How Bias in Text books fuels division in Pakistani society

[Sheikh Rauf]

The type of language you use in your post shows your grasp of the issue at hand. A madrasah would be better suited for your little sermon. So kindly take it there.



You can cite random (mostly false) examples all you wish. The systematic annihilation of minorities from Hindus to Christians and Ahmediyas in Pakistan is for the whole world to see.

if you understand this word "LOL" i am fine with or you wanna take its Urdu meaning i am also fine.. what ever easy for you.

and here is the admitting! So basically you arent interested in a discussion but in shooting the msgr who wont agree with you!


They have a problem with the very existence of Pakistan so sure they will find problems where they dont exist just for our entertainment purposes ...get some and enjoy the show

yeah definatily it makes us strong and happy since someone out there cant do anything about it and we hear its pain in their news channels.. its all entertainment

 

[Jacob Martin]

if you understand this work "LOL" i am fine with or you wanna take its Urdu meaning i am also fine.. what ever easy for you.



yeah definatily it makes us strong and happy since someone out there cant do anything about it and we hear its pain in their news channels.. its all entertainment

Yes, we do hear the pain of Pakistan on news channels - the pain of bomb blasts, sectarian strife, of judges killed by vigilantes for upholding the law and being glorified by the public. If something good ever happened there, we would hear about it too. But nothing good can come out of a nation which teaches its children to hate the "other" in school. Instead of blindly defending your sordid education system, maybe it is time to overhaul it.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Yes, we do hear the pain of Pakistan on news channels - the pain of bomb blasts, sectarian strife, of judges killed by vigilantes for upholding the law and being glorified by the public. If something good ever happened there, we would hear about it too. But nothing good can come out of a nation which teaches its children to hate the "other" in school. Therefore, the need to revise your school curricula.

then who ask you to come on Pakistani forum and pass comments here if there is nothing good about it.. you utilize your time on important thnig .. but guess what
you prove yourself a LOSER....
Pakistan always getting better and on right track.. there is only INDIA who have Problem with... Pak never fought with anyone
but india ... you wanna count how many enemies or countries dont like india including Nepal..
concentrate on your life rather than come here and waist our time.

 

[Asif Durrani]

I think that I know more about the mindset of an average Pakistani student than you(who seem ignorant of that basic fact). If you think of other average Pakistanis as bright students who remember everything taught to them in Islamiat, Urdu or Pakistan studies a few years ago then go and ask them some questions from their textbooks yourself----It is most of the time learn by rote system followed by children here in Pakistan. They forget most of the things after the passage of a few years and then their other worries start(Earning bread for the family), then they forget the so called hate material. You sire on the other hand think that they have been indoctrinated enough that their only worry is to blow up their enemy LOL.
As for the textbooks, everything written there is 100% for the good of the country. We need Pakistani nationalism and Islamic ideology indoctrinated into our youth. The Indian youth are far more hostile towards Pakistan than our youth are towards their country---we must counter Indian aggression everywhere, here on pdf as well. (You can join hands with Indians if you want to, no one will stop you).

Welcome to pdf. Kindly observe Indian trolling and hate here and do observe the myths about Pakistan which they believe are true.

Newbie! I have added a lot of positive info to pdf as a whole with original work while you can only at best join up with some Bharti and bash your own country.

First things first - if you intend to be sarcastic, improve the quality of your English. Your language is pedestrian at best, atrocious at worst.

Claiming that you are better conversant on matters relating to education by dint of some inherent quality must be proven. What is this inherent quality? In your first interjection on this thread, you claimed that a) no one remembers what they learn in school, b) in any case the school syllabus does not treat hatred, and c) O and A level students are as bad/worse than any other students (Madrasah students, I guess?) as they have an obnoxiously elitist attitude. Let us leave aside the fact that in any normal order of reasoning, the second point you made would come before the first one, not after. Let us also leave aside the fact that the third point has absolutely zero relevance to the topic.

Your claim that students remember nothing from their Islamiyat curriculum is bogus - students are conditioned by information they receive at an early age. They may not be able to remember the specifics or even the source, but that does not preclude them from remembering the gist - the kafir is hate-worthy, India is the enemy, and so on. This is enough damage already. Saying that one does not retain the specifics is like claiming during an autopsy that since the poison that killed a person was (mostly) washed away from the body and only trace amounts detected, it must not have been the cause of death.

