History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Snomannen]

Native NanYue people (cantonese) are call by Kinh people as "Ngô" people, because they said: "我" with sound: "ngộ" similier to sound "Ngô" in Vietnamese.

When Tang Dynasty ís collapsed in China, people escaped from North China to South, they called themselves as Tang_ren, such people were related to other minorities No_Hans, like Turks or Xiongnu descendant, they were Hakka or Hokkien peoples.
T

military.Turks in the Tang military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Yoke. Cantonese speak Old and Middle Chinese Mandarin, but Han Chinese whose were creators of original Mandarin language can not understand. What kind is funny story you're telling here ?




Taiwan is another story. From ancient time to around 1700 years AC, Taiwan was independent state.



Immigrants to Fujian were first from WuYue.




The paternal DNA of some cantonese (from fathers) is should be a same as North Hans because in ancient time, about 100,000 years ago, some of those humans began to leave Africa, with some people moving to China via South and Southeast Asia. There were Cantonese, MinYue, WuYue and Han people.

read more here. trinicenter.com - Ancient Chinese

You ignorant fool don't even know that there were several periods (such as during Qin Dynasty and the event of 衣冠南渡 after the period of the Three Kingdoms was over) of northern Han immigrated to the South of China extensively. Native people of NanYue are not Cantonese, they were the ancestors of Zhuang people and no body cares how you called/named them.

You idiot don't even know the ancestors of Northern Han and Southern Han were not all the same. Northern Han people are the posterity of Shatuo, Khitan, Xianbei, Huaxia (posterity of Han Dynasty [natives]) and other ancient Chinese ethnicity, yet Southern Han are the posterity of Baiyue and Northerners (Huaxia/ people immigrated to the south from time to time).

You people see how freaking ridiculous this guy's "True Han Theory" is. If ignorant people like him only considered the people of the Warrior States were "true Han", then I'm telling you, Han ethnicity is NOT even existed in this time and space; there is NO Han people in the world. Since the posterity of the Warrior States were either immigrated to the south or mixed with countless "non-natives" like Shatuo, Khitan and Xianbei. This "history creator" keep spreading nonsense like Cantonese should reclaim their "true identity" and only Northern Han is real Han. But the fact is only I, as a southern Han with Hakka background, have the right to claim myself a freaking "True Han". But I would never say something like that because it is freaking racist and stupid. Have you ever seen a English people claim that he is a "true English" and a German claim he is a "pure Aryan" nowadays?

Cantonese don't speak Old and Middle Chinese you illiteracy, go and read again what shea said. Nobody understand fully every single sound of Old and Middle Chinese nowadays, yet Cantonese language still keep more vocabularies and sound from them than Mandarin does you silly.
Once again you are acting like a monkey who knows nothing but dares to laugh at human's knowledge. Now who is a freaking joke.

保留較多古漢語用詞
粵語保留相當多的古詞古義，而且現代粵語仍然有較高使用單音詞的傾向。一些被粵語使用者視為通俗的字辭可在古籍中找到來源，而在官話中已經消失不再使用。

第一及第二人稱用「我」、「你」，與官話相同，但粵音「我」（ngo5）更保留了中古漢語唐音（*ngɑ̌ ）之疑母（ng-）。第三人稱不用「他」，而是繼承了東晉南朝的用法，跟吳語一樣使用「渠」，現代粵語寫作「佢」。複數人稱不用「們」，而是上溯至端係的 同源形式 [taʔ] 或 [ti]（現代粵語寫作「哋」，本字為「等」）。

粵語用「係」而不用「是」來代表正面答覆，「係」是明清小說中常用字，其粵音（hai）與日本人正面答覆時的單字發音（はい）基本相近。

在《詩經》、《尚書》等古經典作品中，不少用詞亦在現代粵語中慣常使用。例如，句未助詞「忌」（現代粵語寫為「嘅」字），在《詩經·國風·鄭風·大叔於 田》有「叔善射忌，又良禦忌」的表述； 陰騭（常被寫為陰質）語出《尚書》:「惟天陰騭下民」，指埋沒良心。在文言文和現代粵語中，「卒之、畀」都等同「終於、給予」的意義。古代常用的「文 錢」，粵語也保存了「文」的用法，但常被寫為「蚊」字。「尋日」（昨日）的「尋」可追溯至東晉陶淵明的《歸去來辭》「 尋程氏妹喪於武昌」中的「尋」，解作「不久前」。「幾時」（何時）、「幾多」（多少）可追溯至蘇軾的宋詞《水調歌頭》中的「明月幾時有？把酒問青天。」。 而在李煜的《虞美人》中有「問君能有幾多愁，恰似一江春水向東流。」。

