How do people view Islamic organizations in Pakistan from the outside

[VCheng]

I respectfully disagree with you. I don't consider any of the fanatics, be it TTP or XYZ deviant.

I simply don't consider themselves Muslims. A Muslim is not allowed to wage warfare where he kills innocent people indiscriminately.

Denial at its finest!

 

[RAMPAGE]

G Aunty !

Beta aap ko nahi kaha.

aap bhawen bhaarr mai jaain !!! j/k

 

[Indus Falcon]

Denial at its finest!

What am I denying?

 

[VCheng]

What am I denying?

That a majority of the domestic terrorism is being perpetrated by people that fulfill all the outward criteria of being devout Muslims, and that they are sympathized with and supported by a large majority of the general population, all within Pakistan.

 

[Indus Falcon]

That a majority of the domestic terrorism is being perpetrated by people that fulfill all the outward criteria of being devout Muslims, and that they are sympathized with and supported by a large majority of the general population, all within Pakistan.

You are a wolf in sheep's clothing, hell bent on maligning Islam and Pakistan. Not responding to any of your rants anymore!

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

No ma man.... have no problem with Islam, rather takfiri pseudo Islamists...........

Hafiz saeed and lashkar e taiba/JUD are salafis/wahabis/ahle-hadith

 

[VCheng]

You are a wolf in sheep's clothing, hell bent on maligning Islam and Pakistan. Not responding to any of your rants anymore!

Denial again. I am the one speaking the truth. It is the horrific actions of these Muslims that are maligning Islam, not me.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Denial again. I am the one speaking the truth. It is the horrific actions of these Muslims that are maligning Islam, not me.

You are in Denial!!

 

[Chak Bamu]

I was a sufi Sir I came to Islam after visiting a shrine but I do my research and when I did research and when I used to ask sufis to justify their practices in light of Quran and Sunnah they used to go round and round and never come to point and answer me but when ever I asked a so called Salafi he immediately used to come up with ayat from Quran or Hadees or way of Sahaba and when I used to also check it it used to get confirmed and I know Turk history sir and now they are returning back to Islam it is a little slow process but the movement has started

The Salafist view is easy. Sufi view is difficult. But having been around a while, I can clearly tell you that Salafist approach to religion, while being direct, is actually shallow. The spiritual depth and understanding of deeper aspects of religion is a rarity among Salafis. In my experience most of Salafis have very little development in Tazkia-e-Nafs. Their manners are good in agreement, not in disagreement. I do not wish to castigate Salafists because there are some good things about them too especially sincerity and earnestness, like yours.

Some people with shallow or nonexistent understanding claim to be Sufi. Usually they are Barelvi types who know little and just go along the flow without questioning the aspects of innovation (bid'aat) and lack of emphasis on Tawheed. It is easy to criticize them for this. And indeed a Salafi person can easily pull the rug from under their feet. However, someone who has an understanding of sources (Quran and Sunnah) and exposure to different schools of thought would be a different game altogether. I am not going to say more than this. But do know that your certitude is a bit misplaced. There are certain questions which you or any Salfist with knowledge can not answer. Salafism paints an incomplete picture and the shortcomings of approach are clearly visible in adherents of this school of thought.

My development is actually quite reverse of yours. I used to think of Sufism / Tassawwuf as something close to shirk. I know that is not so.

Have your tried to read Kashf-al-Mahjoob? It is difficult reading, but perhaps one of the best sources on Sufism.

@Chak Bamu

Sir you maybe a secularist but you're certainly a gentleman and I respect you for that.

Nope, I am definitely NOT a secularist. I believe in tolerance, in respecting difference of opinion and in not inciting people of other religions. I have nothing to do with the theoretical aspects and ramifications of secularism. My context is Islamic from A to Z. I can explain my position from Quran and Sunnah. Those are my references.

 

[VCheng]

You are in Denial!!

And just what is it that I am denying in your view?