Then you contradict yourself by breathlessly following that up with the dissonant riposte that preaching bigotry and hatred in schools is the need of the hour as it inculcates nationalism and Islamic ideology. Firstly, why then did you bother to refute the presumption that this syllabus poisons their mind? Secondly, did you ever stop to wonder as to why “Pakistani” Nationalism and “Islamic” Ideology have to necessarily entail teaching hate to our children? What is so uniquely malevolent about our society that it will collapse without support by vilification of the “other”?

You follow that up with the unproven claim that Indian youth are more heavily indoctrinated and ill-disposed towards Pakistanis. This whole thread is littered with evidence of the reverse. Your anti-intellectualism is of such nature, that you have the gall to make a statement with no basis, no proof, when the reverse has been proven by various respondents to this thread. Your profound lack of knowledge and perspective shows that the deeper problem with Pakistani education is anti-intellectualism; that must be purged as rigorously as the hate inherent in it.

As for the claim regarding trolling etc., that statement was made in response to a post claiming that Indians are the “cunning enemy”. But to know that, you would have had to a) possess an attention span greater than that of a termite, b) read the thread carefully. The first you don’t have, and the second you did not.

Finally, regarding your tag of “newbie” for me – this is PDF we are talking about. Had this been TED or any other remotely respectable forum, I would have gladly deferred to your greater exposure here. PDF is forced to suffer fools and trolls in a very high proportion, for various reasons, not least of which is the bad education system in Pakistan. And thus, change of curriculum is the need of the hour.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Then you contradict yourself by breathlessly following that up with the dissonant riposte that preaching bigotry and hatred in schools is the need of the hour as it inculcates nationalism and Islamic ideology.

I think you had provided the answer yourself earlier; cognitive dissonance!

then who ask you to come on Pakistani forum and pass comments here if there is nothing good about it.. you utilize your time on important thnig .. but guess what
you prove yourself a LOSER....
Pakistan always getting better and on right track.. there is only INDIA who have Problem with... Pak never fought with anyone
but india ... you wanna count how many enemies or countries dont like india including Nepal..
concentrate on your life rather than come here and waist our time.

Blah, blah blah! Back to the Madrasah!!!

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

I think you had provided the answer yourself earlier; cognitive dissonance!



Blah, blah blah! Back to the Madrasah!!!

go back your forum where you are welcome to spread hate so you guys learn from your hatered system

 

[dray]

I said no such issue yes, coz it is being resolved so it shouldnt be there...You picking articles from 2005 posts shows your desperation to troll!

And I have shown you havent even read what you post...You are relying on the titles....A quick scan will even show you an article of 2010 in your claimed posts from after 2011

I have already given some 20 articles and 4 videos of Pakistani TV debates from 2012 onward, some half a dozen of them are from 2015 only...just to show you that the issue is still there. But you seems to have problem in dealing with facts.

Anyway I have reported you and your posts to GHQ...let them give you the medal for trolling!

First you tagged one moderator, then 10 of them, and now GHQ...what next? A complaint to the United Nations?

I am on the topic, civil, and constantly providing facts from credible sources like top Pakistani mainstream newspapers and TV debates...quite unlike you.

and here is the admitting! So basically you arent interested in a discussion but in shooting the msgr who wont agree with you!

I am not much concerned about what Pakistan is teaching to its young generation, and I have already stated the reason, and that's why I never criticized the hate-mongering, religious bigotry and false history that are there in those text books. I am just pointing out to you that your claims that "no such thing is there", and later "it has been rectified" are false, and I am also providing you the proofs that you were asking for in previous pages..I am not responsible for your inability to deal with hard facts.

 

[Dubious]

I have already given some 20 articles and 4 videos of Pakistani TV debates from 2012 onward, some half a dozen of them are from 2015 only...just to show you that the issue is still there. But you seems to have problem in dealing with facts.

Quit trolling!

You lied and I showed it that which you claimed from 2012 was from 2010! You yourself didnt read it but posted it for trolling @Slav Defence please check this troll!

 

[Slav Defence]

I have already given some 20 articles and 4 videos of Pakistani TV debates from 2012 onward, some half a dozen of them are from 2015 only...just to show you that the issue is still there. But you seems to have problem in dealing with facts.



