HISTORY OF MALABAR :DISCUSSIONS.

[Kabira]

That is right.
A keralite can almost easily identify another keralite.We are intermixed but except cases like SC/ST and tribals .All others are look like almost same.But we are somehow considerably different than other South Indians.

As i said there maybe differences, only possible to find out if samples data become public. But they should still cluster closer to where they live.

 

[possumlot]

I didnt say there is no poors from Nairs .Where did I say that?
What is in you head ?peanut? How can you conclude like that ?Got some sixth sense
Idiot.
Namboodiris and Influential high caste people .Not all of them .But some of them indeed did a a lot of nasty job .
I know a lot of such history happened in our area .Old people ,reputed people ,neither Communist nor RSS told me that .
You cant intentionally hide something like that under carpet .May be you can do that .Only you, Not others.
There is an old guy in our area who is regularly mocked by people as 'Pulayan Tamburan' both his own caste and high caste.Because his father was a Brahmin, a cruel landlord and mother was a dalit lady who worked in that landlord property.

You said those Ezhavas example were exceptions and there were poor families too which meant that the stories of atrocities were true.

The corollary being there were no poor families in Nairs and they were not abused, since you squarely blame the nairs and namboodris for abuse.

Why are you chickening out of your own argument ? We can all see who that peanut brain is.

"Old people" in my area told me that dalits went around raping and abusing upper caste ......So which "old people" is right ?

Your Pulayan Tamburan seems like a bastard child and hence he being mocked. It had nothing to do with caste. LOL. If a brahmin had married a dalit no one would mock their child. ......... your argument is self defeating.

 

[SrNair]

You said those Ezhavas example were exceptions and there were poor families too which meant that the stories of atrocities were true.

The corollary being there were no poor families in Nairs and they were not abused, since you squarely blame the nairs and namboodris for abuse.

Why are you chickening out of your own argument ? We can all see who that peanut brain is.

"Old people" in my area told me that dalits went around raping and abusing upper caste ......So which "old people" is right ?

Your Pulayan Tamburan seems like a bastard child and hence he being mocked. It had nothing to do with caste. LOL. If a brahmin had married a dalit no one would mock their child. ......... your argument is self defeating.

I am not talking about present situation.
Something like that was rampant during British time and also earlier period .Whole Keralites knows that very well.
I am a Nair .But truth is truth.During royal rule some of the heavily influentialupper caste did a lot against poor lower caste people.Communism grown in Kerala soil because of that atrocities.I am not a communist and I hate them.
May be you know very well how the Anizham Thirunal Marthanda Varma secure his throne by defeating 'Ettuveetil Pillaamar' ,a gang of Nair Kingmakers.

I dont generalize them.But some of them are indeed cruel.
Other Brahmins are not like that,but that brahmin was cruel ,
his henchmens also killed a lot of people.

Tell me what these so called dalit atrocities against upper caste?What is your story about that?

 

[possumlot]

I am not talking about present situation.
Something like that was rampant during British time and also earlier period .Whole Keralites knows that very well.
I am a Nair .But truth is truth.During royal rule some of the heavily influentialupper caste did a lot against poor lower caste people.Communism grown in Kerala soil because of that atrocities.I am not a communist and I hate them.
May be you know very well how the Anizham Thirunal Marthanda Varma secure his throne by defeating 'Ettuveetil Pillaamar' ,a gang of Nair Kingmakers.

I dont generalize them.But some of them are indeed cruel.
Other Brahmins are not like that,but that brahmin was cruel ,
his henchmens also killed a lot of people.

Tell me what these so called dalit atrocities against upper caste?What is your story about that?

Kerala was a Feudal society and like all Feudal societies there was strong class differentiations.

What do you know about Marthanda Varma ? His story about Etuveetil pillaamar are just legend and folklores.

The real story is something totally different. It origins of that lay in the control of the spice trade. Those days the spice trade was controlled by two dominant groups. The Dutch and the British.

The dutch had a factor at Thenga Pattinam (kanyakumari) and the Britsh had a base at Vizhinjam

Below is image of the Dutch factory,

All negotiations for trade and protection used to happen with the immediate fudal Pillais lords who was granted authority to deal with the traders. However due t trade disputes related to monopoly the Pillai's attacked, destroyed the factor and executed the factory in charge in 1684. The dutch then moved for compensation from the Umayamma Rani of Venad who was the queen but this was opposed by the feudal Pillais since the dutch were are fault.

Seeing this, the british decided to build a fort at Vizhinjam factory to make their position stronger. But the Feudal Pillai saw through their plan and opposed that too.

However the British started building the fort without permission. This alarmed the Rani who asked them to stop further constructions but the British refused to do so. This is the image of the Anchuthengu fort which the british had started building.

Among the feudal Pillais there was enemity between the Vanchimuttom Pillai and Kodumon Pillai who were the two strongest feudal lords of that time. Kodumon Pillai attacked the british fort to destroy but Vanchimuttom Pillai secretly helped the british build the fort. The attack was unsuccessful since the British had already installed cannons and guns in the fort by then.

Later when the Rani died in 1690 the british used this opportunity to complete the fort. The british then started strengthening their position in Anchuthengu. The image below shows the view of the fort in those days.