 

[Bratva]

My sister attended a one year religious course in Al-Huda after completing her masters 7 years ago. What they taught is how to be a Good muslim, How to be an example for others before you start correcting the society ills, Islamic history, Tajweed. Hadith collections, . They are not sectarian. She is now married with one kid and her husband is a IT manager in a public sector and both are as moderate and practitioner as everyday muslim is.

If someone can quote a specific which proves Al Huda education has negative effects in long terms than I can reconsider my position. Shooting of tangents, generalizing the whole incident because of extremist problem in Pakistan is not a proper way of winning an argument

 

[VCheng]

My sister attended a one year religious course in Al-Huda after completing her masters 7 years ago. What they taught is how to be a Good muslim, How to be an example for others before you start correcting the society ills, Islamic history, Tajweed. Hadith collections, . They are not sectarian. She is now married with one kid and her husband is a IT manager in a public sector and both are as moderate and practitioner as everyday muslim is.

If someone can quote a specific which proves Al Huda education has negative effects in long terms than I can reconsider my position. Shooting of tangents, generalizing the whole incident because of extremist problem in Pakistan is not a proper way of winning an argument

There is nothing wrong with anyone choosing to live their life according to their beliefs as they see fit, as described here by you. If a majority of society makes this choice, then it is fine too. I have said before that it is their prerogative to do so. The issues comes when such a foundation leads to increasing intolerance because people, conditioned by such organizations, in general simply do not see the extremists as doing anything wrong. That is how we come to showering rose petals on murderers.

My point is that such a radical transformation of Pakistani society in general is already underway and the end result not too far.

 

[Chak Bamu]

My sister attended a one year religious course in Al-Huda after completing her masters 7 years ago. What they taught is how to be a Good muslim, How to be an example for others before you start correcting the society ills, Islamic history, Tajweed. Hadith collections, . They are not sectarian. She is now married with one kid and her husband is a IT manager in a public sector and both are as moderate and practitioner as everyday muslim is.

If someone can quote a specific which proves Al Huda education has negative effects in long terms than I can reconsider my position. Shooting of tangents, generalizing the whole incident because of extremist problem in Pakistan is not a proper way of winning an argument

This is probably closer to truth than the alarmist views being propagated by ONE slick & cynic poster.

Islam is a deen of fitrat (nature) and moderation. A good understanding of deen brings about a positive change. How unfortunate that interested parties are busy obfuscating reality and conflating Al-Huda with TTP types.

 

[Bratva]

There is nothing wrong with anyone choosing to live their life according to their beliefs as they see fit, as described here by you. If a majority of society makes this choice, then it is fine too. I have said before that it is their prerogative to do so. The issues comes when such a foundation leads to increasing intolerance because people, conditioned by such organizations, in general simply do not see the extremists as doing anything wrong. That is how we come to showering rose petals on murderers.

My point is that such a radical transformation of Pakistani society in general is already underway and the end result not too far.

Bold part. Vague generalizations doesn't work . It's been 10 or so years since Al Huda began their operation. Can you describe an instance where Al Huda teachings has caused an intolerance as it's been a decade which is enough to gauge the performance of something.

What are teachings of Al Huda that you equate it with being radical? Have ou been there, attended their courses, observed their instructors?

If your comments has to be taken at face value than teaching islam to young kids are also radicalising the society

 

[Chak Bamu]

My point is that such a radical transformation of Pakistani society in general is already underway and the end result not too far.

You are wrong here. In difficult times people turn to religion. This then becomes and chicken-and-egg debate. You are reducing a tonne of complexities to something which you have yet to enunciate.

I fail to understand how you can point to organizations like Al-Huda and cry about radicalization while plenty of other organizations religious and irreligious are busy doing similar stuff with different focus or outcome? For one Al-Huda, there are a dozen not-so-Huda organizations working in our society. Why make a fuss at all?

The problem is with a reactionary mind-set which is a victim of obfuscation from various sources (including likes of you). Pakistanis are cynics in general and display a great deal of negativity and suspicion - the logical outcome of a reactionary mind-set. You are displaying a great deal of cynicism, suspicion, and negativity like any contemporary Pakistani. This is abnormal behavior on national scale.

The day things improve a bit, we can begin to slowly come out of this mind-set.