"How Can You Defend Israel?"

[Kambojaric]

God almighty will defend Israel, and every other region of this earth from diabolical forces.

The Israeli people might not be very romantic, as is evident from this video, but there is no denying about deep love and affection they have for India.
I remember of many cases of lovers walking hand in hand down the streets with jealous onlookers laughing and jeering.

Dinga dinga dee

 

[sweet smile]

I think the most important thing is peace

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

God almighty will defend Israel, and every other region of this earth from diabolical forces.

The Israeli people might not be very romantic, as is evident from this video, but there is no denying about deep love and affection they have for India.
I remember of many cases of lovers walking hand in hand down the streets with jealous onlookers laughing and jeering.

Israelis think of Indians,as same as Arabs(uncivilized.)

Except they like the fact that we are peaceful.

However it doesn't matter as long as we get our weapons ,joint-ventures etc.

 

[Kambojaric]

Israel is an Apartheid state, that is common knowledge, men like Archbishop Desmund Tutu who himself lived and opposed apartheid in South Africa, grandson of Gandhi + other people like Nobel Peace Laurette Mairead Corrigan have all acknowledged this. Heres an intresting article by Mr. Tutu in the Guardian.




In our struggle against apartheid, the great supporters were Jewish people. They almost instinctively had to be on the side of the disenfranchised, of the voiceless ones, fighting injustice, oppression and evil. I have continued to feel strongly with the Jews. I am patron of a Holocaust centre in South Africa. I believe Israel has a right to secure borders.

What is not so understandable, not justified, is what it did to another people to guarantee its existence. I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.

On one of my visits to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?

I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes, now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre) in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: "Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home; it is now occupied by Israeli Jews."

My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten that God cares deeply about the downtrodden?

Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds taught hatred; but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured.

The military action of recent days, I predict with certainty, will not provide the security and peace Israelis want; it will only intensify the hatred.

Israel has three options: revert to the previous stalemated situation; exterminate all Palestinians; or - I hope - to strive for peace based on justice, based on withdrawal from all the occupied territories, and the establishment of a viable Palestinian state on those territories side by side with Israel, both with secure borders.

We in South Africa had a relatively peaceful transition. If our madness could end as it did, it must be possible to do the same everywhere else in the world. If peace could come to South Africa, surely it can come to the Holy Land?

My brother Naim Ateek has said what we used to say: "I am not pro- this people or that. I am pro-justice, pro-freedom. I am anti- injustice, anti-oppression."

But you know as well as I do that, somehow, the Israeli government is placed on a pedestal [in the US], and to criticise it is to be immediately dubbed anti-semitic, as if the Palestinians were not semitic. I am not even anti-white, despite the madness of that group. And how did it come about that Israel was collaborating with the apartheid government on security measures?

People are scared in this country [the US], to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? For goodness sake, this is God's world! We live in a moral universe. The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust.

Injustice and oppression will never prevail. Those who are powerful have to remember the litmus test that God gives to the powerful: what is your treatment of the poor, the hungry, the voiceless? And on the basis of that, God passes judgment.

We should put out a clarion call to the government of the people of Israel, to the Palestinian people and say: peace is possible, peace based on justice is possible. We will do all we can to assist you to achieve this peace, because it is God's dream, and you will be able to live amicably together as sisters and brothers.

Desmond Tutu is the former Archbishop of Cape Town and chairman of South Africa's truth and reconciliation commission. This address was given at a conference on Ending the Occupation held in Boston, Massachusetts, earlier this month. A longer version appears in the current edition of Church Times.

Apartheid in the Holy Land | World news | The Guardian

 

[black_magic pk]

lets sing again

i need to feel safe and sheltered
security and protection
together and forever
we will never be apart
dinga dinga dee

 

[Bhim]

Aw come on guys, I know the video is a little stupid, and it has had its share of kicking around.
One thing is for sure, they could have found better gals.

 

[al'ain]

. It has its flaws and foibles.

waaw , they are killing innocent children, women , depriving them from basic nessecities like food , medicines , blocking their trade so they can stand economically in the world, haah yes israel is the best country haah you are a big joke

 

[al'ain]

Its all adamant behavior of arab and West... the money Arab spent on Palestine, tn that money they could have given 1 lakh dollar to each Palestinian... Arab control >20% of worls land, can't they give some land to jew and some to palestine, so that both can enjoy there life???

Pakistan was created from Indian land on basis of Religion, almost 20% of Indian land was given to non existing Pakistan(there is no history of Pakistan before 1947) then whats the problem to give a small piece of land to Jews???

I just want this war to be over, as Indian ppl made Pakistan to avoid further problem, the Arab do the same with Israel... Co-exist happily...

why dont india give a little land to innocent kashmiris? so they can make their own country and run their own rules

 

[blain2]

Israelis need to live and let live. They are not the only ones who care about individual freedoms. Every single Arab wants the same were it not for corrupt monarchies that have never given the Arab populace a shot at enfranchisement.