粵語亦會借用古語作引伸，演化成新的意義。「牙煙」（正寫「崖廣」）原意為「懸崖邊的廣」（「廣」即是小屋，與簡化字無關)，後引伸為危險。

「走」字的本意為「奔跑」（兩腳交互向前迅速躍進），但在官話中已轉義為「步行」。粵語中，「行」就是步行，而「走」則保留了古漢語中「奔跑」的意思。又 如官話用「吃(喫)/喝」，粵語用更古老的「食/飲」（粵北也有用「喫」，或寫成「吔」），用法與《論語．學而》中「君子食無求飽」一致。動詞「來」，粵 語會用「蒞」（常寫作「嚟」），即「歡迎蒞臨」的「蒞臨」。

再如「打甂爐」（吃火鍋，常寫作「打邊爐」），「甂爐」為一種古炊具；日常炒菜用的半圓型炊器，古代稱為「釜」，粵語和客家話用「鑊」，官話用「鍋」，閩語用「鼎」。

粵語用「謦欬」代表聊天、閒談，是古漢語的用法，在《列子》《莊子》等古書都可找到例句。（「謦欬」因常被寫作「傾偈」，也有人認為是來自僧侶說教「講佛偈」。）

Cantonese "ngo5" (我/ I, me) is even closer than old Chinese "ngɑ̌" than Mandarin "Wǒ".

 

[Viet]

I know 90% what all these are about. The pariah of Han trying to discredit Han by rewriting history, LOL. What's new? Everyone in China knows that, they have big chip on their shoulders. Even Koreans claim Confucius was korean and they invented chinese script,
They may be able to fool people like Indians and others, but all East Asians know the historical truth. And there's no better person to rebut them than our graduate researcher @Wholegrain.

there is a problem with your comrade Wholegrain: he sees through a muslim-colored glass.

For example, he repeately condemns Vietnamese anihilation of ancient Champa. But he always
forgets to say the root cause: Champa had emerged as a terrorist state attacking not only Vietnam but Khmer land (Cambodia). Their radical ideology of Islam threatened the whole region, which was populated with people embracing Budhism and Confucism in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Siam and Burma.

Ancient Vietnam had no choice.

 

[Wholegrain]

Native NanYue people (cantonese) are call by Kinh people as "Ngô" people, because they said: "我" with sound: "ngộ" similier to sound "Ngô" in Vietnamese.

When Tang Dynasty ís collapsed in China, people escaped from North China to South, they called themselves as Tang_ren, such people were related to other minorities No_Hans, like Turks or Xiongnu descendant, they were Hakka or Hokkien peoples.
T

military.Turks in the Tang military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No moron, turkic peoples stayed in northern China after the Tang dynasty collapsed..

Shatuo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yoke. Cantonese speak Old and Middle Chinese Mandarin, but Han Chinese whose were creators of original Mandarin language can not understand. What kind is funny story you're telling here ?

Mandarin is a new dialect of Chinese that was created around the Song dynasty, from Middle Chinese, with major changes in sound and phonology. Cantonese is closer to Middle and Old Chinese than Mandarin.

Taiwan is another story. From ancient time to around 1700 years AC, Taiwan was independent state.



Immigrants to Fujian were first from WuYue.

Nope, they came from Henan in northern China, like Wang Shenzhi, who founded the Min Kingdom.

Wang Shenzhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The paternal DNA of some cantonese (from fathers) is should be a same as North Hans because in ancient time, about 100,000 years ago, some of those humans began to leave Africa, with some people moving to China via South and Southeast Asia. There were Cantonese, MinYue, WuYue and Han people.

read more here. trinicenter.com - Ancient Chinese

Dumb4ss, when the first Y haplogroup O originated in southeast asia, it wasn't divided into subclades. Y chromosome O people moved from southeast asia to northern China in prehistoric times, there was no difference between different people with Y chromosome O, it was the same. Then when ethnicity formed in historic times, Han chinese in northern China developed a subclade of Y chromosome O3 as their own unique marker, while Baiyue developed a subclade of Y chromosome O2 and O1 as their unique marker.

