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History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

he he he...welcome to the forum. are you japanese? cool. we need more japanese members here.
yes, kinh is capital. the majority of Vietnamese is ethnic kinh, the people of capital.
Thank you for the information.

About the name "Kinh" to describe yourself as of Vietnamese ethnicity, I heard of a story of the origin of the first use of this word to refer to northern Vietnamese in China but do not know how true it is since the use of the word "Kinh" (Gin/Jing;京) when referring to Vietnamese people in China dated back to the 1600s. Maybe someone here can confirm?

The story goes that during the 17th-19th century, in China, if you were to ask a non-Manchus where the king reside, they would say to the South, where the capital is at (perhaps as an act of defiance against the Qing monarchy or perhaps they felt that Viet monarchy was a much closer kin to their former Ming than the ruling Qing). Therefore, the name Kinh is still used to this day to refer to Vietnamese living in China. Nevertheless, this views may have changed as the influences of the Qing monarchy and power spread throughout China.

As I know today, traveling through Vietnam, southern Vietnamese refer to northern Vietnamese as "Bắc Kỳ" (Northern Flag) and Vietnamese people refer to themselves as "người Việt" to foreigners and use "người Kinh" to differ themselves from the ethnic minorities in Vietnam.
 
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Bui Vien in 1876 did what you think. He asked USA for help to counter France. But envoy 1888 is meaning less, because agreement Quy Mui 1883 .Vietnam was already under control (protectorate) of France .

Bui Vien street in Ho Chi Minh city.

bui-vien-day12.jpg
 
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It is shamelessly for you, when such modern terms, developing terminology for modern technology and for political and economic concepts, chinese did not created by yourselves first. Japanese did it and Chinese borrowed back.

You can not deny this truth.
You've been busted already on your claims on wenhua etc,the Japanese used Chinese Hanzi with the same meaning in Chinese languages and merely combined them.

as I said before, It is should be a joke. In fact, Sun Yat Sen is hakka in ethnicity and Le Loi is Kinh Viet.
You should read "A History of the Vietnamese" ,there were regionalism tensions amongst Sinicized Red River elites and the unsincized Thanh Hoa elites. While Sun Yixian's ancestors were not treated as Zhuang and had the same culture as their neighbors.

Tell me when did Kinh even apply to Le Loi,an analogy would be calling Qin Shihuang a Han.

The modern day meaning of Han already coalesced during the Ming while the first time it was used as an ethonym was during the Northern Wei while Kinh was abandoned during the Nguyen and revived during modern times.

Hakka means guest :haha:
They are still considered Han.
 
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I do have a question for the Vietnamese members here: @xesy , @Viet , @dichoi , @Battle of Bach Dang River , @BoQ77 --

During Annam / Dai Viet's expansion to the south, was there a policy by the Sovreigns in Annam / Dai Viet to conquer not just Champa (Southern Vietnam), but also what is now present day Cambodia, and Laos? I wonder what were the factors that prevented the Vietnamese from completely annexing the Kingdom of Lovek (Cambodia) and the Kingdom of Lan Xang (Laos). Do you attribute this to the Siamese / Ayudhaya ?
Personally, I think there were both external and internal factors that prevented VN from expanding at that time. Internally, VN had a century long civil war, and neither sides could completely anihilate the other side. That was a time of chaos, if you ask me. Externally, Siam empire was a formidable rival, roughly equal in military power as VN. And there was China, who wouldn't want a new power rising from the South, especially our expansion started right after Ming dynasty collapsed and Qing dynasty established. Also after the civil war, the govt was a pro-China govt, and would listen to anything Chinese emperor wanted.
 
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Thank you for the information.

About the name "Kinh" to describe yourself as of Vietnamese ethnicity, I heard of a story of the origin of the first use of this word to refer to northern Vietnamese in China but do not know how true it is since the use of the word "Kinh" (Gin/Jing;京) when referring to Vietnamese people in China dated back to the 1600s. Maybe someone here can confirm?

The story goes that during the 17th-19th century, in China, if you were to ask a non-Manchus where the king reside, they would say to the South, where the capital is at (perhaps as an act of defiance against the Qing monarchy or perhaps they felt that Viet monarchy was a much closer kin to their former Ming than the ruling Qing). Therefore, the name Kinh is still used to this day to refer to Vietnamese living in China. Nevertheless, this views may have changed as the influences of the Qing monarchy and power spread throughout China.

As I know today, traveling through Vietnam, southern Vietnamese refer to northern Vietnamese as "Bắc Kỳ" (Northern Flag) and Vietnamese people refer to themselves as "người Việt" to foreigners and use "người Kinh" to differ themselves from the ethnic minorities in Vietnam.
I don´t have the info when the term "kinh" came into existence, and still have to search a bit more to find out. kinh is most likely derived by jing in chinese: Beijing (northern capigtal), Nanjing (southern capital).

basically the vietnamese people consist of 86% of ethnic kinh as majority and 14% of the ethnics as minority (54 groups such as Tay, Tai, Hmong, Hoa, Khmer, Nung, and many others).

who are the kinh people?

yes, Kinh means capital, here Hanoi city or more precise the Red river delta. the region is the place when the first Vietnamese settled down and cultivated the land. Unlike the Kinh, many other ethnics live in mountainous regions. So the kinh distinguish themselves from others by geographic locations. the Kinh live mainly in cities and coastal regions.