First you tagged one moderator, then 10 of them, and now GHQ...what next? A complaint to the United Nations?

I am on the topic, civil, and constantly providing facts from credible sources like top Pakistani mainstream newspapers and TV debates...quite unlike you.



I am not much concerned about what Pakistan is teaching to its young generation, and I have already stated the reason, and that's why I never criticized the hate-mongering, religious bigotry and false history that are there in those text books. I am just pointing out to you that your claims that "no such thing is there", and later "it has been rectified" are false, and I am also providing you the proofs that you were asking for in previous pages..I am not responsible for your inability to deal with hard facts.

Make sure that you are posting accurate info.Miss @Akheilos is a researcher by profession and will easily detect the validity of references and claims

regards

 

[dray]

Quit trolling!

You lied and I showed it that which you claimed from 2012 was from 2010! You yourself didnt read it but posted it for trolling @Slav Defence please check this troll!

Which one? All two dozen of them?

Wait till late evening..I will post a dozen whole articles with highlighted dates, starting from 2015, and tag you for your opinion on all parts of it...not only on one single word or a comma..I think that will be fair, right?

In the mean time you can let me know your opinion on each of the six videos of Pakistani TV debates and the content they were discussing...do ignore any video that shows a date before 2011.

 

[Dubious]

Make sure that you are posting accurate info.Miss @Akheilos is a researcher by profession and will easily detect the validity of references and claims

regards

I already did...All he is doing is googling and then adjusting the date to required date....but unfortunately some of the things are re written or taken from a report before what he claims hence the articles are old (I have so far checked one out and pointed it out )

But this shows he doesnt even read what he posts and is posting soo many articles 1 was a 150+ page report which he didnt read another a 27 page report which again he didnt read.....

He is trolling...Unless you have a different meaning of the word troll....

-Article : AP — UPDATED OCT 01, 2014 08:27PM


I answered this on this very thread...kindly do stop going in circles:
Here is the source and you will see it repeating everywhere but no report found....
- Wednesday, October 07, 2015



And where is the so called report:


- Monday 18 May 2009 12.05 BST
Who are the experts (are they the same ones from 2005?):



Nit picking small points seems to be a habit of some:
Had there been a topic on Christianity it would have formed another article...

the same people who claim no religion should be part of curriculum are actually objecting to no mention of Christianity?


Throwing in assumptions :



Not at all an article worth reading!
I have answered to this general Zia phobia numerous times on various threads!


I clicked on "here" and the report doesnt exist ...Not sure who is referring to what sources!


-
JANUARY 21, 2009

Very authentic indeed...I am sure they are as butthurt as you regarding Christianity not mentioned CSM stands for the Christian Science Monitor....
and do look at their reference:



is a Pakistani nuclear physicist, essayist and national security analyst. He taught at the Quaid-e-Azam Universityphysics department for 40 years before becoming a professor of Physics and Mathematics at Forman Christian College University in Lahore where he currently teaches.

With such credentials he publishes stuff like this: Dr. Hoodbhoy is the author of Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality,

Do you go to a butcher to ask you make a suit for your wedding?

- August 18, 2005
Are you that desperate you had to dig out 2005 article?

All without reference of where they got their knowledge or are spreading propaganda?
-
Published: April 14, 2011

So what you presented before 2011 isnt valid :





Did you even read ANY of the articles or just got excited due to the titles?


VERY DESPERATE IT SEEMS! Posting based on title without looking at the article!

@Slav Defence here is me debunking all that he spewed ......

CSM returns
FEBRUARY 28, 2013

What is this an indian drama serial:


Did you read all 136 pages of it?

The latest reference in that report is 2002....So should I ASSUME that it was printed then or that there were no references worth bashing post 2002?


PUBLISHEDJUL 27, 2010 12:00AM





- January 15, 2011
So we now know where the shit came from!


I honestly dont know what this is!

Whatever it is I see the Pakistani obsession dragged you to 2005!!

- 2009
I guess you never read this!

I have interviewed these people so I have an idea what the 27 pages would be saying ....Question arises did you read it?

Was this Pakistan obsession taught in your classroom?


point 1 out where your countryman made sense or even read the article himself! He only googled Pakistan education and posted everything he could find even if it is rebutting what he is claiming....actually you should bury yourself in shame for blindly supporting BS ...

and its continuation....