Then Han men carrying Y chromosome O3 moved to southern China in historic times (the migrations are recorded) and married the native baiyue women in southern China. This is why southern Han are O3 majority like northern Han, unlike Vietnamese who have large amount of O2.

 

[Wholegrain]

there is a problem with your comrade Wholegrain: he sees through a muslim-colored glass.

For example, he repeately condemns Vietnamese anihilation of ancient Champa. But he always
forgets to say the root cause: Champa had emerged as a terrorist state attacking not only Vietnam but Khmer land (Cambodia). Their radical ideology of Islam threatened the whole region, which was populated with people embracing Budhism and Confucism in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Siam and Burma.

Ancient Vietnam had no choice.

Vietnam attacked the Sultanate of Malacca/Melaka (the Malays), and besides attacking Malacca and Champa, Vietnam also attacked Lan Xang, Ava, Ryukyu, the Tais etc. Malacca and Champa were Muslim, Ava, Lan Xang and Tai were Buddhist, Ryukyu were Confucian, the only consistent thing I see was Vietnam attacking everyone.

Viet Nam: Borderless Histories - Google Books

Viet Nam: Borderless Histories - Google Books

Viet Nam: Borderless Histories - Google Books

Viet Nam: Borderless Histories - Google Books

Miscellaneous Papers Relating to Indo-China: Reprinted for the Straits ... - Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland. Straits Branch, Reinhold Rost - Google Books

Viet Nam: Borderless Histories - Google Books

Blood and Soil: Modern Genocide 1500-2000 - Ben Kiernan - Google Books

Blood and Soil: Modern Genocide 1500-2000 - Ben Kiernan - Google Books

Blood and Soil: Modern Genocide 1500-2000 - Ben Kiernan - Google Books

 

[Viet]

Vietnam attacked the Sultanate of Malacca/Melaka (the Malays), and besides attacking Malacca and Champa, Vietnam also attacked Lan Xang, Ava, Ryukyu, the Tais etc. Malacca and Champa were Muslim, Ava, Lan Xang and Tai were Buddhist, Ryukyu were Confucian, the only consistent thing I see was Vietnam attacking everyone.

We attacked Ryukyu? Any source? Don´t invent history, dude.

 

[Wholegrain]

We attacked Ryukyu? Any source? Don´t invent history, dude.

Dai Viet boasted that it "defeated" Ryukyu, after attacking a Ryukyuan ship.

Viet Nam: Borderless Histories - Google Books

Viet Nam: Borderless Histories - Google Books

 

[EastSea]

No moron, turkic peoples stayed in northern China after the Tang dynasty collapsed..

Shatuo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Mandarin is a new dialect of Chinese that was created around the Song dynasty, from Middle Chinese, with major changes in sound and phonology. Cantonese is closer to Middle and Old Chinese than Mandarin.



Nope, they came from Henan in northern China, like Wang Shenzhi, who founded the Min Kingdom.

Wang Shenzhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Dumb4ss, when the first Y haplogroup O originated in southeast asia, it wasn't divided into subclades. Y chromosome O people moved from southeast asia to northern China in prehistoric times, there was no difference between different people with Y chromosome O, it was the same. Then when ethnicity formed in historic times, Han chinese in northern China developed a subclade of Y chromosome O3 as their own unique marker, while Baiyue developed a subclade of Y chromosome O2 and O1 as their unique marker.

Then Han men carrying Y chromosome O3 moved to southern China in historic times (the migrations are recorded) and married the native baiyue women in southern China. This is why southern Han are O3 majority like northern Han, unlike Vietnamese who have large amount of O2.

Mandarin is a new dialect of Chinese that was created around the Song dynasty, from Middle Chinese, with major changes in sound and phonology. Cantonese is closer to Middle and Old Chinese than Mandarin.

Non stop telling a yoke ? Is was Madarin language newly created ? Its stranger ! then now Han Chinese in North don't understand what Cantonese are talking about.

When you don't understand each to other, You don't shared same language. Both of Mandarin language and Cantonese language (NanYue Language) in one family only.

The languages that are most spoken in the world today belong to the:

Indo-European family, which includes languages such asEnglish, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, and Hindi;

the Sino-Tibetan family, which includes Mandarin Chinese,Cantonese, and many others;

Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Han Chinese and Cantonese could shared DNA from paternal line or any, its should happen in early time when Han tribes and NanYue tribes was in going from East Africa, South Asia on road to reach to mainland of China.

