History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Rechoice]

Manchurian ruler is the Qing, similar to the Mongolian as Yuan.

I guess Tu Duc sent envoy to pay tribute and to seek help from Qing in the fight against the French. I am trying to understand why the Qing failed to protect Vietnam despite the fact the Nguyen had formally recognised the Qing as suzerain. Yes, we paid tributes, but we received obviously no protection in return. When Chinese were willing to intervene, that was too late.

Bui Vien in 1876 did what you think. He asked USA for help to counter France. But envoy 1888 is meaning less, because agreement Quy Mui 1883 .Vietnam was already under control (protectorate) of France .

 

[Grand Historian]

I copy for you, it said about Yuan pao:

" Dragon Robe from the Yuan dynasty.The earliest literary references to emperors donning dragon robes occur in an ancient text called Shujing(书经). In it, the mystical Emperor Shun describes an ideal imperial costume as one which contained images of the sun, moon, stars, dragons and mountains, as these are all emblems of the empire and the emperor's power."

It said; From the Yuan Dynasty,

Dressing Yuan Dynasty on Pinterest

I said about Ming Emperor and his guards's costume type only, I don't said a word "gongfu" .

Nope, you quoted KirovAirship in his reply about Ming era gongfu.

"Ming Dynasty style is Yuan style of Mongolian. Qing style is Manchurian style."

You made this ridiculous claim now why don't you back it up?

 

[Jlaw]

it's hopeless with these china expert macacas. Always stealing our history, even our Ming dynasty hanfu suddenly are traditional Vietnamese style.

let's take a pic of yourself in jeans, post it here and say that the West copied your style of clothing. Viet logic at it's worse. It's not even funny anymore.

 

[terranMarine]

let's take a pic of yourself in jeans, post it here and say that the West copied your style of clothing. Viet logic at it's worse. It's not even funny anymore.

the sad thing is they treat themselves as China expert, some Chinese cultural stuff were copied from Vietnam well they insist we did anyway. Have they been brainwashed by their own ancestors/textbooks?

 

[Huaren]

the sad thing is they treat themselves as China expert, some Chinese cultural stuff were copied from Vietnam well they insist we did anyway. Have they been brainwashed by their own ancestors/textbooks?

They have been brainwashed by their delusions and obsessions.

 

[terranMarine]

They have been brainwashed by their delusions and obsessions.

obsessed with Chinese rich history and as the sole Asian #1 for thousands of years

 

[Huaren]

obsessed with Chinese rich history and as the sole Asian #1 for thousands of years

They are not the only one with such obsession, remember the tales from Korea and propaganda from Japan? They are always eager to take any oppertunity to claim chinese heritages to call themselves the true "heir" or "origin". Especially when china had fallout with babarians and when some chinese citizens took refuge in their land, suddently the rest of chinese civilization were to be considered extinct, and voila we got some new heir(s). They have never realized the resilience of chinese civilization (where their own pride as nation is formed after), even if they did they would refuse to acknowledge it and continued to fool themselves.
However I see their obsession with China as compliment, although a bit annoying.

 

[East Lake]

read more here, I quote for you. Chinese borrowed from Japanese many combination words were created by Japanese first.

Terms from Japanese, however, have been more readily accepted when the Japanese used their own borrowed Chinese characters when developing terminology for modern technology and for political and economic concepts. The Japanese pronounced the Chinese characters in their pronunciation of them, while the Chinese borrowed the written versions and pronounced them in the Chinese way. Some examples
(Norman 1988) are:

Japanese /Chinese Meaning

bunka /文化 wenhua / culture
kakumei /革命 geming / revolution
kagaku /科学 kexue / science
keito /系统 xitong / system
shakai /社会 shehui / society

Some of these compounds had existed in Chinese, but the Japanese used them to translate modern concepts. So such combination words 文化 ,社会 , 革命 , 科学 , 系统 were created by Japanese, not Chinese.

Don't forget that Kwan dong, Kwan xi province was native land of Nan Yue people. Kwan xi , there is Zhuang Authonom.

Although it is true that Chinese reborrowed a lot of Western ideas through the use of Japanese. I wouldn't call this borrowing from Japan in a traditional sense. These words were using Classical Chinese to translate Western ideas. The only difference is that a Japanese person created these words. I don't think China would have borrowed them if it weren't for convenience or if they were actually Japanese. There's only so many combinations you can use Chinese to translate modern words. I would think China would have came up with a similar combination or something different (like some other modern words).

I am fluent in Chinese and can't think of any actual Japanese words of the top of my head. I think I've heard Ichiban used before, but very rare.

As for 汉 it can mean manliness like 大男汉.

 

[xesy]

They have been brainwashed by their delusions and obsessions.

Excuse me, I used to pretty neutral towards China, even like it a little a few years back (my mom worked for a Chinese corp). I grew up near the VN-China border yet there was no "special education" applied to me during my times there. Most VNese didn't hate China as you might think. It all started with the 9 dash lines map in 2009. That was when anti-China movement started among VNese. Many didn't take it seriously at first, thinking that was just an act of anti-communist govt factions. But with China stepped up their actions: arresting fishing ships, even shooting them, destroying VNese national properties (Binh Minh cable ship incident) or even trespassing our EEZ, many VNese becomes angry. You are wrong about us being brainwashed. No China makes us hate itself.

obsessed with Chinese rich history and as the sole Asian #1 for thousands of years

Nope, that's your obessesion.

