in the video footages more than 10 heavily armed rebels were seen outside the perimeter and all experts know that the more trained ones inside were with the leaders and were well concealed in the makeshif bunkers and firing positions...It was infornt of such a reinforced firing position that most SSG casualties took place...

This was one of the most difficult operations and the only reason it is criticised is because the political elite were cowardly and chose to pin the blame rather than accept that there was no other choice.
Afterall you can have the best soldiers but without the will to act and to back your actions, it amounts to nothing.
If however there is will, then all becomes good in the long run.
Similar conclusion can be drawn from SWAT where despite all the doomsday scenarios which we were threatened with in case of operation; most people have now agreed that it was the best thing to do and especially the people of SWAT have openly come out and spoken against the Taliban whom were thought as the voice of the people...once the gun was not pointed at the head of the people, they had the chance to show their true feelings!

Also in Red Mosque operation, the media played the worst role as i vividly recall that Hamid Mir was literally taunting at the government like a woman as to how weak and pathetic its grip was on the capital...and how the government is not establishing its WRIT...
Well the point is that in case of facing armed rebels and terrorists the WRIT is not established via garlands of roses but guns and bullets instead...
When the action was taken the same media changed its colour completely and was aghast at the human tragedy...
This all stinks of hypocricy...

Anyways, my question to you is how you have come to this conclusion?

 

[greatsequence]

Is that sarcasm?

Are you implying that the entire strength of the terrorists inside the red mosque was 10?

Even in the video footages more than 10 heavily armed rebels were seen outside the perimeter and all experts know that the more trained ones inside were with the leaders and were well concealed in the makeshif bunkers and firing positions...It was infornt of such a reinforced firing position that most SSG casualties took place...

This was one of the most difficult operations and the only reason it is criticised is because the political elite were cowardly and chose to pin the blame rather than accept that there was no other choice.
Afterall you can have the best soldiers but without the will to act and to back your actions, it amounts to nothing.
If however there is will, then all becomes good in the long run.
Similar conclusion can be drawn from SWAT where despite all the doomsday scenarios which we were threatened with in case of operation; most people have now agreed that it was the best thing to do and especially the people of SWAT have openly come out and spoken against the Taliban whom were thought as the voice of the people...once the gun was not pointed at the head of the people, they had the chance to show their true feelings!

Also in Red Mosque operation, the media played the worst role as i vividly recall that Hamid Mir was literally taunting at the government like a woman as to how weak and pathetic its grip was on the capital...and how the government is not establishing its WRIT...
Well the point is that in case of facing armed rebels and terrorists the WRIT is not established via garlands of roses but guns and bullets instead...
When the action was taken the same media changed its colour completely and was aghast at the human tragedy...
This all stinks of hypocricy...

Anyways, my question to you is how you have come to this conclusion?

Can you please also show us the video with those heavily armed Terrorists. Media had no clue what is going on only PTV was allowed during the time of operation. Rest of the media went inside When our brave heroes had cleaned every thing and all the bodies were buried.

 

[SSGPA1]

Can you please also show us the video with those heavily armed Terrorists. Media had no clue what is going on only PTV was allowed during the time of operation. Rest of the media went inside When our brave heroes had cleaned every thing and all the bodies were buried.

Google Lal Masjid operation video and you will see it yourself.

Probably you were in Germany so you didn't get to watch PTV,GEO or ARY during those days. These guys were all over the TV screens.

The whole operation lasted close to a week and it was not possible without arms and trained militants inside the compound.

No one is happy with the outcome but this was the last resort.

 

[SSGPA1]

This was one of the most difficult operations and the only reason it is criticised is because the political elite were cowardly and chose to pin the blame rather than accept that there was no other choice.
Afterall you can have the best soldiers but without the will to act and to back your actions, it amounts to nothing.

Well said. Our politicians only like to say whatever people like to listen. There are no leaders and only politicans. Same happened in Kargil when NS gave in to the US pressure and now put all blame on the PA.

Also in Red Mosque operation, the media played the worst role as i vividly recall that Hamid Mir was literally taunting at the government like a woman as to how weak and pathetic its grip was on the capital...and how the government is not establishing its WRIT...
Well the point is that in case of facing armed rebels and terrorists the WRIT is not established via garlands of roses but guns and bullets instead...
When the action was taken the same media changed its colour completely and was aghast at the human tragedy...
This all stinks of hypocricy...