Once this was complete the British had total command over the trade and they could decide the prices in their favour and also destroy competition. This forced the muslim traders of that time to become pirates. The only group who could handle the british then were the Dutch so the british cleverly started giving information about the dutch ships to the pirates to destroy the competition. They refused to pay taxes to the Kerala king by then.

The british then became more arrogant and took of the land of the Devi temple and started insulting and humiliating the Hindus. This build up resentments and resulted in Kodumon Pillai attacking the fort again, this time he burnt the british ships and laid siege to the fort. But reinforcement from Mumbai saved the british again.

After this Kodumon Pillai made peace with Vanchimuttom Pillai after installing a new Rani in Attingal.

Seeing this united front, the british under Gilford decided to play it smart and started negotiating with the queen and offered to pay the tax arrears. However by then the anger of the local population against the british were already sky high. After the negotiations, the british were invited to a party on 11 April 1721 and when they arrived the Nair Pada and the Muslims joined forces and killed ALL 150 members of the british contingent.

However the Ancuthengu fort still could not be taken since it had cannons.

Image of one of the Ettuveetil Pillaamar,

This was the background to the story when Travancore king Rama Varma decided to use the antagonism for his own gain and to install his sister as the queen of Attingal. He was very friendly with the british and had already adopted a prince and a princess from Kolathunadu, at the behest of Adams (who was the head of the british contingent in kerala) and one of them was crowned the prince of (Marthanda Varma) of Travancore. He also gave british permission to build a fort at Colachel and mint coins for Travancore in 1723.

Rama Varma's nephew Prince of Neyyattinkara then attacked Attingal with the help of Naiks of Madurai whom he hired and the british. Fifteen of the leading Pillais in Attingal were executed and the remaining surrendered.

Karthika Thirunal, a princess and relative or Rama Verma, was made the queen of Attingal. Later when Marthanda Verma become king he captured all the remaining surviving Pillais of Attingal and handed them over to the British

This is the real story of Ettuveetil Pillaamar and the king of Travancore. Not the fantasy you have been fed as "history".

 

[abjktu]

..............How was the Caste System introduced in Kerala?

Kerala, during the Tamil Sangam Age (1-500 AD) was a very egalitarian society. Untouchability wasunknown, manual labour was respected and women held in high esteem. After the defeat of the Cheras by Cholas,
Buddhism declined and Brahmins introduced the Chatur-Varna caste-system. Behind this apalling caste system they introduced, lay a brilliant strategy aimed at usurping power using religion as a tool. Here is how it was implemented -
Arrival- c.800 AD: The first Brahmin
missionaries moved into Kerala through Tulu-naadu (Mangalore area). At that point in time, Kerala was a flourishing center for Buddhism and Jainism.

Establishing Credentials: Buddhist/Jain scholars were defeated in public debates and then local kings converted. This led to a more systematic settlement of 64 gramoms
and Illoms across Kerala .

Royal Patronage- c. 1100 AD : After being crushed by the Cholas, the recuperating Chera-Nair chieftains were `promoted` as Kshatriyas . This assured the Brahmins of
their socio-political status while the `new` Kshatriyas gained religious sanction of the new Vedic gods. This was the beginning of a long, mutually gratifying relationship. But
the `new` Kshatriyas, unlike their northern counterparts, continued to follow the Matrilineal system, worship Kaavu- Bhagawati , and at the same time, promote construction of new temples to the Vedic gods.

Re-creating Myths : An old Chera lore (of a king Velkezu Kuttavan, who flings his spear to claim land from the sea) was conveniently appropriated for Parashurama,
a Puranic character symbolizing aggressive Brahmanism, who uses his Parashu (Axe), to `create` new land for the settlers. In another myth, a legendary king, Mahabali (Maveli) is symbolically crushed by a midget
Brahmin (Vamana - yet another assimilative avatar of Vishnu).


Old gods, new bottles : Old icons like
Sastha (Buddha) were blended with folk heroes like Ayyappa (King Ayyan Adigal). The new god was then called Hariharasuta (son of Vishnu & Shiva); Murugan became identical with Subramonya/Kartikeya; Madura Meenakshi with Parvati.


Exclusivity : To prevent dilution of their powers, the Namboothiris called themselves Swadeshi and differentiated newer Brahmin
migrants (Embranthiri, Pattar, Potti) and branded them Paradeshi (foreigners).

Primogeniture : Only the eldest son was allowed to marry a Namboothiri lady and inherit land. Younger sons entered into Sambandhams (Relationship) with Nair women of matrilineal Tharavads . Unmarried
Namboothiri women were forced to remain spinsters and lead secluded lives.


Central Authority : While the Namboothiris gave themselves the power to punish and kill ( Kollum-kolayum ), only the head of one
Illom in Kerala had the power to punish Namboothiris.


Monopoly on Education : A strong control over institutions of learning ensured that mobility and communication was restricted.
Semi-historical works like Keralolpathi helped in projecting a Brahmin-centric view of the past.


