HISTORY OF MALABAR :DISCUSSIONS.

[possumlot]

I came across some old picture of Sri Padmanabha Swamy Temple and since this temple played a big role in Kerala History its only fair that it gets mentioned in this thread.

This is an older picture of the temple made in 1850,

Nothing much changed till 1900 when this picture was taken,

However the joys of progress has reached the temple in recent times. Here is a recent picture.

This is the Temple where Billion $ worth of gold was dug up. I do not say found because it was already known that they gold was kept there. Since the gold was dedicated to god it was never touched. Here is the image of the door and gate that guarded that treasure. I would guess all those images says "do not enter".

One of the six vaults was guarded by this symbol of the snake which as considered a serious warning not to enter the room.

 

[abjktu]

That is not true, it was the eldest son in the Namboodri household who married into a kshatriya or Ambalavasi (tamil iyengar) family and only he had a permanent wife. The rest of the sons could only have a temporary alliance. Its a misconception that only Nairs had a matrilineal system. The rule was universal.

Kerala had no viashya class in the varna system, so to say they had Chatur varna is factually wrong. They only have Tri-Varna.

There was only Kshatriya, Brahmin and Shudra, which is why the term Shudra did not have a negative connotation in Kerala, unlike the rest of India. So there was no "shudra status" as you have condescendingly put.

The wife of the king would be a Nair women, the husband of his sister would be a Namboodri man. That is how balance was kept between the castes.

..,I only wanted to prove that Present Malayali populations are mixed...its you who said otherwise..And talked about the so called rigid caste society that was prevailed in Kerala...and intermixing was no possible like that...
Ambalavasis are Malayalis like varrier,maraar,pothuval etc, and some have distant tulu origins...they had nothing to do with Tamil speaking #%%%%@..

 

[possumlot]

..,I only wanted to prove that Present Malayali populations are mixed...its you who said otherwise..And talked about the so called rigid caste society that was prevailed in Kerala...and intermixing was no possible like that...
Ambalavasis are Malayalis like varrier,maraar,pothuval etc, and some have distant tulu origins...they had nothing to do with Tamil speaking #%%%%@..

I said massive intermingling was unlikely due to the social structure. For most parts Nair's had sambandham only with Nair households. The poorer nair houses had sambandham with ezhava households. Some had sambandhamm with namboodri household. Same was true for other castes as well. When sambandham ended around 200 years back and marriages became common there was minimal intermingling.

Intermingling would have been possible for those outside the caste system like tribals or people of other religion.

 

[abjktu]

I said massive intermingling was unlikely due to the social structure. For most parts Nair's had sambandham only with Nair households. The poorer nair houses had sambandham with ezhava households. Some had sambandhamm with namboodri household. Same was true for other castes as well. When sambandham ended around 200 years back and marriages became common there was minimal intermingling.

Intermingling would have been possible for those outside the caste system like tribals or people of other religion.

200 years???..Nope.......Sambhandham was prevailed upto the first quarter of the 20 th century..
... Namboothiri Yogakshema Mahaasabha, a revolutionary group of Namboothiris and founded in 1908, took a decision in 1919 and agitated for marriage of all Namboothiris within the community. Sabha declared the marriages of younger brothers from within the community as official, irrespective of whether the elder brothers were married or not. This revolutionary meeting was held in "Bharatheebhooshanam" at Thrissur on 25th Medam 1094 (1919 A.D.). The aim was embodied in the Madras Namboothiri Act of 1933. In the same year, the Madras Marumakkathaayam Act was passed, by which Sambandham was considered as a regular marriage, conferring on the children the same
rights of inheritance and property as held by children whose parents were both Namboothiris. The declaration and these Acts led to a sudden decline in the number of
Sambandham marriages, and this unethical practice ended shortly (in about ten years). Following these acts, Namboothiri land was
increasingly partitioned and property
dispersed.......

 

[possumlot]

200 years???..Nope.......Sambhandham was prevailed upto the first quarter of the 20 th century..
... Namboothiri Yogakshema Mahaasabha, a revolutionary group of Namboothiris and founded in 1908, took a decision in 1919 and agitated for marriage of all Namboothiris within the community. Sabha declared the marriages of younger brothers from within the community as official, irrespective of whether the elder brothers were married or not. This revolutionary meeting was held in "Bharatheebhooshanam" at Thrissur on 25th Medam 1094 (1919 A.D.). The aim was embodied in the Madras Namboothiri Act of 1933. In the same year, the Madras Marumakkathaayam Act was passed, by which Sambandham was considered as a regular marriage, conferring on the children the same
rights of inheritance and property as held by children whose parents were both Namboothiris. The declaration and these Acts led to a sudden decline in the number of
Sambandham marriages, and this unethical practice ended shortly (in about ten years). Following these acts, Namboothiri land was
increasingly partitioned and property
dispersed.......

Nair Regulation Act passed in 1924 made Nair marriages legal. But even before passing the law, Sambhandam was in decline due to the laws that forbid martial arts training to malayalees. There was nothing UNETHICAL about this system. No men inherited the property, its the women of the household who inherited all the property. The men were required to go out and earn wealth.

None of the marriages were forced either. The Women had equal say in any marriage or sambhandam.

 

[HeinzG]

It wasn't me. May be @HeinzG or @Saradiel.