Same is true about Kashif Abbasi of ARY who for months questioned the ability of the GoP and then at the Lla Masjid site asked "is there no other option left?"

 

[greatsequence]

I was there and very close to lal masjid so I know what happened there. Lal masjid was a bigger blunder than Kargil. Army's interference in politics is a very big problem. Pakistanis are beginning to understand that Army should be under the control of Govt and not an autonomous entity.

 

[All-Green]

I was there and very close to lal masjid so I know what happened there. Lal masjid was a bigger blunder than Kargil. Army's interference in politics is a very big problem. Pakistanis are beginning to understand that Army should be under the control of Govt and not an autonomous entity.

I was within 1-2 km of some bomb blasts but did not see anything so its not like being in close proximity one can claim to know all.
If you sincerely think the Army is lying through its teeth then i cannot change your point of view unless you are willing to trust atleast some of the things the army and state apparatus claimed and that is that.
However, I talked to some people i trust who were indirectly involved and it was hell in there with RPGs being used as well.

You think it is that easy to even take on 10 terrorists in a reinforced position?
I know that the number was much higher but in terms of the decision to take action; does it matter whether there were 10, 100 or 1000 terrorists?
The state apparatus failed to negotiate and action was taken, Army obeyed the orders and the orders were to kill terrorists not to kill civilians.Also please note that it was an anti terrorist operation and even if there was a civilian government it would have called upone the SSG to the scene eventually.
The role of army here was not political by far, it was that of facing fire and death.

It is very convenient for politicians who say there could have been a better way or that they did not want it to happen; they say this only because the public reaction was not positive due to the negative media coverage
Had the same happened in SWAT (god forbid) i am sure again the blame would have been passed to the ARMY and our Political elite would have been seen crying for the human tragedy.
Politicians everywhere are of the same ilk, they are never in the forefront of the execution of the plans and if something goes awry or gets criticised, they easily pass the buck onto someone else and life goes on!

The terrorists were there and by the losses and the time taken to flush out the terrorists one can gauge that the fight was really deadly and number of terrorists was much more than just 10.
All people involved agree that there were a lot of terrorists and they had prepared many positions to use in combat which they did.

Now whether there was any other solution, it is easy to say in hindsight that we should have done something else, but the attitude of the militants and their audacity to back all sorts of good old fashioned Ghunda Gardi was there for all to see.

They were openly operating as the class monitor with a cane, by what right?
By what right did they have permission to implement anything outside their school?
Was it a legal role?
Was it a social role agreed upon by the people who begged for the burqa clad brigade and their male counterparts to impart holy justice upon the land?
Why is it that if one gives a religious flavour to their illegitimate actions, they get away so easily?

There is no doubt that what they were doing was wrong and the fact that even one of them had a weapon which he was displaying as a threat to anyone who dared stop them was something which should have resulted in an armed response by the government.
No country, law, code would tolerate such non sense by sitting quietly.

I think it was a tragic event but i also think the outcome was unavoidable in those circumstances and we cannot blame the government for taking action.

P.S. I am sorry to mods for derailing the thread into another direction.

 

[All-Green]

Can you please also show us the video with those heavily armed Terrorists. Media had no clue what is going on only PTV was allowed during the time of operation. Rest of the media went inside When our brave heroes had cleaned every thing and all the bodies were buried.

You can see the videos yourself and conclude as you deem logical.
No one was allowed during the operation as it is a most unwise and bizarre thing to do...though i would love to throw in Hamid Mir and his kind in all such operations if it were upto me...for obvious reasons.
However before the operation there are ample videos to see the thugs and their numbers, plus we all know that weapons are not that hard to store in such a big complex and since there were lots of angry young men with the hypocrite Abdul Aziz, there could have been many more people armed on a very short notice.

However i do request that you do not talk about the martyred soldiers in such a negative manner, had you (god forbid) lost a loved one from the Army in the conflict you would have known what it means to lose someone in the line of duty who was trying to serve his country with his life and how painful it is to see that despite this great personal sacrifice he is still called a demon by many whereas the terrorists who were definitely doing something illegal, unlawful and wrong are instead mourned as heroes.

The person who started all this "Abdul Aziz Ghazi" was caught escaping in a Burqah after deliberately putting the lives of 100s in danger by perpetrating a rebellion!
Should we really disrespect our heroes for the likes of such scum who play with fire and want someone else to burn in their stead?