Pollution Laws : The laws of pollution laid down that an `untouchable` should not come anywhere near the Namboothiri at all; should keep 24 feet away from the Nair; 12 feet away from the Ezhava!!
This absurd social structure and ostracism lasted for more than 500 years. The system ensured the rapid rise of Namboothiris as a powerful landed aristocracy. In places like
Chambakaserry and Edapally, the Namboothiris became kings themselves. Thanks to them,
Buddhism & Jainism was completely wiped out from Kerala; Later, Christianity and Islam became very popular; and Malayalam emerged
as a sanskritized cousin of Tamil.

But today, it does not take a discerning anthropologist to notice that for all the barriers they created, the `Aryan` Namboothiris look no different from the rest of the people of Kerala. It is also a tribute to the community that the greatest, assimilative social reform movement in recent Kerala history was led by a Namboothiri Brahmin.........

 

[SrNair]

Kerala was a Feudal society and like all Feudal societies there was strong class differentiations.

What do you know about Marthanda Varma ? His story about Etuveetil pillaamar are just legend and folklores.

The real story is something totally different. It origins of that lay in the control of the spice trade. Those days the spice trade was controlled by two dominant groups. The Dutch and the British.

The dutch had a factor at Thenga Pattinam (kanyakumari) and the Britsh had a base at Vizhinjam

Below is image of the Dutch factory,

All negotiations for trade and protection used to happen with the immediate fudal Pillais lords who was granted authority to deal with the traders. However due t trade disputes related to monopoly the Pillai's attacked, destroyed the factor and executed the factory in charge in 1684. The dutch then moved for compensation from the Umayamma Rani of Venad who was the queen but this was opposed by the feudal Pillais since the dutch were are fault.

Seeing this, the british decided to build a fort at Vizhinjam factory to make their position stronger. But the Feudal Pillai saw through their plan and opposed that too.

However the British started building the fort without permission. This alarmed the Rani who asked them to stop further constructions but the British refused to do so. This is the image of the Anchuthengu fort which the british had started building.

Among the feudal Pillais there was enemity between the Vanchimuttom Pillai and Kodumon Pillai who were the two strongest feudal lords of that time. Kodumon Pillai attacked the british fort to destroy but Vanchimuttom Pillai secretly helped the british build the fort. The attack was unsuccessful since the British had already installed cannons and guns in the fort by then.

Later when the Rani died in 1690 the british used this opportunity to complete the fort. The british then started strengthening their position in Anchuthengu. The image below shows the view of the fort in those days.

Once this was complete the British had total command over the trade and they could decide the prices in their favour and also destroy competition. This forced the muslim traders of that time to become pirates. The only group who could handle the british then were the Dutch so the british cleverly started giving information about the dutch ships to the pirates to destroy the competition. They refused to pay taxes to the Kerala king by then.

The british then became more arrogant and took of the land of the Devi temple and started insulting and humiliating the Hindus. This build up resentments and resulted in Kodumon Pillai attacking the fort again, this time he burnt the british ships and laid siege to the fort. But reinforcement from Mumbai saved the british again.

After this Kodumon Pillai made peace with Vanchimuttom Pillai after installing a new Rani in Attingal.

Seeing this united front, the british under Gilford decided to play it smart and started negotiating with the queen and offered to pay the tax arrears. However by then the anger of the local population against the british were already sky high. After the negotiations, the british were invited to a party on 11 April 1721 and when they arrived the Nair Pada and the Muslims joined forces and killed ALL 150 members of the british contingent.

However the Ancuthengu fort still could not be taken since it had cannons.

Image of one of the Ettuveetil Pillaamar,

This was the background to the story when Travancore king Rama Varma decided to use the antagonism for his own gain and to install his sister as the queen of Attingal. He was very friendly with the british and had already adopted a prince and a princess from Kolathunadu, at the behest of Adams (who was the head of the british contingent in kerala) and one of them was crowned the prince of (Marthanda Varma) of Travancore. He also gave british permission to build a fort at Colachel and mint coins for Travancore in 1723.

Rama Varma's nephew Prince of Neyyattinkara then attacked Attingal with the help of Naiks of Madurai whom he hired and the british. Fifteen of the leading Pillais in Attingal were executed and the remaining surrendered.

Karthika Thirunal, a princess and relative or Rama Verma, was made the queen of Attingal. Later when Marthanda Verma become king he captured all the remaining surviving Pillais of Attingal and handed them over to the British

This is the real story of Ettuveetil Pillaamar and the king of Travancore. Not the fantasy you have been fed as "history".

Then again Ettuveetil pillas was strongest that could even challenge King.That was the point I am talking to.
Several other fuedal landlords was also in kerala some of them are good ,some others are cruel.

 

[possumlot]

..............How was the Caste System introduced in Kerala?

Kerala, during the Tamil Sangam Age (1-500 AD) was a very egalitarian society. Untouchability wasunknown, manual labour was respected and women held in high esteem. After the defeat of the Cheras by Cholas,
Buddhism declined and Brahmins introduced the Chatur-Varna caste-system. Behind this apalling caste system they introduced, lay a brilliant strategy aimed at usurping power using religion as a tool. Here is how it was implemented -
Arrival- c.800 AD: The first Brahmin
missionaries moved into Kerala through Tulu-naadu (Mangalore area). At that point in time, Kerala was a flourishing center for Buddhism and Jainism.

Establishing Credentials: Buddhist/Jain scholars were defeated in public debates and then local kings converted. This led to a more systematic settlement of 64 gramoms
and Illoms across Kerala .

