History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Rent]

Hello People,

I just wanted to pick someone's brain here.

Beside looking at historical literatures and documentations, has anyone looked at the cardinal directions of what was perceived as North and South during these ancient kingdoms of Qin, Nam Viet and Han?

2nd Century Han cartographers used South-up maps, where the directions we know of today as "South" was on top and right was West that pointed toward the Pacific Ocean. This may explain why the oriental compass needles points to cardinal South.

During Western Jin, around 267 AD, Jin's Minister/Cartographer flipped the cardinal directions.

Europe, during the Middle Ages used East orientation maps, where Asia is on top, left is Europe and right is Africa. There were no South because it was considered uninhabited.

If there was a Nam Viet Kingdom, was there a Bac Viet Kingdom? If there was a Bac Viet Kingdom or just Viet Kingdom, would it be located North or South of Nam Viet?

 

[Viet]

interesting, in fact, lots of Vietnamese heroes are Chinese, not Vietnamese. It's easy to find from their family names, so I guess you should learn some correct history first.

so if a vietnamese has a chinese surname, so the person is chinese?
are Vietnamese Chinese in reality or vice versa?
are all Americans in reality Germans, or of Irish ethnic or slaves from Africa? so there is no such a state as America?
Many Germans have surnames, which are derived from old ancient Kingdoms. who are they? Italian or Greek?

some studies suggest the first Chinese came from Africa. are you African?
congrat: you are NOT chinese. you are a fake chinese.

or are Vietnamese in reality Taiwanese as the lastest genetic study of Harvard medical school found out?

Reconstructing Austronesian population history in Island Southeast Asia : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group

 

[hans]

Viet is what the north China people call the south China people two thousands years ago
It covers vast land from Changjiang river to Vietnam, which newly joined the united China country.
These kind of newly joined land will separate and become independent if central government is collapsed
Nam Viet is once also independent but soon rejoin the China.
Vietnam get independent in around 1000 AD and no longer return.
Chinese emperor give the name Vietnam, meaning even south part of Nam Viet.

Hello People,

I just wanted to pick someone's brain here.

Beside looking at historical literatures and documentations, has anyone looked at the cardinal directions of what was perceived as North and South during these ancient kingdoms of Qin, Nam Viet and Han?

2nd Century Han cartographers used South-up maps, where the directions we know of today as "South" was on top and right was West that pointed toward the Pacific Ocean. This may explain why the oriental compass needles points to cardinal South.

During Western Jin, around 267 AD, Jin's Minister/Cartographer flipped the cardinal directions.

Europe, during the Middle Ages used East orientation maps, where Asia is on top, left is Europe and right is Africa. There were no South because it was considered uninhabited.

If there was a Nam Viet Kingdom, was there a Bac Viet Kingdom? If there was a Bac Viet Kingdom or just Viet Kingdom, would it be located North or South of Nam Viet?

 

[xesy]

Viet is what the north China people call the south China people two thousands years ago
It covers vast land from Changjiang river to Vietnam, which newly joined the united China country.
These kind of newly joined land will separate and become independent if central government is collapsed
Nam Viet is once also independent but soon rejoin the China.
Vietnam get independent in around 1000 AD and no longer return.
Chinese emperor give the name Vietnam, meaning even south part of Nam Viet.

I will translate the wiki for you

"Vietnam first appeared in Nguyen Dyansty. Gia Long emperor requested the Qing govt to use the name "Nam Viet" but was denied because ancient China had a country with the same name so it was reversed to become Vietnam....
However, there are evidences that Vietnam might appear even before that. Scholar Ho Thong Toc wrote a book called Viet Nam The Chi at the end of 13th century. Nguyen Trai used the word VN many times in his Du Dia Chi during the early 15th century. There are numerous stone marks bearing the word VN around pagodas, temples in North VN, all of which were build around 15-16th centuries."

I want to correct you that Chinese emperor only agreed VN to use that name, not that he gave VN the name.

 

[hans]

As I said, this name is formerly used as country name for Vietnam since that.
Informal names make no sense...

"Vietnam first appeared in Nguyen Dyansty. Gia Long emperor requested the Qing govt to use the name "Nam Viet" but was denied because ancient China had a country with the same name so it was reversed to become Vietnam....
However, there are evidences that Vietnam might appear even before that. Scholar Ho Thong Toc wrote a book called Viet Nam The Chi at the end of 13th century. Nguyen Trai used the word VN many times in his Du Dia Chi during the early 15th century. There are numerous stone marks bearing the word VN around pagodas, temples in North VN, all of which were build around 15-16th centuries.