Hanoi.jpg


apart from that, the Kinh have different cultures and custom than other ethnics. so basically Kinh are sinized people. I understand, the recent genetic study of Harvard medical school shows the Kinh´s ancestors originated from Taiwan. our forefathers came to the present day Vietnam before 5,000 years ago. according to this study, the likelyhood is extremely high, the Taiwanese came as seafather and settled down in the red river delta. so Kinh people have chinese roots.
Austronesien: Südseebewohner: Aus Taiwan über Vietnam nach Polynesien? - Spektrum der Wissenschaft

Also, the DNA study of the hospital Saint-Louis in Paris confirmed the assumption that the Vietnamese population has evolved from the tai/Indonesian and the southern Chinese population.
Vietnamesen – Wikipedia

some studies show a different picture. the first Vietnamese originated from austronesians. they came from the western pacific. some genetic research show the Viet people have mixed with the mongolians, who came as settlers to Vietnam.

so, we don´t know for 100 per cent. Perhaps more future researches can bring more light into this.

Yes, the people of Gin/Jing;京 is Vietnamese migrants, who came to China hundreds of year ago. they belong to one of the recognised minorities in China.
China Wiki – The free encyclopedia on China, china.org.cn
Gin_clothes.jpg


yes, you are right at the last part. "Bắc Kỳ" is northerner.
 
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You've been busted already on your claims on wenhua etc,the Japanese used Chinese Hanzi with the same meaning in Chinese languages and merely combined them.


You should read "A History of the Vietnamese" ,there were regionalism tensions amongst Sinicized Red River elites and the unsincized Thanh Hoa elites. While Sun Yixian's ancestors were not treated as Zhuang and had the same culture as their neighbors.

Tell me when did Kinh even apply to Le Loi,an analogy would be calling Qin Shihuang a Han.

The modern day meaning of Han already coalesced during the Ming while the first time it was used as an ethonym was during the Northern Wei while Kinh was abandoned during the Nguyen and revived during modern times.


They are still considered Han.
I believe the term/concept kinh did not exist when Le Loi reigned Vietnam. and there is no doubt he is vietnamese.
or do you think he is chinese?
 
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It is nothing wrong bro, when we could borrow some word or many words from other people in the world. It is normal life as we are human being.

I just answered ( trolled ) on you guy when he said that in the past Han Zi is official used in Vietnam and in Nguyễn Dynasty era our historian labeled Kinh people is Han, it mean culturally Viets are Han Chinese.

You nick is Xi Hu in Jie Jiang, do you come from 浙江省 ?

Trolled? Meaning? I don't know about that, sorry.
西湖 is Western Lake. 东湖 is East Lake. My family come from 山东. You know a little bit Chinese? It's very good!
 
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I do have a question for the Vietnamese members here: @xesy , @Viet , @dichoi , @Battle of Bach Dang River , @BoQ77 --

During Annam / Dai Viet's expansion to the south, was there a policy by the Sovreigns in Annam / Dai Viet to conquer not just Champa (Southern Vietnam), but also what is now present day Cambodia, and Laos? I wonder what were the factors that prevented the Vietnamese from completely annexing the Kingdom of Lovek (Cambodia) and the Kingdom of Lan Xang (Laos). Do you attribute this to the Siamese / Ayudhaya ?
as far as I know we had no real plan to completely annex Laos and Cambodia.

from the strategic perspective, we need both Laos and Cambodia as buffer states against possible attacks/invasions from China and Thailand. our western flank. Besides, China would answer with a war if we attempted to annex these Kingdoms. After the 3rd Vietnam-Siam war, Cambodia was put under joint Vietnam-Thailand protection. I read there was indeed a plan to cut Cambodia into two pieces, one half goes to Vietnam and the other half to the Thai.

the invasion of colonial power France into Vietnam sabotaged the annexation.

Trolled? Meaning? I don't know about that, sorry.
西湖 is Western Lake. 东湖 is East Lake. My family come from 山东. You know a little bit Chinese? It's very good!
oh...you come from Shandong. I wonder why you don´t pick country flags?
welcome to the forum, bro.
 
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as far as I know we had no real plan to completely annex Laos and Cambodia.

from the strategic perspective, we need both Laos and Cambodia as buffer states against possible attacks/invasions from China and Thailand. our western flank. Besides, China would answer with a war if we attempted to annex these Kingdoms. After the 3rd Vietnam-Siam war, Cambodia was put under joint Vietnam-Thailand protection. I read there was indeed a plan to cut Cambodia into two pieces, one half goes to Vietnam and the other half to the Thai.

the invasion of colonial power France into Vietnam sabotaged the annexation.
Yo, have you heard of Cambodian extremists burned VN flag in front of VNese embassy and demanded VN to return most of South Vietnam, which they called Khmer Khrom, icluding the Mekong River Delta and Saigon city? Now that's what I call ungrateful.
 
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Vietnamese official website (Chinese vision) said that Ao Dai is origionally from Qipao.
Did you mean wikipedia? VNese version states "No one knows exactly when the ancient Ao Dai was created and how it looked like because of the lack of historical records and no one has really done in-dept researches".
 
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Vietnamese official website (Chinese vision) said that Ao Dai is origionally from Qipao.
the designer took the idea of qipao. the result is not the same dress. qipao is more sexy, while ao dai covers more the body. ao tu than is Vietnam centuries old tradional dress. I don´t know when qipao came into existence.

qipao
qipao-10.jpg
is

ao dai
ao_dai_02_by_itaq-d4j2vfh.jpg



ao thu than
AoTuThan_Rose_01.jpg
 
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