Royal Patronage- c. 1100 AD : After being crushed by the Cholas, the recuperating Chera-Nair chieftains were `promoted` as Kshatriyas . This assured the Brahmins of
their socio-political status while the `new` Kshatriyas gained religious sanction of the new Vedic gods. This was the beginning of a long, mutually gratifying relationship. But
the `new` Kshatriyas, unlike their northern counterparts, continued to follow the Matrilineal system, worship Kaavu- Bhagawati , and at the same time, promote construction of new temples to the Vedic gods.

Re-creating Myths : An old Chera lore (of a king Velkezu Kuttavan, who flings his spear to claim land from the sea) was conveniently appropriated for Parashurama,
a Puranic character symbolizing aggressive Brahmanism, who uses his Parashu (Axe), to `create` new land for the settlers. In another myth, a legendary king, Mahabali (Maveli) is symbolically crushed by a midget
Brahmin (Vamana - yet another assimilative avatar of Vishnu).


Old gods, new bottles : Old icons like
Sastha (Buddha) were blended with folk heroes like Ayyappa (King Ayyan Adigal). The new god was then called Hariharasuta (son of Vishnu & Shiva); Murugan became identical with Subramonya/Kartikeya; Madura Meenakshi with Parvati.


Exclusivity : To prevent dilution of their powers, the Namboothiris called themselves Swadeshi and differentiated newer Brahmin
migrants (Embranthiri, Pattar, Potti) and branded them Paradeshi (foreigners).

Primogeniture : Only the eldest son was allowed to marry a Namboothiri lady and inherit land. Younger sons entered into Sambandhams (Relationship) with Nair women of matrilineal Tharavads . Unmarried
Namboothiri women were forced to remain spinsters and lead secluded lives.


Central Authority : While the Namboothiris gave themselves the power to punish and kill ( Kollum-kolayum ), only the head of one
Illom in Kerala had the power to punish Namboothiris.


Monopoly on Education : A strong control over institutions of learning ensured that mobility and communication was restricted.
Semi-historical works like Keralolpathi helped in projecting a Brahmin-centric view of the past.


Pollution Laws : The laws of pollution laid down that an `untouchable` should not come anywhere near the Namboothiri at all; should keep 24 feet away from the Nair; 12 feet away from the Ezhava!!
This absurd social structure and ostracism lasted for more than 500 years. The system ensured the rapid rise of Namboothiris as a powerful landed aristocracy. In places like
Chambakaserry and Edapally, the Namboothiris became kings themselves. Thanks to them,
Buddhism & Jainism was completely wiped out from Kerala; Later, Christianity and Islam became very popular; and Malayalam emerged
as a sanskritized cousin of Tamil.

But today, it does not take a discerning anthropologist to notice that for all the barriers they created, the `Aryan` Namboothiris look no different from the rest of the people of Kerala. It is also a tribute to the community that the greatest, assimilative social reform movement in recent Kerala history was led by a Namboothiri Brahmin.........

There is multiple mistakes in your narrative.

1. Buddhism was an offshoot philosophy of Hinduism and followed the same methodology for conversion which is debate based on nyaya. Conversion and reconversion was based on this debate which paved way for enlightenment.

2. Chera Chola battle had nothing to do with this as Chola themselves were Hindus who briefly became buddhists and again became Hindu around 400 AD

3. Chatur-Varna caste-system existed as part of the social order in those days. It was a classification based on roles and duties.

4. No one was "promoted' as Kshatriyas . The one who did the duties of the Kshatriyas was recognized as a Kshatriyas. i.e. one who defends the law, protects the weak etc.

5. Matrilineal system was a product of the time where the need was for the men folks not to be attached to their household but to be prepared for die for the kingdome. This was explained in my earlier posts too.

6. There are no records of Velkezu Kuttavan, its only hearsay.

7. Namboothiris were granted jurisdiction by the edict of the king since they were the Judges in those days. Their ruling was just as fair and unfair as the ruling of the Sharia or any other religious-judicial body of those ages. Its silly to measure them by today's standards.

8. Even TODAY we cannot approach a judge without his permission. Not even his residence. Even lawyers cannot approach a judge or go near him or go into his room without his permission. How is this any different from the 32 feet rule for approaching a Namboodri ? Even today you cannot enter a army cantonment without persmisison or approach near a army general or any officer without permission. How is this any different for the 24 feet and 12 feet rule for Nair's and Ezhavas ?

9. In any Feudal society or a society at war, there are strict rules about approaching any higher officials due to danger of assassination.

10. Buddhism and Jainism was wiped out from pretty much all of India, pakistan and Bangladesh. This was no strategic plan, just the way the events went.

 

[abjktu]

There is multiple mistakes in your narrative.

1. Buddhism was an offshoot philosophy of Hinduism and followed the same methodology for conversion which is debate based on nyaya. Conversion and reconversion was based on this debate which paved way for enlightenment.

2. Chera Chola battle had nothing to do with this as Chola themselves were Hindus who briefly became buddhists and again became Hindu around 400 AD

3. Chatur-Varna caste-system existed as part of the social order in those days. It was a classification based on roles and duties.

