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Historical Background of Pakistan and its People

Super duper Aryan man!

Google... arywarta(Pakistan) lol


Its Āryāvarta, and most people there were not "Aryans". Brahmins, priests, etc

Map_of_Vedic_India.png


This is basically the Indo-Ganginic plains.

Āryāvarta (Sanskrit: आर्यावर्त, "abode of the Aryas") is a name for Northern India in classical Sanskrit literature. The Manu Smriti (2.22) gives the name to "the tract between the Himalaya and the Vindhya ranges, from the eastern to the western sea".
The Vasistha Dharma Sutra I.8-9 and 12-13 locates Āryāvarta to the east of the disappearance of the Sarasvati in the desert, to the west of Kalakavana, to the north of the mountains of Pariyatra and Vindhya and to the south of the Himalaya. Baudhayana Dharmasutra (BDS) 1.1.2.10 gives similar definitions and declares that Āryāvarta is the land that lies west of Kalakavana, east of Adarsana, south of the Himalayas and north of the Vindhyas, but in BDS 1.1.2.11 Āryāvarta is confined to the Ganges - Yamuna doab, and BDS 1.1.2.13-15. Patañjali's Mahābhāṣya defines Āryāvarta like the Vasistha Dharma Sutra.
Some sutras recommend expiatory acts for those who have crossed the boundaries of Āryāvarta. Baudhayana Shrauta Sutra recommends this for those who have crossed the boundaries of Āryāvarta and ventured into far away places.
The Gurjar Pratihar king in the tenth century was entitled as Maharajadhiraja of Aryavarta
 
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Zoroastrans were not hindus, for god's sake correct yourselves. Sometimes the rivalary between paksitanis and indians drive them to a really funny level.
true that not all zorashtrians "were" originally Vedic hindus.
But the discussion here is abt the so called zoroastrians of the indus valley.(if at all they ever existed)
 
You are misinformed. Jinnah never sold his house in Bombay because he thought he could walk across the "border" every weekend to visit his relatives.

Fact is that he saw India and Pakistan as complimentary entities, and thought that India and Pakistan could form some loose federation after Independence. But that never happened because Islamist ideology take over in Pakistan.

Ask any educated Pakistan who is more than 50-60 years old and they will say same thing.

But Pakistani who grow up after Islamization believe such ridiculous things like Hindus are evil and Pakistan always exist.

Thats not true. Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah always referred to your country as Hindustan and our country as Pakistan.

In 1947 when the British left the subcontinent, our elders believed British india was over and two separate countries formed, Pakistan and Hindustan, but you hindustanis kept the foreign-made words india and indians because you wanted to keep the history too but our history of our land belongs to us and your history of your land belongs to you.

Btw, Quaid-e-Azam Muahmmad Ali Jinnah said in a speech he wanted Hindustan and Pakistan to be friendly neighbouring countries like Canada and the United States, but he soon realized that could not happen after the first war over Kashmir in 1948.
 
1.Pakistan has a 9000 year old recorded history, Bharat has a mere 60 year history : lol
2. If the Indus valley civilization belonged to the pakistani ancestors .. where the hell did the south indian dravidians (read people from tamil nadu, kerala , andhra and karnataka) pop out from?
3.Who the hell were Vedics ? Not Hindus?:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Aren't zooroastrians originally hindus who started following a Zooroatrianism which was modified form of vedic Hinduism preached by Zarathustra? What the hell were the buddhists doing before Buddha was born if not practicing hinduism or zooroastrianism ?
4. So aryavarta was pakistan? Ever cared to find out the meaning and the extents of aryavarta?
Sapta Sindhwa ? melluha? sindh? pancanda?Yeah right !all these were names of that part of india. First learn to pronounce them properly.. the way they were in the ancient times before your forefathers came about and started mispronouncing them.. uneducated as they were.
5. A little food for thought: Your Quaid -e -Azam said pakistan came into existence with the first conversion to islam in the sub continent. What are your views on his understanding of the history of pakistan?:what::what::pakistan:


And where did our ancestors come from? The sky?

LOL sounth indians share absolutely nothing with Pakistani people. Not Religion, not culture, not food, not clothing, not language.

Even your north indians dont consider south indians to be the same as them and you want us Pakistanis to have a link with south indians.

We may have some links with indian punjabis but not south indians :lol:

LOL have you even looked at the map. Wow what a long journey from the Indus Valley (Pakistan) to south india. I think south indians came from africa (makes more sense).


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Zoroastrans were not hindus, for god's sake correct yourselves. Sometimes the rivalary between paksitanis and indians drive them to a really funny level.

Quite true!

But there is heavy similarity between Vedic Hinduism and Zorastrianism.
 
but you hindustanis kept the foreign-made words india and indians because you wanted to keep the history too but our history of our land belongs to us and your history of your land belongs to you.

Hindustani itself is a foreign word. Bharat is also the official name of India.