Look again your photo here below, there is two types of Han Chinese grouped in two diagrams: Northern Han and Southern Han whose don't shared same DNA. (not overlapped).

 

[BeyondHeretic]

I know what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

 

[Skyline]

I have a little question, why Vietnam script is different from its neighboring countries?

 

[Snomannen]

Non stop telling a yoke ? Is was Madarin language newly created ? Its stranger ! then now Han Chinese in North don't understand what Cantonese are talking about.

When you don't understand each to other, You don't shared same language. Both of Mandarin language and Cantonese language (NanYue Language) in one family only.

Your ignorance makes every normal thing strange you stupid fool. Can English speaking people nowadays understand Old English? Can German speaking people understand old German? Mandarin as a "one-time northern Han Chinese dialect" was more infected by many ancient northern ethnctics, yet Cantonese keep more influence from old Han Chinese. Go read again #601.

and #592 as well.

Who told you that everyone in the world must follow this standard to define "language".

There are huge differences between different Japanese dialects and people are hardly understand each others:

私は方言を研究してはいるが、実際農村や漁村で使われている言葉は、聞いてもわからないものが多い。

but they still consider different Japanese dialects are "dialects 方言", not "languages"

日 本では、共通語と方言の違いが相当激しい。これがヨーロッパあたりへ行くと、スペイン語とポルトガル 語の違いは、青森県の言葉と福島県の言葉ぐらいの違い しかない。それでもれっきとした二つの国語である。ちょっと聞くとスペイン語とポルトガル語が話せ るなんていうのは、何か非常に偉いような気がする。しか し本当は、青森県の言葉と共通語が話せるということは、もっと違った言葉を使い分けることができ ることなのである。よく日本人は語学が下手だと言われる が、これは大間違いで、日本人のほうが語学の天才かもしれない。
-- 金田一春彦 (Japanese Linguist)

MR. 金田一 one of the most famous Japanese linguist seems don't wanna give a flying F to your S.

 

[EastSea]

I have a little question, why Vietnam script is different from its neighboring countries?

In ancient time, our script was similar to Sanskrit, I think so. but in time of domination of China Han Ji (Chinese writing Characters) was used until 19th century.

Around 1500 AC, Portugal Christian missionaries came to Vietnam, they applied Latin alphabet to writing our language Vietnamese. "Viet- Portugal- Latin Dictionary" was first Dictionary printed in Roma (Italy) 1651. From beginning of 20th century we changed our script to Latin Alphabet.

 

I know what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

I think, it's harmless, no kill, no make someone to be stronger.

 

[Snomannen]

I have a little question, why Vietnam script is different from its neighboring countries?

I think I can answer this one.

It is actually quite simple -they latinized their own language.

For me Vietnamese script is just like Chinese Pinyin, but they difference is, China used Pinyin as an aid for people to learn Chinese, yet Vietnam used Vietnamese alphabet as an official writing system.

Off topic:
Some people in the CCP was trying to latinized Mandarin as well, but luckily they have finally realized how wrong it could be if they really have done it.

 

[rott]

Your ignorance makes every normal thing strange you stupid fool. Can English speaking people nowadays understand Old English? Can German speaking people understand old German? Mandarin as a "one-time northern Han Chinese dialect" was more infected by many ancient northern ethnctics, yet Cantonese keep more influence from old Han Chinese.

I have a question. If Mandarin is a dialect and not a language then what is the Language? do we call "Chinese" as a language and Mandarin as a dialect?

 

[Snomannen]

I have a question. If Mandarin is a dialect and not a language then what is the Language? do we call "Chinese" as a language and Mandarin as a dialect?

I'm quite confused about this actually, since the English terms "language" and "dialect" are not completely suited to Chinese terms 語言 and 方言. Many people consider that the way to distinguish a different language is base on if people can communicate with each other by speaking with each other. However, base on this standard, most of the Chinese dialects will be considered as various different "languages". Nevertheless, as I have mentioned above, Chinese and Japanese still consider their "different languages" as "different dialects" even though people are sometimes hardy to understand each other.

I heard that there is a new better term to define "Chinese dialects 方言", but I can't remember what that is.

 

[nalan]

I have a question. If Mandarin is a dialect and not a language then what is the Language? do we call "Chinese" as a language and Mandarin as a dialect?

Mandarin is official standard language,else a dialect.its proved by history.you should know what han is.when you talk about chinese "language",it does not mean to be heard by ear.