4. No one was "promoted' as Kshatriyas . The one who did the duties of the Kshatriyas was recognized as a Kshatriyas. i.e. one who defends the law, protects the weak etc.

5. Matrilineal system was a product of the time where the need was for the men folks not to be attached to their household but to be prepared for die for the kingdome. This was explained in my earlier posts too.

6. There are no records of Velkezu Kuttavan, its only hearsay.

7. Namboothiris were granted jurisdiction by the edict of the king since they were the Judges in those days. Their ruling was just as fair and unfair as the ruling of the Sharia or any other religious-judicial body of those ages. Its silly to measure them by today's standards.

8. Even TODAY we cannot approach a judge without his permission. Not even his residence. Even lawyers cannot approach a judge or go near him or go into his room without his permission. How is this any different from the 32 feet rule for approaching a Namboodri ? Even today you cannot enter a army cantonment without persmisison or approach near a army general or any officer without permission. How is this any different for the 24 feet and 12 feet rule for Nair's and Ezhavas ?

9. In any Feudal society or a society at war, there are strict rules about approaching any higher officials due to danger of assassination.

10. Buddhism and Jainism was wiped out from pretty much all of India, pakistan and Bangladesh. This was no strategic plan, just the way the events went.

Chatur varna system was introduced only after the Brahmin. Caste system was not prevalent in Kerala during initial of history. Sri.Elamkulam Kunjan Pillai had recorded that in olden times when
people lived in the Western Ghats,
categorization on the basis of work done by them was in practice. There were seven such categories. Thudiyan (one who beats “thudi”, a
musical instrument), Parayan (one who beats para”, a kind of drum), Panar (singer), Kadambar (agriculturist), Valayar (fishermen),
Vanikar (traders) and Uzhavar (workers) are these seven categories.
Though Brahmin migration to Kerala took place during three or four centuries B.C., they became powerful only during eighth century.
Caste system began in Kerala only after this period .....

During the Chera-Chola War of the eleventh century/the patrilinear system of inheritance(Makkathayam) disintegrated and was replaced
by Marumakkathayam (matrilineal system). The introduction of compulsory military training of
males and their prolonged absence from home during the long period of Chola invasion is said to be the main reason for the rise of Marumakkathayam .

 

[possumlot]

Chatur varna system was introduced only after the Brahmin. Caste system was not prevalent in Kerala during initial of history. Sri.Elamkulam Kunjan Pillai had recorded that in olden times when
people lived in the Western Ghats,
categorization on the basis of work done by them was in practice. There were seven such categories. Thudiyan (one who beats “thudi”, a
musical instrument), Parayan (one who beats para”, a kind of drum), Panar (singer), Kadambar (agriculturist), Valayar (fishermen),
Vanikar (traders) and Uzhavar (workers) are these seven categories.
Though Brahmin migration to Kerala took place during three or four centuries B.C., they became powerful only during eighth century.
Caste system began in Kerala only after this period .....

Chatur varna system is part of Hinduism so its absurd to say it was "introduced" by brahmins. Since kerala is mentioned even in 400 BC or before in Hindu religious text like the Aitareya Aranyaka it is clear that it was a Hindu land. So we can expect some sort of Varna system to be prevalent there.

Besides "class" is anyway as old as human history.

The very fact that in kerala the Chatur varna underwent further split into very many varnas and classes shows that the varna's were very much entrenched long before recorded history.

 

[abjktu]

May be that story was myth but Velkezhu is not a mythological character...This from Wikipedia... Vel Kelu Kuttuvan , more frequently referred to as Kadal Pirakottiya Senguttuvan Chera (Tamil: சேரன் செங்குட்டுவன், Chēran Chenkūttūvan ), was the ruler of the Chera Kingdom in the Sangam Period .
Vel Kelu Kuttuvan ascended the Chera throne after the death of his father Nedum Cheralathan . He successfully intervened in a
civil war in the Chola Kingdom and established his relative Killi on the Chola throne. The land and naval expeditions against the Kadamba-"Yavana" allied forces were also
successful. He is also said to have defeated the Kongu people. Under his reign, the Chera.kingdom extended from Kollimalai in the east
to Tondi and Mantai in the western coast.
Vel Kelu Kuttuvan is famous for the legends surrounding Kannagi , the heroine of the legendary Tamil epic Silapathikaram . According
to the legends, Ilango Adigal, the Jain author of Silapathikaram was his younger brother. Vel Kelu Kuttuvan was born to Nedum Cheralathan
and Nalchonai- the daughter of a Chola king Manikilli.....

Chatur varna system is part of Hinduism so its absurd to say it was "introduced" by brahmins. Since kerala is mentioned even in 400 BC or before in Hindu religious text like the Aitareya Aranyaka it is clear that it was a Hindu land. So we can expect some sort of Varna system to be prevalent there.

Besides "class" is anyway as old as human history.

The very fact that in kerala the Chatur varna underwent further split into very many varnas and classes shows that the varna's were very much entrenched long before recorded history.

yes may be in aryanized hinduism.. Society before the Aryanization of Kerala
Until the fifth century AD the people of Kerala had no organized religion. A few followed Buddhist practices, but the majority followed the Dravidian practices of worship. It is
traditionally said that St. Thomas the Apostle had founded the Syrian Church in Malabar Coast before 100AD. But this had not affected
the masses at all. The people worshipped a mother goddess and lived comfortably. Evils of untouchability, and division of the population on the basis of caste and occupation, were unknown to them. People enjoyed full social freedom and equality. Dignity of labor was
recognized. Women enjoyed complete freedom and full right to education......

