History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[mrfly911]

How many time I have to tell you that the word 漢 in Han-Viet, this word got also a meaning "Majority people" in "Han - Man" concept. It is equivalent to "Kinh-Thuong" or "Mien Xuoi- Mien Nguoc" in Vietnamese.

So, is 漢城 or Seoul means The city of Majorrity (Korean) people?

I would like to borrow comment of mrfly911 that: the people in 漢城 or Seoul is culturally Han chinese, the rést òf Korean people are not.

Is 漢城 or Seoul means The city of (Han) Chinese?

 

[Grand Historian]

How about 漢城 Seoul?

Do you even know what toponym is?

You do realize that its based on the Han river.

read more here, I quote for you. Chinese borrowed from Japanese many combination words were created by Japanese first.

Terms from Japanese, however, have been more readily accepted when the Japanese used their own borrowed Chinese characters when developing terminology for modern technology and for political and economic concepts. The Japanese pronounced the Chinese characters in their pronunciation of them, while the Chinese borrowed the written versions and pronounced them in the Chinese way. Some examples
(Norman 1988) are:

Japanese /Chinese Meaning

bunka /文化 wenhua / culture
kakumei /革命 geming / revolution
kagaku /科学 kexue / science
keito /系统 xitong / system
shakai /社会 shehui / society

Some of these compounds had existed in Chinese, but the Japanese used them to translate modern concepts. So such combination words 文化 ,社会 , 革命 , 科学 , 系统 were created by Japanese, not Chinese.

http://www.uri.edu/iaics/content/2005v14n2/05 Bates L. Hoffer.pdf

How shameless are you other posters have already shown you many of the supposed words that were borrowed from the Japanese already had a Chinese origin.

You do realize that these words are based on combining different Hanzi that have the same meaning in Chinese right?

Don't forget that Kwan dong, Kwan xi province was native land of Nan Yue people. Kwan xi , there is Zhuang Authonom.

If you're going to argue that Guangdong/Guangxi used to belong to Nanyue,then you have to realize the culture was highly Sinicized and followed a Qin model showing that they already considered themselves Chinese.

Furthermore the Zhuang that remained autonomous and tusi existed primarily in Western Guangxi while Sun Yixian's ancestral village were made up of Hans.

 

[Rechoice]

You're literally too stupid to comprehend the difference between the Emperor's yuanlingpao and the Mongol style one.

I already posted the Hongwu Emperor,that is a dragon robe.

"Ming Dynasty style is Yuan style of Mongolian. Qing style is Manchurian style."

While I showed you that he pao predate the Mongols,the Wushamao evolved from the putou and that the mandarin square wasn't used during the Yuan.

You made the claim now prove it

you are funny historian bro, dragon robe or Huang Pao is for the festival, huang jia ceremony or court meetting session. Hongwu Emperor in everyday life is like this with dark color robe.

 

[Grand Historian]

you are funny historian bro, dragon robe or Huang Pao is for the festival, huang jia ceremony or court meetting session. Hongwu Emperor in everyday life is like this with dark color robe.

Nice to see the liar hasn't changed at all.

 

[SimonTagawa]

Đông Kinh (Kingdom in the East), not 'Động Kinh', bro. 'Động Kinh' is brain disease

Yes, I see now. Thank you for the correction. I meant to write Đông Kinh (Eastern Capital) and not Động Kinh.

Tokyo, Japan was called Edo. The city's name was changed Tokyo (東京) in 1868.

 

[SimonTagawa]

very boring with such arrogant troll , look at yourself Hokkien people. Min Nan people ran around in China under rule of Han Chinese. Taiwan Hokkien people was also ruled by Japanese after first Sino-Japan war, didn't escaped to where (part of you to south east asian) .

Pls focus on independence of Taiwan first.

Not my fault you are too incompetent to realize that Vietnam provoked China multiple times instead of your nationalist narrative that Chinese wanted to invade Vietnam for no reason.

What do Minnan and Taiwanese Han have to do with Vietnam?

Every single time you run out of arguments you rely on flamebaiting others.


Read books instead of whining to me,why are Vietnamese so upset to find out the truth?

They didn't live in Chinese lands or had descendants that became Chinese the source of these raids were from Vietnam,while the minorities of Guangxi and Yunnan rarely allied invading Vietnamese forces and conducted their own rebellions/raids.

The Ho dynasty had no reason to raid Chinese provinces,as these events transpired before the Tran pretender reached the Ming court as well as Hongwu Emperor proclaiming that Vietnam was one the countries the Ming shouldn't invade.

Hi, sorry to butt into your conversations. Do you folks know the history of the Kingdom of Tungning which was once located in today's Taiwan? After the fall of Ming to the Manchus Qing, Teiseiko (郑成功) or Trịnh Thành Công in vietnamese, a military leader, led Hokkien people to what is now Taiwan to resist the Manchus. His clan is also know as nhà Trịnh (house of Trịnh) in vietnamese. This history is somewhat obscured through hundreds of years of politics and boundaries. Only little facts and lore remain of the existence of this short-live kingdom.

Through thousands of years of intermarriages between people from different origin who seek employment in different kingdoms or nations, isn't it amazing that most people could trace their surnames to a common ancestry? History sure can unite and divide people. A very useful tool for politicians.