 

[dichoi]

How shameless are you other posters have already shown you many of the supposed words that were borrowed from the Japanese already had a Chinese origin.
You do realize that these words are based on combining different Hanzi that have the same meaning in Chinese right?

It is shamelessly for you, when such modern terms, developing terminology for modern technology and for political and economic concepts, chinese did not created by yourselves first. Japanese did it and Chinese borrowed back.

You can not deny this truth.

If you're going to argue that Guangdong/Guangxi used to belong to Nanyue,then you have to realize the culture was highly Sinicized and followed a Qin model showing that they already considered themselves Chinese.
Furthermore the Zhuang that remained autonomous and tusi existed primarily in Western Guangxi while Sun Yixian's ancestral village were made up of Hans.

as I said before, It is should be a joke. In fact, Sun Yat Sen is hakka in ethnicity and Le Loi is Kinh Viet.

 

[Aepsilons]

I do have a question for the Vietnamese members here: @xesy , @Viet , @dichoi , @Battle of Bach Dang River , @BoQ77 --

During Annam / Dai Viet's expansion to the south, was there a policy by the Sovreigns in Annam / Dai Viet to conquer not just Champa (Southern Vietnam), but also what is now present day Cambodia, and Laos? I wonder what were the factors that prevented the Vietnamese from completely annexing the Kingdom of Lovek (Cambodia) and the Kingdom of Lan Xang (Laos). Do you attribute this to the Siamese / Ayudhaya ?

 

[dichoi]

Although it is true that Chinese reborrowed a lot of Western ideas through the use of Japanese. I wouldn't call this borrowing from Japan in a traditional sense. These words were using Classical Chinese to translate Western ideas. The only difference is that a Japanese person created these words. I don't think China would have borrowed them if it weren't for convenience or if they were actually Japanese. There's only so many combinations you can use Chinese to translate modern words. I would think China would have came up with a similar combination or something different (like some other modern words).

I am fluent in Chinese and can't think of any actual Japanese words of the top of my head. I think I've heard Ichiban used before, but very rare.

As for 汉 it can mean manliness like 大男汉.

It is nothing wrong bro, when we could borrow some word or many words from other people in the world. It is normal life as we are human being.

I just answered ( trolled ) on you guy when he said that in the past Han Zi is official used in Vietnam and in Nguyễn Dynasty era our historian labeled Kinh people is Han, it mean culturally Viets are Han Chinese.

You nick is Xi Hu in Jie Jiang, do you come from 浙江省 ?

 

[Brainsucker]

It is shamelessly for you, when such modern terms, developing terminology for modern technology and for political and economic concepts, chinese did not created by yourselves first. Japanese did it and Chinese borrowed back.

You can not deny this truth.

as I said before, It is should be a joke. In fact, Sun Yat Sen is hakka in ethnicity and Le Loi is Kinh Viet.

I'm a Hakka myself. But Hakka is an ethnic? Nope. Hakka is a part of Han ethnicity.

 

[BoQ77]

I do have a question for the Vietnamese members here: ] --

During Annam / Dai Viet's expansion to the south, was there a policy by the Sovreigns in Annam / Dai Viet to conquer not just Champa (Southern Vietnam), but also what is now present day Cambodia, and Laos? I wonder what were the factors that prevented the Vietnamese from completely annexing the Kingdom of Lovek (Cambodia) and the Kingdom of Lan Xang (Laos). Do you attribute this to the Siamese / Ayudhaya ?

Others could have different opinion, especially NiceGuy.

In my opinion, Dai Viet residents almost based on River Delta land for growing rice.
And until pre-Nguyen Dynasty during 18th century, the civil conflict between Tay Son vs Nguyen Phuc Anh still have intervene of Siam military as backup to Nguyen Phuc Anh in nowaday South Vietnam.

Nguyen Phuc Anh put his base in Mekong River Delta, when he defeated Tay Son dynasty, he unified Vietnam as One look like nowaday Vietnam. It's him not French merged South Vietnam into Greater Vietnam.

Under his rule, Vietnam strengthened its military dominance in Indochina, expelling Siamese forces from Cambodia and turning it into a vassal state.

 

[dichoi]

I do have a question for the Vietnamese members here: @xesy , @Viet , @dichoi , @Battle of Bach Dang River , @BoQ77 --

During Annam / Dai Viet's expansion to the south, was there a policy by the Sovreigns in Annam / Dai Viet to conquer not just Champa (Southern Vietnam), but also what is now present day Cambodia, and Laos? I wonder what were the factors that prevented the Vietnamese from completely annexing the Kingdom of Lovek (Cambodia) and the Kingdom of Lan Xang (Laos). Do you attribute this to the Siamese / Ayudhaya ?

Here is map of Annam Empire mad by France before time Napoleon III took the first steps to establishing a French colonial influence in Indochina in 1858. In fact Laotien and Cambodian King is still existed and could ruled in their own land as stated in the map.