 

[SrNair]

..............How was the Caste System introduced in Kerala?

Kerala, during the Tamil Sangam Age (1-500 AD) was a very egalitarian society. Untouchability wasunknown, manual labour was respected and women held in high esteem. After the defeat of the Cheras by Cholas,
Buddhism declined and Brahmins introduced the Chatur-Varna caste-system. Behind this apalling caste system they introduced, lay a brilliant strategy aimed at usurping power using religion as a tool. Here is how it was implemented -
Arrival- c.800 AD: The first Brahmin
missionaries moved into Kerala through Tulu-naadu (Mangalore area). At that point in time, Kerala was a flourishing center for Buddhism and Jainism.

Establishing Credentials: Buddhist/Jain scholars were defeated in public debates and then local kings converted. This led to a more systematic settlement of 64 gramoms
and Illoms across Kerala .

Royal Patronage- c. 1100 AD : After being crushed by the Cholas, the recuperating Chera-Nair chieftains were `promoted` as Kshatriyas . This assured the Brahmins of
their socio-political status while the `new` Kshatriyas gained religious sanction of the new Vedic gods. This was the beginning of a long, mutually gratifying relationship. But
the `new` Kshatriyas, unlike their northern counterparts, continued to follow the Matrilineal system, worship Kaavu- Bhagawati , and at the same time, promote construction of new temples to the Vedic gods.

Re-creating Myths : An old Chera lore (of a king Velkezu Kuttavan, who flings his spear to claim land from the sea) was conveniently appropriated for Parashurama,
a Puranic character symbolizing aggressive Brahmanism, who uses his Parashu (Axe), to `create` new land for the settlers. In another myth, a legendary king, Mahabali (Maveli) is symbolically crushed by a midget
Brahmin (Vamana - yet another assimilative avatar of Vishnu).


Old gods, new bottles : Old icons like
Sastha (Buddha) were blended with folk heroes like Ayyappa (King Ayyan Adigal). The new god was then called Hariharasuta (son of Vishnu & Shiva); Murugan became identical with Subramonya/Kartikeya; Madura Meenakshi with Parvati.


Exclusivity : To prevent dilution of their powers, the Namboothiris called themselves Swadeshi and differentiated newer Brahmin
migrants (Embranthiri, Pattar, Potti) and branded them Paradeshi (foreigners).

Primogeniture : Only the eldest son was allowed to marry a Namboothiri lady and inherit land. Younger sons entered into Sambandhams (Relationship) with Nair women of matrilineal Tharavads . Unmarried
Namboothiri women were forced to remain spinsters and lead secluded lives.


Central Authority : While the Namboothiris gave themselves the power to punish and kill ( Kollum-kolayum ), only the head of one
Illom in Kerala had the power to punish Namboothiris.


Monopoly on Education : A strong control over institutions of learning ensured that mobility and communication was restricted.
Semi-historical works like Keralolpathi helped in projecting a Brahmin-centric view of the past.


Pollution Laws : The laws of pollution laid down that an `untouchable` should not come anywhere near the Namboothiri at all; should keep 24 feet away from the Nair; 12 feet away from the Ezhava!!
This absurd social structure and ostracism lasted for more than 500 years. The system ensured the rapid rise of Namboothiris as a powerful landed aristocracy. In places like
Chambakaserry and Edapally, the Namboothiris became kings themselves. Thanks to them,
Buddhism & Jainism was completely wiped out from Kerala; Later, Christianity and Islam became very popular; and Malayalam emerged
as a sanskritized cousin of Tamil.

But today, it does not take a discerning anthropologist to notice that for all the barriers they created, the `Aryan` Namboothiris look no different from the rest of the people of Kerala. It is also a tribute to the community that the greatest, assimilative social reform movement in recent Kerala history was led by a Namboothiri Brahmin.........

24 feet away from Nair?.Well according to the old method Nair was 'pure shudras' and Ezhavas are unpure Shudras.
This is what I am talking about .They dont have any problem for marry a Nair lady.

May be that story was myth but Velkezhu is not a mythological character...This from Wikipedia... Vel Kelu Kuttuvan , more frequently referred to as Kadal Pirakottiya Senguttuvan Chera (Tamil: சேரன் செங்குட்டுவன், Chēran Chenkūttūvan ), was the ruler of the Chera Kingdom in the Sangam Period .
Vel Kelu Kuttuvan ascended the Chera throne after the death of his father Nedum Cheralathan . He successfully intervened in a
civil war in the Chola Kingdom and established his relative Killi on the Chola throne. The land and naval expeditions against the Kadamba-"Yavana" allied forces were also
successful. He is also said to have defeated the Kongu people. Under his reign, the Chera.kingdom extended from Kollimalai in the east
to Tondi and Mantai in the western coast.
Vel Kelu Kuttuvan is famous for the legends surrounding Kannagi , the heroine of the legendary Tamil epic Silapathikaram . According
to the legends, Ilango Adigal, the Jain author of Silapathikaram was his younger brother. Vel Kelu Kuttuvan was born to Nedum Cheralathan
and Nalchonai- the daughter of a Chola king Manikilli.....