THe people we lost were best of the best in their field and not just in competence but in character as well.
Lt Col Haroon Islam who led the operation and was martyred was one of the finest and most upright officers in entire Pakistan Army from all aspects so i suggest you try to understand that these men deserve some respect and were not bloodthirsty monsters but sincerely tried to serve their country with their lives at stake and did so by paying the ultimate price.

 

[TaimiKhan]

One of my cousin went into the lal masjid during the days when they had captured police officials just before the standoff started. He went there with a friend who belonged to wazir tribe & was an influential member of his tribe, to meet somebody from his SW area.
My cousin recollects to have seeing huge amount of weapons in the rooms & the people who were sitting in one big room all had latest automatic weapons beside their sides & they did not looked local.

God knows the real truth.

The people in the masjid did not had the right to do what they did & specially bringing in weapons in a place of worship, there are other ways to implement Islam & tabligh or dawa are the tools to bring existing muslims on the true path of Islam, not through violence. Islam has no method of implementing it by force on non believers or even on Muslims. If you make someone practice Islam by force, there would be no use as that person will not be practicing it by heart rather by force, which will give him no good deed to carry forward in the afterlife. Islam is about doing things from your heart.

But personally it was a tragic incident, one which destroyed the image of Pakistan & PA. It let to a loss of innocent people on both sides, we lost many of our soldiers who would have preferred to be martyred by fighting the real enemy but not fellow Muslims.

And other options should have been pursued till the last end, which i think were not done, this bloody carnage could have been avoided, but may be having extremists on one side may have made it difficult to be avoided.

SSG is one of the best formations in the world and are no less then any other SFs. Success & Failure are part of life.

 

[irfan wazir]

wel, i dont know, they seem to be alright, but looking back at the lal masjid operation, im not sure. honestly, i dont think that there would have been 8 casualties and 30 plus injured if the sas or gign, gsg9 etc would have carried out the mission. but not much is known. all i herd is 70-100 deaths, no names, no mention who was civilion or militant, etc. the goverment made nothing transparent and covered up so much, that its hard to tel what really happenned. iv seen pictures of walls, ceilings, everthing of the room covered in bullet holes, and no blood. i doubt either side was stupid enough to shoot up at the ceiling during combat. many quentions...

thay r one of the best special force n with my information our ssg has world rank 3 be proud on ssg

 

[Zarbe Momin]

No doubt SSG are very well trained but in future if Pakistan faces some threat from india in that case number of SSG are small it should be up to one division. On other hand we did not have marines in large numbers, atleast pakistan navy should build two brigrades of marines and similarly one brigrade of NSSG. It is very nice to see Pakistan is now training infantary divisions like commandos.

 

[SSGPA1]

No doubt SSG are very well trained but in future if Pakistan faces some threat from india in that case number of SSG are small it should be up to one division. On other hand we did not have marines in large numbers, atleast pakistan navy should build two brigrades of marines and similarly one brigrade of NSSG. It is very nice to see Pakistan is now training infantary divisions like commandos.

As far as I know, both of your desires are underway but it will take some time.

 

[Bilal Farooq**FF]

well my answer is that SSGcain do what all other Speciall forces can do wether it is british SAS,us Navy seals or delata force to be honest i am a commando and i noticed in joint exercises that our troops have far much greater physical caliber that them because most of us pakistanis are not.....AC ke pedavar

 

[pak-knight]

Spec-ops are humans too they might get hurt or killed as well. just cuz they are spec-ops doesn't mean they are " super power mutants". Besides Lal- Masjid was a stunt to show the west which musharraf played, to show that he's even to sacrifice his soldiers for western ideology. Those militants were trained by SSG and when they were hunted, 10 of them were chosen and dressed as SSG operators so the world could see it specially the WEST.

 

[pak-knight]

well my answer is that SSGcain do what all other Speciall forces can do wether it is british SAS,us Navy seals or delata force to be honest i am a commando and i noticed in joint exercises that our troops have far much greater physical caliber that them because most of us pakistanis are not.....AC ke pedavar

Sir it's good to know you are commando of SSG, assalam alaikum, please tell me, SSG, SSG-Navy or SSG- airforce are HAHO or HALO qualified? what martial arts do theylearn? muay thai, kickboxing , karate like majority of spec-ops or some other art? and please tell me more on facts can you say that we are beter than Seals, Delta force or SAS. i thought they are the best specially SAS. please sir i will be waiting. allah hafiz