What's new

How do people view Islamic organizations in Pakistan from the outside

What you have described is quite a common thing. Though I can not claim to know much about Al-Huda, I can understand your view of them. The following are my observations:

1. Any and every religious movement is going to base itself of some original material. For Muslims, it is Quran and Sunnah. Any perspective, any doctrine, any dogma is going to be based on them. This much is clear.

2. For any organization to work a certain way, they are going to have a certain perspective to go along with their methodology. In that Al-Huda is not an exception. As far as I know (and I'm open to correction), they are not a totally local phenomenon, but in their institution actually a 'foreign' import. Al-Huda as they began were well-education overseas Pakistanis with a refreshing perspective. Having spent half my adult life outside Pakistan, I can well understand how they might approach religion. It is totally understandable if they have a minimalist approach to social structures etc...

3. It is totally up to the people involved to accept them or not to accept them. They are a religious revival sort of group and they would only work if given a chance. So basically association with Al-Huda is a free choice. Other ladies want to be like them and that is why they are open to their influence. Now if someone finds meaning or redefines their lives according to Quran and Sunnah then it is their choice. I or you or anybody else (esp. likes of VCheng) have no say in this.

My dearest friend went through a change like that. While earlier I could just walk right into his home like a family member, I found that it was not possible any more. Though I felt constrained at first, I respected his choice and that of his family wholeheartedly. I am glad I did that. Our friendship has grown stronger because of it.

4. If any problem is to be found, it would be with how these people view society and efforts to change it. If they have a wish or a way or methodology that has an element of unlawfulness, then that would be reprehensible. I do not know enough to make that call about them.

5. You seem to have difficulty adapting to this change within your family. That could be a reason for some resentment. But a personal matter like that should not be allowed to influence your judgement about Al-Huda or similar entities.

6. I hope you do appreciate that any organization that wants a certain outcome has to work a certain way and would therefore teach a certain perspective. If you feel that it leads to extremism, when they do not actually break any laws, then it is not really a valid concern. You can criticize them for being narrow (focus is always narrow, so are most reformist movements), or committed a certain way. But that is purely a personal issue.

While I do not agree with Al-Huda's strictly Tawheed-centered minimalist and Salafist approach, there might be little that I could criticize. If they base their conduct on Quran and Sunnah, then I can only support them, and not criticize them.

7. Lastly, I would like to emphasize that during difficult times, people often turn to religion to find solace and meaning. You can not fault people in Pakistan for doing that. The only problem would be a rise in intolerance. In a well-functioning society, laws take care of that aspect.

I hope I have not obfuscated anything or spread any confusion. If I have ignored or forgotten to address any aspect, please let me know.

I sincerely pray and hope that what I described isn't a common thing in this country because its hazardous . This is narrow mindedness and fear/rejection of the society at its best , mate . The original material is always there at the base , it has to be , that doesn't exactly make the whole package fit for human consumption , that does seem to be valid for a lot of packages out there . So far , I have spoken in general from what I have seen in my life , I have no personal experience with this group of course , but since the apple doesn't really fall far the tree , I believe I can make an idea from like-minded groups . Al Huda isn't entirely local from what I have read , though I wouldn't exactly know how do " foreign imports " approach religion , please explain me this part . Their minimalist approach to different things might be understandable , but it shouldn't be acceptable . By preaching the fear and rejection of society/culture/modernity/sciences/ways of the world , they are in no way serving these women , but rather radicalizing them and asking them to put themselves in quarantine mode for later so if an extremist group starts recruiting or just paving the way for support of the masses for their agenda later , it will an easy job to do , the mindset will be there for them , this isn't something to discount , mate . Radicalization is the first step to extremism , for the behavior arises from thought . I said in my first post here that people are actually inviting them into house with their own free will though the first time how they get you into the fraternity/sorority is definitely a sight and practice to watch , the organization-in-question might not have an evil agenda but they are ultimately serving it , in my personal opinion . You agree about their Salafist tendencies part , which means that its just another sectarian group and being so , not doing a great service to Islam as goes the popular view of them . Our people being naive and gullible , do seem to welcome everything presented to them under the guise of religion , the opiate itself I can tell you is life-threatening in the wrong hands . Now , I mean no offense , but you seem to be underestimating their potential to decay the social fabric of this country further . After all , how many even thought in Zia's time that the ideology , fighter he's importing all over the world , forced Islamization and indoctrination of the people of this country will quickly ruin the country and all that we stand for within 2 decades ?

P.S. I thought a source for my apparently far fetched claims would be good , hence the family part . I have no difficulty adapting to that change because firstly it happened a long time ago and second being a student of psychology , I can understand and thus accept things . I amn't looking to force my opinions/views on anyone .
 