yes may be in aryanized hinduism.. Society before the Aryanization of Kerala
Until the fifth century AD the people of Kerala had no organized religion. A few followed Buddhist practices, but the majority followed the Dravidian practices of worship. It is
traditionally said that St. Thomas the Apostle had founded the Syrian Church in Malabar Coast before 100AD. But this had not affected
the masses at all. The people worshipped a mother goddess and lived comfortably. Evils of untouchability, and division of the population on the basis of caste and occupation, were unknown to them. People enjoyed full social freedom and equality. Dignity of labor was
recognized. Women enjoyed complete freedom and full right to education......

These Yavanas mean Greece.So Greek people engaged in a war against at that time .I think they were here only for trade.

Aryans mean ancient Persians.Due to intermixing there is no Persian gene in Kerala.Present Namboodiris dont have any
similarity with Persians not at all.

 

[abjktu]

24 feet away from Nair?.Well according to the old method Nair was 'pure shudras' and Ezhavas are unpure Shudras.
This is what I am talking about .They dont have any problem for marry a Nair lady.



These Yavanas mean Greece.So Greek people engaged in a war against at that time .I think they were here only for trade.

Aryans mean ancient Persians.Due to intermixing there is no Persian gene in Kerala.Present Namboodiris dont have any
similarity with Persians not at all.

Namboodiri veli...
The veli system was beneficial to the
matriarchal upper castes as also to the patriarchal Namboodiri and other Brahmin castes of Kerala . Among the Namboodiris only the eldest son was.permitted to marry with a view to maintain the integrity of ancestral property. The remaining males contracted Sambandhams with Kshatriya Princesses, aristocratic Nair ladies or from the other matriarchal castes, allowing the priestly Brahmins to cement
ties with the ruling aristocracy. Since the offspring of these alliances were, as per Marumakkathayam, members of their mothers castes and families, the Namboodiri father would not be obliged to provide for them. For the matriarchal castes in turn Sambandhams with Brahmins were a matter of prestige and social status. Thus Sambandham was in.both ways a gain to the castes involved.
Namboodiri-Kshatriya and Namboodiri- Nair Sambandhams may also be considered morganatic marriages for while the husband was of higher social status and the mother of relatively lower status, the children were still considered legitimate although they did not inherit the titles or wealth of their fathers. ...... It may also be stated that due to the majority of Namboodiri men having marital alliances with women of other castes, the
number of Nambudiris rapidly dwindled, and many Namboodiri ladies were forced to marry either men much older than themselves, resulting often in young widows, or else die as spinsters. At the same time the numerical strength of the
Nair Tharavadus and other matriarchal castes increased at the cost of the Namboodiri ladies.....

 

[possumlot]

yes may be in aryanized hinduism.. Society before the Aryanization of Kerala
Until the fifth century AD the people of Kerala had no organized religion. A few followed Buddhist practices, but the majority followed the Dravidian practices of worship. It is
traditionally said that St. Thomas the Apostle had founded the Syrian Church in Malabar Coast before 100AD. But this had not affected
the masses at all. The people worshipped a mother goddess and lived comfortably. Evils of untouchability, and division of the population on the basis of caste and occupation, were unknown to them. People enjoyed full social freedom and equality. Dignity of labor was
recognized. Women enjoyed complete freedom and full right to education......

LOL. You are back to spinning propaganda. There was no "Aryan" "Dravidian" divide. The whole AIT and associated theories are discredited by Genetic studies. There was no separate Aryanized hinduism ...or a separate dravidian practice. Hinduism is same both in the north and south. There are few difference due to adaptation of local form of worship but broadly its the same everywhere.

Ancestor worship and tree worship exist in the North too. So does devi worship and hero worship. It is not unique to kerala. Truth is there is no evidence of when the caste system was established in Kerala. Any information on this is speculation. Only one thin is certain, Women did enjoy complete freedom and full right to education.

Namboodiri veli...
The veli system was beneficial to the
matriarchal upper castes as also to the patriarchal Namboodiri and other Brahmin castes of Kerala . Among the Namboodiris only the eldest son was.permitted to marry with a view to maintain the integrity of ancestral property. The remaining males contracted Sambandhams with Kshatriya Princesses, aristocratic Nair ladies or from the other matriarchal castes, allowing the priestly Brahmins to cement
ties with the ruling aristocracy. Since the offspring of these alliances were, as per Marumakkathayam, members of their mothers castes and families, the Namboodiri father would not be obliged to provide for them. For the matriarchal castes in turn Sambandhams with Brahmins were a matter of prestige and social status. Thus Sambandham was in.both ways a gain to the castes involved.
Namboodiri-Kshatriya and Namboodiri- Nair Sambandhams may also be considered morganatic marriages for while the husband was of higher social status and the mother of relatively lower status, the children were still considered legitimate although they did not inherit the titles or wealth of their fathers. ...... It may also be stated that due to the majority of Namboodiri men having marital alliances with women of other castes, the
number of Nambudiris rapidly dwindled, and many Namboodiri ladies were forced to marry either men much older than themselves, resulting often in young widows, or else die as spinsters. At the same time the numerical strength of the
Nair Tharavadus and other matriarchal castes increased at the cost of the Namboodiri ladies.....