 

[Viet]

Yes, I see now. Thank you for the correction. I meant to write Đông Kinh (Eastern Capital) and not Động Kinh.

Tokyo, Japan was called Edo. The city's name was changed Tokyo (東京) in 1868.

he he he...welcome to the forum. are you japanese? cool. we need more japanese members here.
yes, kinh is capital. the majority of Vietnamese is ethnic kinh, the people of capital.

 

[Grand Historian]

Hi, sorry to butt into your conversations. Do you folks know the history of the Kingdom of Tungning which was once located in today's Taiwan? After the fall of Ming to the Manchus Qing, Teiseiko (郑成功) or Trịnh Thành Công in vietnamese, a military leader, led Hokkien people to what is now Taiwan to resist the Manchus. His clan is also know as nhà Trịnh (house of Trịnh) in vietnamese. This history is somewhat obscured through hundreds of years of politics and boundaries. Only little facts and lore remain of the existence of this short-live kingdom.

Through thousands of years of intermarriages between people from different origin who seek employment in different kingdoms or nations, isn't it amazing that most people could trace their surnames to a common ancestry? History sure can unite and divide people. A very useful tool for politicians.

Except Zheng Chengong/Koxinga or his descendants never viewed themselves as Japanese despite having Japanese ancestry.

Some Taiwanese Han do indeed trace their ancestry to the Ming loyalists of Zheng Chengong however a large portion of hist troops returned to the mainland after Shi Lang's victory and subsequent Qing annexation.

The only relationship between Southern Fujianese and Vietnamese is that Fujianese Han migrated to Vietnam.

 

[Viet]

@Grand Historian

that is perhaps of your interest. below is a record of the tribute-bearing mission in 1880 by the Vietnamese emperor Tu Duc to Imperial China. Tu Duc was the fourth of the twelve Nguyen dynasty emperors. I am a bit surprised that although the French had Vietnam under control by conquest and colonization, Vietnamese emperors continued to pay tributes to the Qing. The French had tried to disrupte the tribute missions.

well, the Nguyen Emperor Tu Duc reigned over a declining country Vietnam.

This map shows the Vietnamese tribute mission traveling through Gong Xian County in Henan Province and crossing the Luo River.British Library

Arriving at Ansu Xian County in Hebei Province, north of the Yellow River, their route took them through temples and the White PagodaBritish Library

The manuscript names various towns and distances in between them.British Library


These ancient manuscripts show China dominated Vietnam in the 1800s, too – Quartz

 

[Rechoice]

Nice to see the liar hasn't changed at all.

I posted such pic of Ming Dynasty's Emperor in China, which painted by chinese,

Are they liars ?

 

[Grand Historian]

I posted such pic of Ming Dynasty's Emperor in China, which painted by chinese,

Are they liars ?

Which has nothing to with the Emperor's yuanlingpao ie dragon robe which you claimed originated from the Mongols.

I never stated that the Ming didn't adopt any Mongol elements,rather you insisted that Ming dynasty gongfu was Mongolian which I proved wasn't.

 

[Rechoice]

The manuscript names various towns and distances in between them.British Library
These ancient manuscripts show China dominated Vietnam in the 1800s, too – Quartz

It is envoy to normal diplomacy relation in the past with Man Qing, when Manchurian ruled China.

Tu Duc has also sended Bui Vien to USA. from Hue he traveled by ship to Hongkong in 1873, to Yakohoma and arrived to Washington, he met US president Ulysses Grant (term 1868 1876).

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bùi_Viện

 

[Grand Historian]

It is envoy to normal diplomacy relation in the past with Man Qing, when Manchurian ruled China.

Tu Duc has also sended Bui Vien to USA.

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bùi_Viện

How many lies are you going to state the Qing government never called themselves Man Qing and neither did the average Han.

 

[Viet]

It is envoy to normal diplomacy relation in the past with Man Qing, when Manchurian ruled China.

Tu Duc has also sended Bui Vien to USA.

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bùi_Viện

Manchurian ruler is the Qing, similar to the Mongolian as Yuan.

I guess Tu Duc sent envoy to pay tribute and to seek help from Qing in the fight against the French. I am trying to understand why the Qing failed to protect Vietnam despite the fact the Nguyen had formally recognised the Qing as suzerain. Yes, we paid tributes, but we received obviously no protection in return. When Chinese were willing to intervene, that was too late.

 

[Rechoice]

Which has nothing to with the Emperor's yuanlingpao ie dragon robe which you claimed originated from the Mongols.

I never stated that the Ming didn't adopt any Mongol elements,rather you insisted that Ming dynasty gongfu was Mongolian which I proved wasn't.

I copy for you, it said about Yuan pao:

" Dragon Robe from the Yuan dynasty.The earliest literary references to emperors donning dragon robes occur in an ancient text called Shujing(书经). In it, the mystical Emperor Shun describes an ideal imperial costume as one which contained images of the sun, moon, stars, dragons and mountains, as these are all emblems of the empire and the emperor's power."

It said; From the Yuan Dynasty,

Dressing Yuan Dynasty on Pinterest

I said about Ming Emperor and his guards's costume type only, I don't said a word "gongfu" .