He claims to discuss but never read them so how can one discuss with one who hasnt even read the article he claims to want to discuss?

the day you can reply to the 13 I have answered will be the day you have ANY rights to talk on the subject...Until then we all have seen your trolling of throwing articles and not discussing a single word!

Heck you are not even reading what you are posting as it has all the answers for you...Here is 1 example:


So changes have already been made so why is your stomach hurting?:


Same guy who was quoted in 1 of the articles took a U-turn:

Here is where I replied to one to see if he would bother reading now and discussing but I saw no discussion instead more trolling!

And I gave you replies something you havent managed to discuss or answer!

Stop wasting my time with your trolls! Please!
Another lie or troll?





- Received: October 5, 2010 Accepted: November 30, 2010

As usual you are trolling/ LYING since you didnt even read what you posted!

@WebMaster @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Horus @Jango @waz @T-Faz @TaimiKhan @Emmie @Slav Defence @Icarus kindly close the thread he is trolling and lying prosperously!


and he finally admitted!

I rest my case

And exposing his lie!

Sad thing he is permitted to troll, lie and still not be given a warning / told off or even banned for trolling and you guys claim you want to clean this forum?

Which one? All two dozen of them?

I replied to the first 13 so you cant take that into the 2 dozen!

 

[dray]

Make sure that you are posting accurate info.Miss @Akheilos is a researcher by profession and will easily detect the validity of references and claims

regards

Don't worry, I have highest regards for the Pakistani reserchers like Miss @Akheilos and I will be super extra specific about dealing with the references and sources..I hope she will not get a chance to complain anymore apart from the overwhelming volume of proofs that she was looking for. But I consider myself fortunate to get an opportunity to discuss the matter with an eminent researcher like her, and I am not letting this opportunity go unless I am forced to by the moderators, for no reason apparantly.

 

[Dubious]

Hate speech in high school textbooks on the rise - thenews.com.pk

This one doesnt tell me where the report they are referring to is! It is prob the same report as the next article you are claiming as a new article when it is

echoing the same thing!

The report takes data from 22 textbooks currently being used in Punjab and Sindh in grades 1-10 for the academic year 2012-13. The data reveals that there are 55 chapters containing hate speech against Hindus, India, and Christians, besides insulting remarks against minority religions and distortion of historical facts.

SWM 2014: Countering hate content in Pakistan's school textbooks · News · Minority Voices Newsroom

Very mainstream indeed: Minority Voices Newsroom: Upload / download / share: untold stories of the world´s minorities and indigenous peoples

Content Analysis of Textbooks of Social and Pakistan Studies for Religious Tolerance in Pakistan (PDF Download Available)

At the bottom of the propaganda it says:

View the full report.

knowing indians will not even read the article let alone the full report...If you click it ...it takes you back to the main page not the full report! So where is this mysterious report conducted in 2013?

Content Analysis of Textbooks of Social and Pakistan Studies for Religious Tolerance in Pakistan (PDF Download Available)

This article was published in Received: October 5, 2010 Accepted: November 30, 2010

So its not a 2012 article as you are lying!

@Slav Defence and the lying bigotry continues!

 

[dray]

I already did...All he is doing is googling and then adjusting the date to required date....but unfortunately some of the things are re written or taken from a report before what he claims hence the articles are old (I have so far checked one out and pointed it out )

But this shows he doesnt even read what he posts and is posting soo many articles 1 was a 150+ page report which he didnt read another a 27 page report which again he didnt read.....

He is trolling...Unless you have a different meaning of the word troll....


@Slav Defence here is me debunking all that he spewed ......


and its continuation....

He claims to discuss but never read them so how can one discuss with one who hasnt even read the article he claims to want to discuss?


Here is where I replied to one to see if he would bother reading now and discussing but I saw no discussion instead more trolling!


And exposing his lie!

Sad thing he is permitted to troll, lie and still not be given a warning / told off or even banned for trolling and you guys claim you want to clean this forum?


I replied to the first 13 so you cant take that into the 2 dozen!

Hold on till the late evening madam, I will be very very specific this time with one article at a time..starting with 2015 articles. You are a researcher, please have patience.

 

[Dubious]

she was looking for

It was presented to me by an indian trying to pass a 2010 article as 2011 article!