The ruling class was always the Verma's and no Namboodir married into the Vermas. On the contrary the Verma's married women from Namboodir or Nair houses.

Matriarchal system was the need of the time and all families followed it, from the Vermas (kings), Namboodri, Nairs, Ezhaavs etc. It was t ensure that people were ready to die for the kingdom and did not have any attachment to their houses or homes. Even the Namboodir's could not marry, Only the eldest could marry so that the knowledge could be passed on to the childrens. (for them knowledge of the shastras were the real wealth)

 

[abjktu]

LOL. You are back to spinning propaganda. There was no "Aryan" "Dravidian" divide. The whole AIT and associated theories are discredited by Genetic studies. There was no separate Aryanized hinduism ...or a separate dravidian practice. Hinduism is same both in the north and south. There are few difference due to adaptation of local form of worship but broadly its the same everywhere.

Ancestor worship and tree worship exist in the North too. So does devi worship and hero worship. It is not unique to kerala. Truth is there is no evidence of when the caste system was established in Kerala. Any information on this is speculation. Only one thin is certain, Women did enjoy complete freedom and full right to education.



The ruling class was always the Verma's and no Namboodir married into the Vermas. On the contrary the Verma's married women from Namboodir or Nair houses.

Matriarchal system was the need of the time and all families followed it, from the Vermas (kings), Namboodri, Nairs, Ezhaavs etc. It was t ensure that people were ready to die for the kingdom and did not have any attachment to their houses or homes. Even the Namboodir's could not marry, Only the eldest could marry so that the knowledge could be passed on to the childrens. (for them knowledge of the shastras were the real wealth)

........... It was not just the Nair that entered into `sambandham' with higher caste males. The Ambalavasi and the Kshatriya regularly had
`good alliance' with Namboodiris. But here the relationship was a bit deeper and more permanent. Unlike in the case of Sambandham with the Nair, the Namboodiri partner lived
with his Sambandham consort if she was Ambalavasi or Kshatriya. The Kshatriyas, till about a hundred years ago, had an unwritten rule that no male should marry within caste
but must have only a Sambandham alliance with Nair women. The Kshatriya female had to conceive progeny only through a sambandham alliance with Namboodiri males. In erstwhile
Travancore, the progeny of Kshatriya male and Nair women were referred to as Tampi and Tankachi ("younger brother" and "younger sister" respectively). However they were still
relegated to the shudra status and treated as Nairs. Later, `Tampi' and its feminine`Tankachi' became Nair caste- appellations indicating a wee bit higher status than ordinary Nairs (because of the Kshatriya connection). This system helped preserve the matrilineal lineage of kingship. As a Kshatriya male, the king could not marry within caste
but had recourse only to sambandham. This ensured that there could not be any Kshatriya
progeny of his. So, after his time, kingship would pass to his nephew (sister's son) who would be a full fledged Kshatriya on account of
his being the progeny of an 'anuloma' relationship of the female Kshatriya with a male Brahmin.......

 

[possumlot]

........... It was not just the Nair that entered into `sambandham' with higher caste males. The Ambalavasi and the Kshatriya regularly had
`good alliance' with Namboodiris. But here the relationship was a bit deeper and more permanent. Unlike in the case of Sambandham with the Nair, the Namboodiri partner lived
with his Sambandham consort if she was Ambalavasi or Kshatriya. The Kshatriyas, till about a hundred years ago, had an unwritten rule that no male should marry within caste
but must have only a Sambandham alliance with Nair women. The Kshatriya female had to conceive progeny only through a sambandham alliance with Namboodiri males. In erstwhile
Travancore, the progeny of Kshatriya male and Nair women were referred to as Tampi and Tankachi ("younger brother" and "younger sister" respectively). However they were still
relegated to the shudra status and treated as Nairs. Later, `Tampi' and its feminine`Tankachi' became Nair caste- appellations indicating a wee bit higher status than ordinary Nairs (because of the Kshatriya connection). This system helped preserve the matrilineal lineage of kingship. As a Kshatriya male, the king could not marry within caste
but had recourse only to sambandham. This ensured that there could not be any Kshatriya
progeny of his. So, after his time, kingship would pass to his nephew (sister's son) who would be a full fledged Kshatriya on account of
his being the progeny of an 'anuloma' relationship of the female Kshatriya with a male Brahmin.......

That is not true, it was the eldest son in the Namboodri household who married into a kshatriya or Ambalavasi (tamil iyengar) family and only he had a permanent wife. The rest of the sons could only have a temporary alliance. Its a misconception that only Nairs had a matrilineal system. The rule was universal.

Kerala had no viashya class in the varna system, so to say they had Chatur varna is factually wrong. They only have Tri-Varna.

There was only Kshatriya, Brahmin and Shudra, which is why the term Shudra did not have a negative connotation in Kerala, unlike the rest of India. So there was no "shudra status" as you have condescendingly put.

The wife of the king would be a Nair women, the husband of his sister would be a Namboodri man. That is how balance was kept between the castes.