 

[xesy]

As I said, this name is formerly used as country name for Vietnam since that.
Informal names make no sense...

Well, later Minh Mang emperor changed the name to Dai Nam. I guess that is that, huh?

 

[hans]

But the official name is still Vietnam, right?
All over the world use Vietnam. mean south(Nam) of Viet
Dai(Big) Nam(South) is a very typical name that a smaller country call itself in China....

Well, later Minh Mang emperor changed the name to Dai Nam. I guess that is that, huh?

 

[xesy]

But the official name is still Vietnam, right?
All over the world use Vietnam. mean south(Nam) of Viet
Dai(Big) Nam(South) is a very typical name that a smaller country call itself in China....

You mean now or back then? With the Frence came in we all became Anamese FYI.
Of course Minh Mang was a pro-France, so he changed it without Qing govt agreement. He might want to use Dai Nam for the whole French Indochina colony. Too bad the French disagreed.

 

[hans]

Names are for history.
Even you change to Dai Nam, I think majority will call it Vietnam...
It is used for so many years

You mean now or back then? With the Frence came in we all became Anamese FYI.
Of course Minh Mang was a pro-France, so he changed it without Qing govt agreement. He might want to use Dai Nam for the whole French Indochina colony. Too bad the French disagreed.

 

[xesy]

Names are for history.
Even you change to Dai Nam, I think majority will call it Vietnam...
It is used for so many years

Time will change everything. Before people still call Saigon by the old name Gia Dinh, now I don't see anyone use that anymore.

 

[hans]

Internally yes it can change very fast..
In the world, people still call you Vietnam..

Time will change everything. Before people still call Saigon by the old name Gia Dinh, now I don't see anyone use that anymore.

 

[xesy]

Internally yes it can change very fast..
In the world, people still call you Vietnam..

I doubt it. Because to the West, we were known as Anamese (during the colonial period). When we kicked French ***, they changed to call us VNese. Guess that it always takes something for people to change, right?

 

[hans]

Not sure how others call you
In China it is not changed at all...

I doubt it. Because to the West, we were known as Anamese (during the colonial period). When we kicked French ***, they changed to call us VNese. Guess that it always takes something for people to change, right?

 

[Shishike]

Chinese is based on the culture not the race, as a teacher, we teach Vietnamese so much things, whatever tradition or religion, but still when you guys needed us to protect you, we were/would be there.
Fine, you call it aggression, but in lots of history books in Chinese, even wrote by Vietnamese government at that moment, you guys asked us to be there for help you people.
Overall, you should know, the culture is not completed without Vietnam. You are a part of Chinese culture, not an independent one.
We are family, back to us, back to using Chinese words.

so if a vietnamese has a chinese surname, so the person is chinese?
are Vietnamese Chinese in reality or vice versa?
are all Americans in reality Germans, or of Irish ethnic or slaves from Africa? so there is no such a state as America?
Many Germans have surnames, which are derived from old ancient Kingdoms. who are they? Italian or Greek?

some studies suggest the first Chinese came from Africa. are you African?
congrat: you are NOT chinese. you are a fake chinese.

or are Vietnamese in reality Taiwanese as the lastest genetic study of Harvard medical school found out?

 

[Rechoice]

Chinese is based on the culture not the race, as a teacher, we teach Vietnamese so much things, whatever tradition or religion, but still when you guys needed us to protect you, we were/would be there.
Fine, you call it aggression, but in lots of history books in Chinese, even wrote by Vietnamese government at that moment, you guys asked us to be there for help you people.
Overall, you should know, the culture is not completed without Vietnam. You are a part of Chinese culture, not an independent one.
We are family, back to us, back to using Chinese words.

It is wet dream, bro.

Problem is that Viet regained independence from China, But Nan Yue, Min Yue, Yelang , Dian guo, Nan Chao ...can not.

Culturally Confucius is influenced in Vietnam like Marxism, Buddhism etc. and now it is a westerner values.

We speak Mon/Khmer language not Sino-Tibetan language.

Not sure how others call you
In China it is not changed at all...

what is funny here, An Nan Guo in the past and now Vietnam. Vietnamese was Jiao Zhi people in the past and become Kinh ren in ethnicity nowaday in Vietnam.