I must also point out that while the author has the right to call out the good that Israel offers, one must also not forget that the Ottomans took pretty good care of Palestine in their times (and even before) and ensured that people of all religions got an even break. Their model and that of their predecessors has yet to be repeated.

 

[American Eagle]

Speaking just for myself as an individual Christian the existance of the nation of Israel is important to me as a Biblical fact. We Christians look forward in the unknown future, I may well have been dead for thousands of years before this happens, when Christ returns for the second and final time to the earth from Heaven. Israel and the City of Jerusalem are where we believe and are taught Jesus will descend in a cloud.

Jews and Arabs are blood kin, both groupings are of Semitic origin.

In our Holy bible, the Book of Genesis, Chapter 16, we read of the birth of Ishmael as the first born son of Arbaham, by his Egyptian wife (given to Abraham by Sarah, Abraham's Jewish wife).

We see the same old story of jealousy between women, in this case two wives of Abraham, Hagar who was given to Abraham by Sarai, her Mistress, as Abraham at this point in time was childless and Sarai was thought to be barren:

Chapter 16, verses 5-16: "And Sarai said unto Abram, my wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the Lord judget between me and thee. But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her face. And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the way of Shur. And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will miltiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me? Wherefore the well was called Beerlahairoi; behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered. And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael. And Abram was four score and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Genesis, Chapter 17, further explains how what we know today as "the Jews" became God's chosen people. In verses 1-8: And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name anymore be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Then in Genesis, further on in Chapter 17, came the promise of Isaac, in whom the line of Christ runs in our religion: Verses 15-27: And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred yars old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall be beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

A major disagreement between Judiasm/Christianity and Islam in discussed in Genesis, Chapter 22, when Abraham offers Isaac as a potential burnt offering to God. Verses 1-14: And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah: and offer him there for a burn-offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. And Abraham rose up early in the mornning, and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt-offering, and rose up and went unto the place of which God had told him. Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the donkeys; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. And Abraham took the wood of the burnt-offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife,; and they went both of them together. And Isaac spoke unto Abraham his father, and said, My father,: and he siad, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? And Abraham said, My son, God will rovide himself a lamb for a burnt-offering: so they went both of them together. And they came to the place which God told him of; and Abraham build an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, an dlaid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretch forth his hand, and took the knive to slay his son. And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou has not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt-offering in the stead of his son. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day. In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

This Biblical history is the original basis in both Old and New Testament, our Holy Bible of the description of Jesus as the Lamb of God, who came to taketh away the sins of the world, that whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn it, but that through Him they might be saved. Jesus in my Christian belief was sacrified on the cross, crucified dead and buried, then arose from the dead, testsified of His Fahter in Heaven to his disciples, then ascended into Heaven on a cloud. Jesus = the sacrificial lamb of God to atone for all our sins.

This very lengthy posting is not meant to be rude or disrespectful to others beliefs and interpretations. Rather it is to explain how I as an individual Christian see and reason as a stand alone person when it comes to the topic of Israel as a nation and the importance of the survival of Israel, what it means to me, personally.

Thank you to those who took the time to read through this long posting.

 

[TechLahore]

Mr. Eagle, Sir, we understand why many devout Christians support Israel; not because of the actions/or lack thereof of the Israeli government, but due to purely religious reasons. However, before one gets too deep into doctrine, it is also useful to realize that the Good Lord's law is fairly simple to understand, even if it may be hard to comply with. Stealing land, killing, maiming and imprisoning a populace is not good. Denying aid to women and children, brutalizing generations of young ones, using banned weapons against civilians... definitely not good.

The pursuit of something you believe to be good, through means which are evil, is not the path of God. That is the path of the Taliban, frankly. At least the more doctrinally inclined amongst them believe that they are doing God's will on earth, and if in implementing that will, people get hurt or killed, that cannot be helped. Religiously inclined Pro-Israel supporters in the US who have been arming and funding Israel for decades are doing the same thing, though from a distance. They are not personally shooting at anyone, but they are funding the gunships that rain lead on civilian areas. They are not acting themselves as captors, but they are paying for the barbed wire, the checkposts & the walls that lock the Palestinian people in as prisoners. And if the justification of all of this is that the survival of Israel is critical to Kingdom Come, as foretold in the Bible, then all I can say is that God doesn't need our help. Neither the Taliban's help in establishing shariat, nor the help of the christian supporters of Israel in 'smoothing things out' in preparation for the end times. I think both you and I know that God is quite capable of doing whatever He wills, when and how He wills it. Trying to justify assistance to a murderous regime in Israel as being somehow compliant with God's Will is unfortunate and - in my own belief - very wrong.

