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How does Shaheen compare to Scuds?

suspect, most probably they do. Because liquid fueled missil
I just asked to know our space program is working or not.. as we use russian or chinese vehicle for launching are satellites..Parts can be decommissioned though for recycle...
plus i hv no idea, whtehr liquid motor are better for submarines ...
 
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The Ghaznavi is based on blueprints of the M-11. But is a different breed internally, with just the shell being similar, Shaheen-1 is as such an extension of the same "Shell" but the projects are unrelated in that the development of both proceeded independently. Basically, there are two "schools" of thought there were active within the Pakistani R&D scene during the 90s before AQK fell out of favour after his dealings were found to go beyond what the generals had authorized and themselves dipped in.

Both schools of thought however look to taking whatever path achieves the goal. So when it came to a ballistic systems category.. the scientists and engineers within the nuclear program who had really done their research soon found themselves being asked to develop missile systems.. and in the words of the ultimate high horse(who did not engage in proliferation) it meant going down to the library and rent books on basic rocketry and starting over.

In the meantime the establishment looked to procure missile systems and blueprints to try and give them a headstart. When the Chinese systems did arrive they arrived as empty shells as it was suspected that a complete system would violate the MTCR which the Chinese did not want(you cant violate the MTCR if you only end up with a hollow shell) so a new avenue was looked into getting the capability ASAP for which the more business savvy and less scientist AQK was put to work.

The other team was handed the hollow shell and the associated blueprints and told to build it..which meant that they had to do the Motor from the ground up which was not that difficult.. but the guidance and control sections needed a lot more effort as the Chinese system was found to be insufficient. This meant rounds of Dubai(where as I love to repeat the Pakistani folks found themselves sitting across Indian ones in the same room of a dealer) and trips to Eastern Europe(thank god for the dissolution of the Soviet Union). Long story short, the Shaheen does resemble the Chinese systems a lot but is a very different beast inside.. so much so that calling it the M-11 would be injustice. Just as calling the Babur the Tomahawk would be injustice.

Won't it be something agar end mein pataa chaleiii that Oscar Bhopali was essentially the guy who was making Bhel Purri outside of where all these missiles were being developed instead of being someone who knew what was 'really' going on inside ! :tongue:
 
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trips to Eastern Europe(
great Souls.... during my uni study, one of my junior's father was involved in bringing info and materials from eastern soviet regime.... it took EU 7 years to track him down.. Now his entire family cannot go anywhere abroad except china,.. not for Hajj even...

was essentially the guy who was making Bhel Purri
just for your info.... not trolling....
Once I visited a 'place' for interview.. I was 100 meters away from the main gate of building and it was a busy place. (like open restaurant, chai hops etc). everything was normal. Then i just wanted to take a selfie (with gate/building behind as a commemorative pic) and before I could click anything I was surrounded by 4 shalwar qameez men... I was just aghast.. but somehow they knew that i was an interviewee and just followed me till i went on a bus.
 
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Abdalli has more in common with M-11 than Ghaznavi.
it meant going down to the library and rent books on basic rocketry and starting over.
That's not how you develop a missile program. A new department was opened and appropriate staff was hired with relevant doctorates.
When the Chinese systems did arrive they arrived as empty shells as it was suspected that a complete system would violate the MTCR which the Chinese did not want(you cant violate the MTCR if you only end up with a hollow shell)
That was a controversial time. Because USA did end up imposing sanctions on the poor Chinese company that provided those "hollow" missiles. It was suspected that M-11's casing was used to deliver M-18's parts lol. After that incident Chinese assistance has been limited to sending advisers.
 
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Abdalli has more in common with M-11 than Ghaznavi.

That's not how you develop a missile program. A new department was opened and appropriate staff was hired with relevant doctorates.

That was a controversial time. Because USA did end up imposing sanctions on the poor Chinese company that provided those "hollow" missiles. It was suspected that M-11's casing was used to deliver M-18's parts lol. After that incident Chinese assistance has been limited to sending advisers.
Sure it was.

Won't it be something agar end mein pataa chaleiii that Oscar Bhopali was essentially the guy who was making Bhel Purri outside of where all these missiles were being developed instead of being someone who knew what was 'really' going on inside ! :tongue:
You may not be close, it might be that I ran a very popular Tikka joint where all of these scientists frequented and developed a nice friendship with them. It might also be that I later told them benefits of using chaat masala as a catalyst for solid propellent. Ki jana mein Kaun
 
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his meant rounds of Dubai(where as I love to repeat the Pakistani folks found themselves sitting across Indian ones in the same room of a dealer) and trips to Eastern Europe(thank god for the dissolution of the Soviet Union).
Ukraine.
 
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This meant rounds of Dubai(where as I love to repeat the Pakistani folks found themselves sitting across Indian ones in the same room of a dealer) and trips to Eastern Europe(thank god for the dissolution of the Soviet Union). Long story short, the Shaheen does resemble the Chinese systems a lot but is a very different beast inside.. so much so that calling it the M-11 would be injustice. Just as calling the Babur the Tomahawk would be injustice.
I read this on another board once. The way they told it, the Indians had no idea that the people across them were Pakistani, because coincidentally the delegation was wholly Pathan, who spoke amongst each other in Pashto, while the Pakistanis knew that they were Indian, due to Hindi conversations.
 
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Ghauri has been retired from the Pakistani Strategic Forces Command. You can beat a dead horse as much you like, it's not going to reply!!
Nopety nope. It will remain in service for a while.

M18 - two stage iteration of M9, looks a bit like the Shaheen II, are there any links there?

The M-18 doesn't really exist. While I do believe that Pakistan was incapable of bringing up a design like Shaheen-II on its own, there is simply no evidence of a Chinese system having the capabilities (or even dimensions) close to Shaheen-II. M-18 has a speculated range of 1000km with a 500kg payload.
 
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The M-18 doesn't really exist. While I do believe that Pakistan was incapable of bringing up a design like Shaheen-II on its own, there is simply no evidence of a Chinese system having the capabilities (or even dimensions) close to Shaheen-II. M-18 has a speculated range of 1000km with a 500kg payload.

I was under the impression that M-18 is iteration of DF 25 or a DF 21.
 
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I was under the impression that M-18 is iteration of DF 25 or a DF 21.
Nobody really knows what the heck is M-18, there is no photo of it. My guess is that it was some experimental missile built but not produced. US intelligence picked it up and the specs were leaked all over FAS, GlobalSecurity, BAS etc. And since this was the closest Chinese counterpart (in specs) to Shaheen-II, western intelligence termed it as the source of Shaheen-II.

Both DF-21 & 25 are canistered, so M-18 might be an earlier development/prototype of DF-21. But it still doesn't corresponds to specs of Shaheen-II.
(Length comparison: DF-21 = 10.7m, Shaheen-II = 17.5m)
 
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