I think it was me or @Saradiel but didn't seen him for a long time.

 

[kurup]

I think it was me or @Saradiel but didn't seen him for a long time.

Ok ....good ..... Can you give the link to that article .

 

[HeinzG]

Ok ....good ..... Can you give the link to that article .

can't mate... I have forgotten

 

[DarkSeid]

I think it was me or @Saradiel but didn't seen him for a long time.

He was here today and yesterday.
Anti Hindi storm brewing in Tamilnadu | Page 27

 

[temporary handle]

Chatur varna system is part of Hinduism so its absurd to say it was "introduced" by brahmins. Since kerala is mentioned even in 400 BC or before in Hindu religious text like the Aitareya Aranyaka it is clear that it was a Hindu land. So we can expect some sort of Varna system to be prevalent there.

Besides "class" is anyway as old as human history.

The very fact that in kerala the Chatur varna underwent further split into very many varnas and classes shows that the varna's were very much entrenched long before recorded history.

One thing about four fold caste system is that it is not limited to India. Four fold stratification is existent in Persia and was existent in whole of Eastern Europe until Lenin-Stalin washed it with blood.

 

[possumlot]

Here is something that will be of Interest to Malayalees and rather distressing to Pakistanis

Haplogroup L-M20

Haplogroup L-M20 is associated with South Asia. It has also been found at low frequencies among populations of Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Southern Europe along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. It is a descendant haplogroup of haplogroup K-M9, and is believed to have first appeared approximately 25000 - 30,000 years ago.

Check out U2B and M25

One thing about four fold caste system is that it is not limited to India. Four fold stratification is existent in Persia and was existent in whole of Eastern Europe until Lenin-Stalin washed it with blood.

Caste system existed almost everywhere in the world. Only in India did the local Hindu population use it for self flagellation egged on by the muslims and the xtians.

 

[temporary handle]

Here is something that will be of Interest to Malayalees and rather distressing to Pakistanis

Haplogroup L-M20

View attachment 53301

Haplogroup L-M20 is associated with South Asia. It has also been found at low frequencies among populations of Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Southern Europe along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. It is a descendant haplogroup of haplogroup K-M9, and is believed to have first appeared approximately 25000 - 30,000 years ago.



Caste system existed almost everywhere in the world. Only in India did the local population use it for self flagellation egged on by the muslims and the xtians.

Since i cannot post links, you could google 'gentry' and follow the Wikipedia link.


These are examples of cast system around the world.

Indo-Iranian – Brahmin/Athravan, Kshatriyas/Rathaestar, Vaishyas
Roman – Flamines, Milites, Quirites
Celtic – Druids, Equites, Plebes (according to Julius Caesar)
Anglo-Saxon – Gebedmen (prayer-men), Fyrdmen (army-men), Weorcmen (workmen) (according to Alfred the Great)
Slavic – Volkhvs, Voin, Krestyanin/Smerd
Nordic – Earl, Churl, Thrall (according to the Lay of Rig)
Greece (Attica) – Eupatridae, Geomori, Demiurgi
Greece (Sparta) – Homoioi, Perioeci, Helots

 

[SrNair]

One thing about four fold caste system is that it is not limited to India. Four fold stratification is existent in Persia and was existent in whole of Eastern Europe until Lenin-Stalin washed it with blood.

4 types caste system was also existed in Russia.I still remember that a Russian member in here mentioned that.

Here is something that will be of Interest to Malayalees and rather distressing to Pakistanis

Haplogroup L-M20

View attachment 53301

Haplogroup L-M20 is associated with South Asia. It has also been found at low frequencies among populations of Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Southern Europe along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. It is a descendant haplogroup of haplogroup K-M9, and is believed to have first appeared approximately 25000 - 30,000 years ago.

Check out U2B and M25

Caste system existed almost everywhere in the world. Only in India did the local population use it for self flagellation egged on by the muslims and the xtians.

I cant understand.What does that haplogroup mean?
How cant make it a distress among Pakistanis?
@possumlot.

I came across some old picture of Sri Padmanabha Swamy Temple and since this temple played a big role in Kerala History its only fair that it gets mentioned in this thread.

This is an older picture of the temple made in 1850,

Nothing much changed till 1900 when this picture was taken,

However the joys of progress has reached the temple in recent times. Here is a recent picture.

This is the Temple where Billion $ worth of gold was dug up. I do not say found because it was already known that they gold was kept there. Since the gold was dedicated to god it was never touched. Here is the image of the door and gate that guarded that treasure. I would guess all those images says "do not enter".

One of the six vaults was guarded by this symbol of the snake which as considered a serious warning not to enter the room.

A symbol of our tradition and culture.

 

[temporary handle]

4 types caste system was also existed in Russia.I still remember that a Russian member in here mentioned that.

Yes.

And Ukraine, and Belarus, Latvia, Lituania and pretty much of whole of Salvic world.

In western Europe, it merged into feudalism and existed in form of Barons, Knights, and Serfs ( who were slaves of landed aristocracy and tied to land ).

The root word for noble born is Ari in all Indo-European cultures signifying the antiquity of caste system.

 

[abjktu]

Ok ....good ..... Can you give the link to that article .

Looks like kurup is hell bent to prove his Ceylonese ancestry???...