I hope I didn't offend you, because from your posts I know you are a warm, good person whose heart is in the right place. Jesus Christ once protected an alleged adulteress (Mary Magdeline by some accounts, though I don't think it was her) from being stoned by a Christian mob. Symbolically, he stood between the mob (i.e. representing an ignorant interpretation of God's will) and the woman (i.e. the victim of said ignorant interpretation), using his body (Pure Good) as a shield. He said, "Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone". He said this because he knew that justice sans good intention is no justice at all. The attainment of good, by treading the path of evil and compromise, is not possible at all. That is the story of Jesus, the story of the Prophet Muhammad, the story of Imam Husain at Karbala. God has sent this message down to man, over and over again. We cannot have evil in our own hearts and cast stones pretending to be doing God's Will, and pretending that the damage we are responsible for is collateral damage in the pursuit of the Holy Word.

It is hard for me to see Jesus, may God forgive me if I err, on the side of the Israeli Merkava tanks as they patrol poor palestinian neighbourhoods. I see him freeing the Palestinians from the slavery they are subject to, just as Moses once freed his enslaved people from Pharoah.

 

[American Eagle]

Thank you for your very polite unerstanding of my faith system as a Christian. Your example of Jesus protecting the prostitute or adultress is 100% accurate. Jesus of course went on after saving her mortal life to tell her to sin no more.

In another episode in our Holy Bible Jesus was asked about a woman who had had many husbands, one presumes was divorced many times. The question asked of Jesus was when the woman died and presumably went to Heaven which husband would she identify with or be with.

The answer was she would not be the wife any longer of any of her prior husbands. Jesus teaches us Christians that in Heaven there is no husband nor wife but all are God's children. I would presume to suggest that of course we know each other in Heaven but since marriage and mortal carnal ideas in our Christian faith are not a part of Heaven then marriage and man and wife identities as such are unnecessary.

There have been bad things committed by all sides in the Middle East, no one can rationally deny that.

However, the right of Israel as a nation to exist is my purpose of the long Biblica text sharing.

Land changes hands, that is unhappily life. Pakistan was West and East Pakistan when I lived there, now it is just Pakistan, and Bangladesh is a separate nation.

India once included all of what is today Pakistan and Bangladesh, but that is over with now, too.

Land changing hands is nothing new.

The religious importance of Israel and Palestine, which deserves to exist as a co-equal state side by side with Israel, is to me best laid out by UN Resolution 181 in 1947.

We all should know the ins and outs of fighting and wars of basically short duration since 1947.

I do not agree with, never have agreed with, Israel expansionist settlements, which have greatly aggrivated the situation.

However, it was flatly a bad idea in 1967 for Jordan/Egypt/Lebanon to have attacked Israel, who sounded defeated them all and gained land not provided for under UN Resolution 181. And the misery goes on, largely in the name of religion.

My wife says I am spending entirely too much time today on this good website...so I am signing off for the time being to watch the live on TV here in the US Army vs. Southern Methodist University football bowl game now. While I am retired from the USAF Reserve, I did two years in Army ROTC in University so I supposed will have to cheer for Army...even though I am a member of the Methodist denomination!!!

Cheers.

 

[TechLahore]

Whatever is done, is done. The Arabs have a peace deal on the table which recognizes Israel's right to exist peacefully alongside a Palestinian state. Most third parties and independent observers deem this to be a reasonable and fair deal. The ball is 100% in Israel's court. Unfortunately, instead of making headway on this peace deal, they have been busy bulldozing, building settlements and expanding illegitimately.

In such a situation, those who are supporting Israel (and upon whom Israel is entirely dependent for survival) are morally bound to do the needful to make Israel comply. Otherwise, this will become a shared mistake, rather than Israel's mistake.

 

[Burger Boy]

The religious importance of Israel and Palestine, which deserves to exist as a co-equal state side by side with Israel, is to me best laid out by UN Resolution 181 in 1947.

Not sure if it matters today, but the reason why the Arabs rejected 181 was because it was unfair to them. In the time period before 1947, the population in Palestine was at best 30% Jewish, most of whom were recent immigrant from Europe. At this time Palestine west of the Jordan was divided into 16 districts. Out of those districts, only one had a Jewish majority, Jaffa. Haifa was a district that had a population that was roughly half-Jewish and half-Arab. Other than that, every other district, including Jerusalem, has an Arab majority.

In 1946, the Jews owned at best, 7% of the land. The Arabs owned more land than the Jews in every district.

The partition plan of 1947 gave the Jews 56% of the land even though they were 30% of the population and owned 7% of the land, at best.

This is why the Arabs rejected it. It was not a fair deal as most of the Zionists claim it was.

 

[Tigershark]

Israelis and Americans are both native-killers and land-stealers. They rape, butcher, and drive out the people of the land and proclaim their righteousness because they do it for "freedom, liberty, and democracy". Murderous hypocrites.