I sincerely pray and hope that what I described isn't a common thing in this country because its hazardous . This is narrow mindedness and fear/rejection of the society at its best , mate . The original material is always there at the base , it has to be , that doesn't exactly make the whole package fit for human consumption , that does seem to be valid for a lot of packages out there . So far , I have spoken in general from what I have seen in my life , I have no personal experience with this group of course , but since the apple doesn't really fall far the tree , I believe I can make an idea from like-minded groups . Al Huda isn't entirely local from what I have read , though I wouldn't exactly know how do " foreign imports " approach religion , please explain me this part . Their minimalist approach to different things might be understandable , but it shouldn't be acceptable . By preaching the fear and rejection of society/culture/modernity/sciences/ways of the world , they are in no way serving these women , but rather radicalizing them and asking them to put themselves in quarantine mode for later so if an extremist group starts recruiting or just paving the way for support of the masses for their agenda later , it will an easy job to do , the mindset will be there for them , this isn't something to discount , mate . Radicalization is the first step to extremism , for the behavior arises from thought . I said in my first post here that people are actually inviting them into house with their own free will though the first time how they get you into the fraternity/sorority is definitely a sight and practice to watch , the organization-in-question might not have an evil agenda but they are ultimately serving it , in my personal opinion . Our people being naive and gullible , do seem to welcome everything presented to them under the guise of religion , the opiate itself I can tell you is life-threatening in the wrong hands . Now , I mean no offense , but you seem to be underestimating their potential to decay the social fabric of this country further . After all , how many even thought in Zia's time that the ideology , fighter he's importing all over the world , forced Islamization and indoctrination of the people of this country will quickly ruin the country and all that we stand for within 2 decades ?

P.S. I thought a source for my apparently far fetched claims would be good , hence the family part . I have no difficulty adapting to that change because firstly it happened a long time ago and second being a student of psychology , I can understand and thus accept things . I amn't looking to force my opinions/views on anyone .

What's more, the rabid responses here, as an example, and much more so in real life, to those who are trying to highlight the dangers posed by these catalysts of radicalization is another indicator of just how far this process is already seeped into the very fabric of Pakistani society these days.
 
As long as they are not involved in terrorism we don't have an opinion.
 
1st I need to rub the prove in your face then we can go back to the topic:



Ok back to the topic...You never answered my question :unsure:

I think @Secur 's post above makes some very good points, as does my response to his post above.
 
I will read it once I get home...dinner time so need to pack up and head home :D

Your response would be revealing, no doubt.

As long as they are not involved in terrorism we don't have an opinion.

These organizations are the heralds to radicalization. They work by preparing the ground for the more intolerant elements to flourish.
 
Last edited:
The lunatics operating inside Pakistan, who is training, funding, supporting them?

What do you think , mate? What exactly is the TTP franchise? Who are these people waging war against the state of Pakistan? The Indian/American/British/Israeli agents as the popular opinion goes? Or the Uzbeks , Tajiks , Arabs , Chechens e.t.c exclusively as is the convenient excuse being given now? Before you answer , I need you to understand a few things . A strange and sustainable ecosystem for extremism and subsequent terrorism does exist in this country supported by misplaced priorities in donations , zakat , funds from the Gulf countries and last but not least , the money generated through criminal activities by TTP , for that I have no doubt . I mean , we have had the infrastructure for Jihadi groups since a long time , in the form of Madarsas taking in poor or orphan children and raising them up , since the rural conservative population despite having no money to raise what they bring in this world , strongly believes in no latex . Is it then possible that the fighters trained and people indoctrinated during the Afghan war have gone haywire and are now fighting against infidel Pakistanis just like they were fighting against the infidel Soviets? I am not asking you to believe it , I am just asking to consider the possibility because the foreign third hand theory cant explain a lot of things , there's a good report written by @jaibi examining the money generation procedures of these extremist groups , I suggest you take a look at it .
 
What do you think , mate? What exactly is the TTP franchise? Who are these people waging war against the state of Pakistan? The Indian/American/British/Israeli agents as the popular opinion goes? Or the Uzbeks , Tajiks , Arabs , Chechens e.t.c exclusively as is the convenient excuse being given now? Before you answer , I need you to understand a few things . A strange and sustainable ecosystem for extremism and subsequent terrorism does exist in this country supported by misplaced priorities in donations , zakat , funds from the Gulf countries and last but not least , the money generated through criminal activities by TTP , for that I have no doubt . I mean , we have had the infrastructure for Jihadi groups since a long time , in the form of Madarsas taking in poor or orphan children and raising them up , since the rural conservative population despite having no money to raise what they bring in this world , strongly believes in no latex . Is it then possible that the fighters trained and people indoctrinated during the Afghan war have gone haywire and are now fighting against infidel Pakistanis just like they were fighting against the infidel Soviets? I am not asking you to believe it , I am just asking to consider the possibility because the foreign third hand theory cant explain a lot of things , there's a good report written by @jaibi examining the money generation procedures of these extremist groups , I suggest you take a look at it .

Most of the money that sustains these groups comes from within Pakistan, from Pakistanis. These are people that have been suitably conditioned by the herald organizations such as al-Huda.
 
What do you think , mate? What exactly is the TTP franchise? Who are these people waging war against the state of Pakistan? The Indian/American/British/Israeli agents as the popular opinion goes? Or the Uzbeks , Tajiks , Arabs , Chechens e.t.c as is the trend now? Before you answer , I need you to understand a few things . A strange and sustainable ecosystem for extremism and subsequent terrorism does exist in this country supported by misplaced priorities in donations , zakat , funds from the Gulf countries and last but not least , the money generated through criminal activities , for that I have no doubt . Is it then possible that the fighters trained and people indoctrinated during the Afghan war have gone haywire and are now fighting against infidel Pakistanis just like they were fighting against the infidel Soviets ? I am not asking you to believe it , I am just asking to consider the possibility because the foreign third hand theory cant explain a lot of things , there's a good report written by @jaibi examining the money generation procedures of these extremist groups , I suggest you take a look at it .

You are entitled to your opinion. To you it can't explain a lot of things, to me it can. For e.g. I distinctively remember 4 different media outlets reporting the same thing "2 to 3 of the Karachi airport attackers were wearing karas." Now you tell me which Muslim sect wears "karas"?
 

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom