History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Viet]

@Viet Nice pics!

small but beautiful, isn´t it? But I´m a bit disappointed of our slow pace of economic development.

 

[Snomannen]

@Viet

Let me tell you who is the really troll -it is that freaking Nanman monkey who created the hilarious retarded "true Han" theory, keep telling/ repeating the same nonsenses and incite Chinese people living in different regions to claim freaking independence.

China calls on Japan to respect historical facts

Last year this monkey even claim that Manchurian wants to be independent based on a freaking stupid so-called "Manchugor government" website which asks for stupid people to donate and buy their stupid "currency" and "passport".

Please don't defend this bloody bastard just because he speaks the same language as you do.

 

[Viet]

@Viet

Let me tell you who is the really troll -it is that freaking Nanman monkey who created the hilarious retarded "true Han" theory, keep telling/ repeating the same nonsenses and incite Chinese people living in different regions to claim freaking independence.

China calls on Japan to respect historical facts

Last year this monkey even claim that Manchurian wants to be independent based on a freaking stupid so-called "Manchugor government" website which asks for stupid people to donate and buy their stupid "currency" and "passport".

Please don't defend this bloody bastard just because he speaks the same language as you do.

I have pointed out several times that you are right, @EastSea is not right. Though I did not address him directly. Now I do: There is NO NO NO such "true" or "untrue" Han. That does not exist! Unfortunately such nonsense exists in Vietnam, I don´t know why.

The same goes to theory of "blood line": my reply post #806. I want to appeal to all, that we stop discussing such disgusted matter. As for "monkey", you may avoid this next time.

 

[Snomannen]

I have pointed out several times that you are right, @EastSea is not right. Though I did not address him directly. Now I do: There is NO NO NO such "true" or "untrue" Han. That does not exist! Unfortunately such nonsense exists in Vietnam, I don´t know why.

The same goes to theory of "blood line": my reply post #806. I want to appeal to all, that we stop discussing such disgusted matter. As for "monkey", you may avoid this next time.

Then you shouldn't have call that guy a troll since she is defending our people from that creature's nonsense.

I know, that's why I respect you and thank you for your open mind and understanding, but show no 'mercy' to that two-faces, shameless, uneducated idiot.

The term "monkey" I used is to describe a single object, not a whole group.

 

[EastSea]

I have pointed out several times that you are right, @EastSea is not right. Though I did not address him directly. Now I do: There is NO NO NO such "true" or "untrue" Han. That does not exist! Unfortunately such nonsense exists in Vietnam, I don´t know why.

The same goes to theory of "blood line": my reply post #806. I want to appeal to all, that we stop discussing such disgusted matter. As for "monkey", you may avoid this next time.

You are not right bro.

Most of aggressive Chinese members here on forum are not true Han Chinese, they are Manchus, Hakka, Hokkien etc. or should come from area there was Nan Yue, Wu Yue, Min Yue land in the past.

I wandered when I dropped first in to PDF that: why they are very aggressive ? When this guys their ancestors in the past were conquered by Han Chinese ?

My answer is very simple, such boys try to show of themselves as best as possible that they are more Han than Han Chinese who living now in Middle land of China, to compensate or hidden their inferior mentality.

In fact I ignore the guy who open his mouth with full of bullshixt.

 

[Snomannen]

You are not right bro.

Most of aggressive Chinese members here on forum are not true Han Chinese, they are Manchus, Hakka, Hokkien etc. or should come from area there was Nan Yue, Wu Yue, Min Yue land in the past.

I wandered when I dropped first in to PDF that: why they are very aggressive ? When this guys their ancestors in the past were conquered by Han Chinese ?

My answer is very simple, such boys try to show of themselves as best as possible that they are more Han than Han Chinese who living now in Middle land of China, to compensate or hidden their inferior mentality.

In fact I ignore the guy who open his mouth with full of bullshixt.

He is right and you are wrong, retard, totally wrong. Even your useless life is a terrible mistake.

Oh my~ now you are calling Manchurian, Hakka and the so-called "not ture Han" (Another "true Han" nonsense, you idiot just really enjoy showing people how stupid and helpless you are~) are aggressive~ I remember not really long time ago you bastard were pretending yourself as a "friend" to Manchurian and those "slaves of Han people", and now you are showing your ugly true face because your stupid plan of inciting Chinese people never works and these "slaves of Han" never buy your hilarious bullshxi. What a bloody two-faces loser.

Ancient Chinese people didn't even share the same concept of "ethnicity" as Western did~ They never distinguished people's identity based on bloodline, but culture and the sense of identity. Yet you idiot keep saying the freaking stupid theory made from your useless brain to make people sick.

Even in Macau we care less about other people's ethnicity, unlike you, retard, you are a goddamn racist. You talk as a racist, you think as a racist. That's why your so-called "simple answer" doesn't make any sense and so freaking stupid~

EastSea said: ↑
base on your stupid logic, some Yue women were f**ked by foreign Han invaders, then all next generation of Yue peoples become Hans (?)

The Macau peoples was ruled by Portugal rulers, some Macau women were F**ked by them, in result of that you are dirty mulate Portugal and Cantonese can say to you " tiu na ma mixed kid".

KirovAirship said: ↑
What freaking logic~? I always prefer the 'generalized concept' of describing what Han ethnicity is, which means that everyone who adopts Han culture and considered/ admit themselves as a part of the Han community, they are Han no matter what so-called bloodline they share~ Just like who ever adopt Canadian culture, they are no doubt Canadians. I would never give a damn to bloodline since I'm not a racist bastard like you.

What's wrong with having several ancestries. This is totally normal in the reality which you never belong to. 宋玉生博士, 高 天賜, 歐安利... these native-born Portuguese people are all talents who has contributed a lot to Macau. Macau people (including every ethnics) respect them especially to 何鴻燊, "the King of Gambling in Macau", who has Chinese, Dutch and Jewish lineages. He even declared that he and his family only follow their matriarchal and claimed that their ancestral hometown was Baoan, Guangdong~

We don't say tiu na ma to anyone who has different lineages, we say tiu na ma to racist retarded Nanman loser~ Hey EatShxt, guess what? I "tiu" your "ma"~ Oh wait, I forgot that your mom is also your grandma, disgusting as hell.

KirovAirship said: ↑
Unfortunately to Nanman dog, in the reality, I have never seen a single case of cultural conflict like this~
We are living in a civilized society peacefully, we the normal people don't give a flying FXXK to which background you are from. Even Macaunes people (native-born Portuguese) are not considered as foreigners and they can even speak perfectly Cantonese~
Who freaking cares if there were conflicts between different people~ There are uncountable wars and conflicts since the first human was born in this world~ Northern German (Prussian) conquered Souhern German. Northern Italy united South Italy (Sicily and etc) by force. India have been invaded by several invaders (Aryan, Mongolian Mughal..) and they were all the roots of India. So why don't you sell your harsh(TM) to every ethnicity and every nations in the freaking world~ Anyway you are the one who will be killed by poor minorities in Vietnam, even though you are a fake freaking Kinh.

Oh and by the way, retard, posting your response (bullshxts) or not doesn't change the fact that you are a bloody, uneducated, shameless, racist failure~ Keep hiding around you lil dirty rat~

 

[Wholegrain]

Congratulation to 40 million True Native Cantonese. There is great when you can preserved your original Nan Yue paternal blood lineage and your Tai/Katay language with 8
tonal.

Cantonese native people don't let such fake Hans cheating you, immigrated in time of collapsing of Tang Dynasty. Hakka are not Han, they are Xiongnu (Xi Rong). Hokkien are mixed with nomads (Bei Di), they preserved many Altaic words, which they shared with Korean and Japanese in ancient time.

Native pure Nan YUE people speak Yue langguange.

The YUE, in Nanyue, and the Yue for Cantonese are entirely different characters.

粵語Yuèyǔ= Cantonese

南越 Nányuè



As for your lies about Hokkien, who are Fujian Han, they have 100% northern Han y chromosomes.

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google Books

Y chromosome data show that on average southern Chinese Han have a large paternal contribution from northern Chinese Han (82%). But mtDNA data show that southern Chinese Han have equal maternal contributions from northern Chinese Han (56%) and southern Chinese natives ( 44%) (Table 4A). The high paternal but lower maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han indicate strong sex-biased admixture in southern Chinese Han over the past two millennia (Wen et al. 2004). A more recent comparison of paternal and maternal data confirmed the sex-biased admixture in southern Chinese Han (Xue et al. 2008).

When we consider the admixture proportions of Fujian Han and Guangdong Han, the ancestors of Taiwanese Han, sex-biased admixture is even more evident than in the southern Chinese Han averages. Fujian Han are estimated to have a 100 percent paternal contribution from northern Chinese Han but only a 34 percent maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han. Guangdong Han are estimated to have 68 percent paternal but only 1 5 percent maternal contribution from northern Chinese Han. The maternal contributions from southern Chinese natives to Fujian and Guangdong Han were estimated as 66 percent and 85 percent (Table 3A), respectively. The extreme sex-biased contributions in Fujian Han and Guangdong Han indicate that the male ancestors of Taiwanese Han frequently intermarried with the female ancestors of southern Chinese natives before they migrated to Taiwan.

This sex-bias illustrates a significant feature of the Han expansion: many male migrants from northern China married women from local non-Han populations in the south. Therefore, the Han-grandfathers-Indigenous-grandmothers folk saying seems to apply generally to southern China over the past two millenia.

As for your lies about the Hakka- 80% of their y chromosomes is Han, the rest are from native southerners like the hmong mien She people and tai kadai like the Kam people. The Hakka mtdna (from the mother) is native.

Fujianese (Hokkien) Teochew, and Hakka Y chromosomes are indistinguishible from each other, they do NOT form seperate groups.

ScholarBank@NUS: Terms of Use

Using subject-declared dialect group affiliations, it was confirmed that Fujianese, Teochew, & Hakka Zhang Y Chromosomes do not form genetically distinguishable groups (STR & SNP Exact Test p = 1.0000 +/- 0 & 0.0673 +/- 0.0059, respectively).

[Origin of Hakka and Hakkanese: a genet - PubMed Mobile

[Origin of Hakka and Hakkanese: a genetics analysis].

AuthorsLi H, et al. Show all Journal
Yi Chuan Xue Bao. 2003 Sep;30(9):873-80. Article in Chinese.

Affiliation
Center for Anthropological Studies at Fudan University, Shanghai 200433, China. LH@cableplus.com.cn

Abstract
Hakka is a distinctive Han Chinese population in Southern China speaking Hakkanese. The origin of Hakka has been controversial. In this report, we analyzed Y chromosomal markers in 148 Hakka males. Principle component analysis of Y-SNP haplotype distribution shows Hakka is clusteed strongly with the Han in Northern China, and is also close to She, a Hmong-Mien-speaking population, while the general Southern Han is fairly close to Daic populations. Admixture analysis revealed that the relative genetic contribution 80.2% (Han), 13% (She) and 6.8% (Kam) in Hakka. The network of Y-STR haplotype of M7 individuals in all concerned populations suggested two possible origins of Hmong-Mien contribution in Hakka: One is from Hubei and the other is from Canton. The Kam contribution in Hakka is likely from Kan-Yue, the ancient aborigine of Kiangsi (Jiangxi). The frequency of 9bp-deletion in Region V of mitochondrial DNA of Hakka is 19.7%, which is quite close to She but far from Han. We therefore concluded that genetically the majority of Hakka gene pool shall come from North Han with She contributing the most among all non-Han groups.

PMID 14577381 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Hakka people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Origins, migrations and group identification[edit]

Hakka distribution in China, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan
It is commonly held that the Hakka are a subgroup of the Han Chinese that originated in northern China.[8][9] To trace their origins, three accepted theories so far have been brought forth among anthropologists, linguists, and historians:[10] firstly, the Hakka are Han Chinese originating solely from the Central Plain in China containing today's Shanxi and Henan provinces;[10] secondly, the Hakka are Han Chinese from the Central Plain, with some inflow of those already in the south;[10] or thirdly, the majority of the Hakka are Han Chinese from the south, with portions coming from those in the north.[10] The latter two are the most likely and are together supported by multiple scientific studies.[9][10][11] Clyde Kiang stated that the Hakka's origins may also be linked with the Han's ancient neighbors, the Dongyi and Xiongnu people.[12] This is disputed, however, by many scholars and Kiang's theories are considered controversial.[13] [/bWIt is known that the earliest major waves of Hakka migration began due to the attacks of the two afore-mentioned tribes during the Jin Dynasty (265–420).[14]

 

[EastSea]

The YUE, in Nanyue, and the Yue for Cantonese are entirely different characters.

粵語Yuèyǔ= Cantonese

南越 Nányuè



As for your lies about Hokkien, who are Fujian Han, they have 100% northern Han y chromosomes.

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google Books



As for your lies about the Hakka- 80% of their y chromosomes is Han, the rest are from native southerners like the hmong mien She people and tai kadai like the Kam people. The Hakka mtdna (from the mother) is native.

Fujianese (Hokkien) Teochew, and Hakka Y chromosomes are indistinguishible from each other, they do NOT form seperate groups.

ScholarBank@NUS: Terms of Use



[Origin of Hakka and Hakkanese: a genet - PubMed Mobile



Hakka people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I stated in my early post that:

Hakka are not Han, they are Xiongnu (Xi Rong). Hokkien are mixed with nomads (Bei Di), they preserved many Altaic words, which they shared with Korean and Japanese in ancient time.

Native pure Nan YUE people speak Yue langguange.

and read here, Wiki is also stated that Mandarin and Cantonese (Yue) are two languages is in Sino-Tibetan language family only, not one language.

The languages that are most spoken in the world today belong to the:

Indo-European family, which includes languages such as English,Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, and Hindi; the

Sino-Tibetan family, which includes Mandarin Chinese, Cantonese, and many others; the

Afro-Asiatic family, which includes Arabic, Amharic, Somali, and Hebrew; and the Bantu languages, which include Swahili, Zulu, Shona, and hundreds of other languages spoken throughout Africa.

Look at again the graphic here-under.

1/ Cantonese (Nan Yue people), Hakka, Hokkien peoples don't shared same bloodline with Northern Han (in He Nan province, there is native land of Han Chinese).

2/ Hakka, Hokkien peoples's Bloodline is differed from Native Cantonese, because they migrated late on from North to South around thousand years. They speak their own language at home, like Wu Yue people do in Sahanghai and Zhejiang. Many Celtic words are still speaking in Hokkien communities.

3/ When you prefer to say about paternal Y DNA, don't forget that 40 % of Cantonese and 37 % of Zhejiang WuYue people are preserved their original blood from their father.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I stated in my early post that:



and read here, Wiki is also stated that Mandarin and Cantonese (Yue) are two languages is in Sino-Tibetan language family only, not one language.




Look at again the graphic here-under.

1/ Cantonese (Nan Yue people), Hakka, Hokkien peoples don't shared same bloodline with Northern Han (in He Nan province, there is native land of Han Chinese).

2/ Hakka, Hokkien peoples's Bloodline is differed from Native Cantonese, because they migrated late on from North to South around thousand years. They speak their own language at home, like Wu Yue people do in Sahanghai and Zhejiang. Many Celtic words are still speaking in Hokkien communities.

3/ When you prefer to say about paternal Y DNA, don't forget that 40 % of Cantonese and 37 % of Zhejiang WuYue people are preserved their original blood from their father.

lol, this graph is bullsh1t, we don't carry that much of O1, and i don't look like a Viet at all.

 

[EastSea]

lol, this graph is bullsh1t, we don't carry that much of O1, and i don't look like a Viet at all.

Yes,

KinhViet and NgoViet (Wu Yue) people don't have nothing to do each to other; we are ASEAN people and we speak Mon-Khmer languages, you are EAST ASIA people and you speak native Wu Yue language, which language in speech to Han people and Cantonese people they can not understand what you are just talking about. You know it as well because you are Zhejiang-ren, so that Shanghai-ren could exclude Peking-ren from ongoing conversation very easy.

This bullshxt graphic made by Chinese experts,

 

[Viet]

You are not right bro.

Most of aggressive Chinese members here on forum are not true Han Chinese, they are Manchus, Hakka, Hokkien etc. or should come from area there was Nan Yue, Wu Yue, Min Yue land in the past.

I wandered when I dropped first in to PDF that: why they are very aggressive ? When this guys their ancestors in the past were conquered by Han Chinese ?

My answer is very simple, such boys try to show of themselves as best as possible that they are more Han than Han Chinese who living now in Middle land of China, to compensate or hidden their inferior mentality.

In fact I ignore the guy who open his mouth with full of bullshixt.

I´m tired of such discussion. Will this ever end?

Look, actually we should answer two basic questions: Who are the Chinese and who are the Han people?

Well, the first question is easily answered: all citizens within China border are Chinese. Agreed?
So Chinese people consist of the Han (92%) as majority and 55 other ethnic groups (8%).

Who are the ethnic groups:

The major minority ethnic groups are Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million),Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai(1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million),Kazakh (1.4 million), and Dai (1.2 million).

And who are the Han?

First, Han Chinese trace their ancestry back to the Huaxia people, who lived along the Huang He or Yellow River in northern China. But more than that. Han people are those who embrace common Han´s cultures and custom. They are NOT defined by blood line, e.i. they are mixed, consisting of different ethnic groups. Hakka is Han.

Second, and what are Han´s cultures and custom?

Basically, three components make up the Han: Ancestor worship, Confuciasm and Taoism. Han Chinese speak Mandarin and some dozen dialects. KirovAirship says he is Han, so he is. End of discussion. Imagine: you are an alien coming from Mars planet, if you adopt Han´s cultures and custom, you become Han. Clear?

We the Viets are the Han, too, as per this definition because most of us practice Ancestor worship, Confuciasm and Taoism. You can say we are Han Viet, and they are Han Chinese. At the beginning of the 19 century, even our Emperor Gia Long declared explicitly Vietnam as Middle Kingdom and his people as the Han.

I hope that is clear now we all can stop here. Last but not least, pls stop discussing on "blood line". Only NAZI cares of a such thing.

Han Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of ethnic groups in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Viet]

lol, this graph is bullsh1t, we don't carry that much of O1, and i don't look like a Viet at all.

agreed, indeed the Viets look more SE Asians than Northern Chinese.

 

[meis]

Go **** yourself Pro-Yue Viet Kinh Nationalists or whatever you call yourself. I am Han Chinese Cantonese and I have more Chinese blood than you all Pro-Yue Viet Kinh Nationalists all combined, you Kinh/Khmer/etc. There is about 1 million Chinese out of 90+ million in Vietnam, and they will be Kinh-nized/Viet-nized real soon.

Go read a book about EVOLUTION.

Debunked since 2005.
Why are southern Han considered "Hanized" natives? - Chinese Ethnic Groups and Peoples - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum

 

[Viet]

Go **** yourself Pro-Yue Viet Kinh Nationalists or whatever you call yourself. I am Han Chinese Cantonese and I have more Chinese blood than you all Pro-Yue Viet Kinh Nationalists all combined, you Kinh/Khmer/etc. There is about 1 million Chinese out of 90+ million in Vietnam, and they will be Kinh-nized/Viet-nized real soon.

Go read a book about EVOLUTION.

Debunked since 2005.
Why are southern Han considered "Hanized" natives? - Chinese Ethnic Groups and Peoples - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum

Pro-Yue Viet Kinh Nationalists? are you mad?

 

[meis]

Pro-Yue Viet Kinh Nationalists? are you mad?

I feel bad that the likes of you're mentally ill.

Vietnamese people are sinophobic racists, which is part of the core culture. Its not ''some'' vietnamese who make these claims, its the majority. A widespread problem indeed.

Step 1) They take a map of china during the zhou, qin, and han dynasties

Step2) They look at a 2012 map of china

Step3) They claim the warring states, zhou dynasty, qin dynasty, and han dynasty as ''northern'' empires that spoke ''mandarin'' (I don't think anybody knew mandarin at the time). Its because these dynasties and states were rooted in the central plains in north china, another example of vietnamese location logic with complete disregard of historical contexts.

Step4) They point to guangdong on the 2012 map and claim every cantonese to be tai-kadai (Baiyue), fujianese as minyue (austronesian), etc. Minyue and Nanyue existed in guangdong and fujian 2200 years ago and the modern day inhabitants in these regions must be their pure descendents. Vietnamese logic dictates that location determines who people are. Too bad the migrants just disappeared into thin air, if vietnamese nationalists can explain this houdini trick.

Step5) Since Mandarin speakers occupy northern china in large numbers, then they must be the same as the zhou, qin, han, and early huaxia. Its only a matter of convenience for the vietnamese. Same location = same people. China's civilization started in the north so the northerners must have conquered the southerners. Too bad the vietnamese forgot about steppe invasions in northern china and migrations south after the han dynasty. Its also sad that the vietnamese forgot about the old chinese language spoken by the zhou, qin, and han dynasties. They must have thought old chinese = proto mandarin, lol.

step6) Overall, Vietnamese people use a couple maps and draw erroneous conclusions based on faulty evidence and logic. This is what they mean when they say their claims are ''supported'' by history, because its not.

Step7) By making the yue claim, the vietnamese are in effect saying that Cantonese are tai-kadai zhuang people, fujianese are austronesian people, jiangnanese are hmong-mien people, and sichuanese are ba-shu people (an extension of their logic was used as an example on sichuan). Baiyue is a diverse group, just because a tribe is yue doesn't mean its automatically vietnamese. Vietnam = Lac viet (Long lac quan) + au viet (Au co).

Step8) They always talk about Han vs Yue. Funny....Han chinese is a modern ethnic concept. Baiyue is not a race, its a generic term for a diverse group of people. If Baiyue was one race, then zhuang, dai, miao, yao, li, maonan, vietnamese, etc....would go under a single panethnic label or a general umbrella. Han vs yue = comparing apples and bananas

Basically, the vietnamese jump to conclusions and make silly remarks based on ancient locations. Liu Bang wasn't a northerner. In fact, he came from chu, the southermost warring state. The zhou dynasty was a collection of tribes. Vietnamese don't know what han chinese is and generally, they are wrong about china. This type of historiography is unacceptable. There is nothing wrong with cantonese, fujianese, having yue blood. It doesn't make them less chinese as northerners have steppe and altaic genes too.

BTW, I've seen them using the term northern huaxia, lol. Huaxia were a confederation of tribes, but I don't think they spoke mandarin.