Your religion, name, etc is foreign to your land fool!

our elders believed British india was over and two separate countries formed, Pakistan and Hindustan

Did your leaders want a land for Muslims and other for Hindus and called it Hindustan?? No, India is the land of Indian including Sikhs, Christians(my background), Jains, Muslims, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc
 
No ahmed according to the guy above the whole world was indian and hindu before islam, he is making a joke of himself, the vedics were monotheists, the zoroastrians were also monotheists, indus people were same as pakistani people today.
Just because bharat has adopted aryan culture and aryan language from arywarta(pakistan) they have forgotten their dravidian roots
Kudos to u for enlightening everyone on this forum that vedics were monotheists. What do u think is hinduism? Now if you start arguing there are number of gods in hinduism , just count the number of gods in the Vedic times.
Who said we forgot our dravidian roots. You are trying to make up for ur lack of self esteem by trying to suggest a racial superiority. To remind you--the all intelligent being , it was me who brought up the fact that dravidians are in india.

and No no .. nothing can be more funnier than bharat has history of 60 yrs and pakistan 9000. No never.:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
It is PAKISTANIS

not Paksitanis or Paskitanis. Type slower, spell the country name correctly. Or your post(s) will be reported.


k thanks.
 
Super duper Aryan man!

Google... arywarta(Pakistan) lol


Its Āryāvarta, and most people there were not "Aryans". Brahmins, priests, etc

Map_of_Vedic_India.png


This is basically the Indo-Ganginic plains.

Aryans were not Hindu


The Aryans associated with the Rig Veda and Sapta Sindhu (i.e. today's Pakistan region) were definitely not Hindu because they did not follow the Hindu caste system, they ate beef, sacrificed cows, culturally were closer to Avestan Iranians, forbade idolatry, etc. Also, not a single Hindu idol/temple has been excavated from the Rig Vedic Aryan period.

Here are some excerpts that support my views:

“The evidence of the Rig Veda shows that during the centuries when the Aryans were occupying the Punjab and composing the hymns of the Rig Veda, the north-west part of the subcontinent was culturally separate from the rest of India. The closest cultural relations of the Indo-Aryans at that period were with the Iranians, whose language and sacred texts are preserved in the various works known as the Avesta, in inscriptions in Old Persian, and in some other scattered documents. So great is the amount of material common to the Rig Veda Aryans and the Iranians that the books of the two peoples show common geographic names as well as deities and ideas”. (Pakistan and Western Asia, By Prof. Norman Brown)

According to A. L. Stravrianos on the non-Hindu nature of Rig Vedic Aryans:

"The word Veda means knowledge. There were originally four Vedas, but the most important is the Rigveda, which is also the oldest. The Rigveda is a primary source for study of the early Aryans; it is in essence a collection of 1028 hymns arranged in ten books. Per the Vedas, Aryans worshiped elements of nature in personified forms, and idolatry was forbidden.

"In Rig Veda, the gods of Dyaus is the same as the Greek Zeus (Roman Jupiter), Mitra is the same as the Graeco-Roman Mithras, Ushas is the same as the Greek Eos (Roman Aurora), and Agni is the same as the Graeco-Roman Ignis.

"The image of the Aryans that emerges from Vedic literature is that of a virile people, fond of war, drinking, chariot racing, and gambling. Their god of war, Indra, was an ideal Aryan warrior: ‘he dashed into battle joyously, wore golden armor, and was able to consume the flesh of three hundred buffaloes and drink three lakes of liquor at one time’.

"When they first arrived in the South Asia the Aryans were primarily pastoralists. Their economic life centered around their cattle and wealth was judged on the basis of the size of herds. As the newcomers settled in fertile river valleys, they gradually shifted more to agriculture. They lived in villages consisting of a number of related families. Several villages comprised a clan, and several clans a tribe, at the head of which was the king. The king’s authority depended on his personal prowess and initiative, and was limited by the council of nobles, and in some tribes by the freemen.

"The outstanding characteristics of this early Aryan society was its basic difference from the later Hinduism. Cows were not worshipped but eaten. Intoxicating spirits were not forsaken but joyously consumed. There were classes but no castes, and the priests were subordinate to the nobles rather than at the top of the social pyramid. In short, Aryan society resembled much more the contemporary Indo-European societies than it did Hinduism that was to develop in later centuries in the Gangetic Valley."

Further supports how a few Aryans who later migrated eastward towards India slowly became Hindu because of Dravidic-Mundic influences:

"The castes were hardened by the time the Aryans occupied the middle land i.e., the Gangetic Valley and distinguished themselves from their brethern in Sind and the Punjab who were despised by them for not observing the rules of caste .... and for their non-Brahmanical character.” (Sindhi Culture, By U.T. Thakur)

“While some Aryans had by now expanded far into India, their old home in the Punjab, Sind and the north-west was practically forgotten. Later Vedic literature mentions it rarely, and then usually with disparagement and contempt, as an impure land where sacrifices are not performed.” (The Wonder that was India, By A.L. Bhasham)

This is further supported by Dr. Gurupdesh Singh:

"From geographical information in the RigVeda, the Vedic Period (1500-500 BC) was confined to the northwest. The hymns composed by Vedic mystics/poets of the northwest (Saptha Sindhva) tell that the Vedic peoples worshipped non-Brahmanical Gods (Indra, Varuna, Mitra), ate cows, elected their chiefs, drank liqor, considered the Punjab rivers to be sacred, and refer to people living to the south in the gangetic region as 'Dasyas'! None of the gangetic Brahmanical gods (e.g Ram, Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma, etc.) are mentioned in RigVeda hyms nor do they appear in connected Aryan Avestan texts and Hittite tablets. Avestan terms for soldiers ('rathaestar') and citizens ('vastriyo') are similar to Vedic-derived terms (kshatriyas, vasihyas) but the Avestan term for priest ('athravan') is not even close to 'Brahmanas'. Moreover, central Gangetic religious texts like the Mahabharta and VarnaAshramDharma of Manu call the Vedic Aryans in Saptha Sindhva 'mlechas', 'sudras' and 'vratyas'; 'forbid Brahmins' from even visiting the northwest country ('Vahika-desa'); and depict dark Dravidian Gods like Krishna fighting and defeating Vedic Aryan gods like Indra (Mahabharta). Similarly, the RigVeda contains taboos and injunctions against the 'dasya-varta' region to the south of Saptha Sindhva and praises Indra (god of thunderbolt) for victories over 'dasya-purahs' (dasya cities).

"Both early RigVedic and gangetic Puranic sources clearly point to ethnic, cultural and religious differences and a 'clash of civilizations and nations' at the ganga indicating that the Vedic people and culture of the northwest did not accept the gangetic priests, their gods, shastras, religion, culture and Brahmanical caste ideology. The eastern gangetic heartland is not only historically a separate region, but geographically resides over 1500 miles to the southeast of the Saptha Sindhva country. Uptil the advent of Mohammed Ghori in the 13th century, the northwest was politically unified with southasia only 92 years under the Mauryas (out of 27 centuries) since the start of Saptha Sindhva’s Vedic period (1500 BC).

"A few Vedic tribes from Saptha Sindhva broke RigVedic norms and migrated southward. These numerically outnumbered groups expanding into the trans-gangetic region near the end of the Vedic period (8-6th century BC) tried to use the indigenous Dravidian priesthood to entrench themselves as the new ruling order. Within a few generations of acquiring control over the foreign Gangasthan, the minority Vedic tribes were usurped by the indigenous 'borrowed' priesthood; their Aryan religion, gods and customs mostly deposed and supplanted with indigenous gangetic gods and mythologies; and their new social order (varna or color based) replaced with the pre-existing profession (jati) based Brahmanical caste system ('chatur-varna' ). Through religious manipulation and intrigue, the Vedic in-comers to Gangasthan were usurped and made to surrender their political rule and soon pigeon-holed into becoming the loyal obedient chownkidars of their 'superior' dravidic Brahmanas."

Now coming to idolatry which is an integral part of Hinduism, there are clear evidences of early Aryans rejecting it :

“They are enveloped in darkness, in other words, are steeped in ignorance and sunk in the greatest depths of misery who worship the uncreated, eternal prakrti—the material cause of the world—in place of the All-pervading God, but those who worship visible things born of the Prakrti, such as the earth, trees, bodies (human and the like) in place of God are enveloped in still greater darkness, in other words, they are extremely foolish, fall into an awful hell of pain and sorrow, and suffer terribly for a long time.”—Yajur Veda 40:9.

“The Formless Supreme Spirit that pervades the universe can have no material representation, likeness or image.”—Yajur Veda 32:3.

Also, early Aryans had a Monist belief of worshipping elements of nature (in non-idolatrous personified forms): “There is only one God, worship Him” (Rig Veda, Vol. 6, Hymn 45 vs 16 ) and “Do not worship any one beside Him” (Rig Veda Bk. 8, Hymn 1, Vs 1)

Then there are clear evidences in the Rig Veda that Aryans regularly ate beef and sacrificed cows for religious purposes which are strictly forbidden in Hinduism:

Hymn CLXIX of the Rig Veda says: "May the wind blow upon our cows with healing; may they eat herbage ... Like-colored various-hued or single- colored whose names through sacrifice are known to Agni, Whom the Angirases produced by Ferbvour - vouschsafe to these, Parjanya, great protection. Those who have offered to the gods their bodies whose varied forms are all well known to Soma" [The Rig Veda (RV), translated by Ralph H. Griffith, New York, 1992, p. 647]. In the Rig Veda (RV: VIII.43.11) Agni is described as "fed on ox and cow" suggesting that cattle were sacrificed and roasted in fire.

Rigveda (10/85/13) declares, “On the occasion of a girl’s marriage oxen and cows are slaughtered”, and Rigveda (6/17/1) states that “Indra used to eat the meat of cow, calf, horse and buffalo.”

Quoting from Rigveda, historian H. H Wilson writes, “the sacrifice and consumption of horse and cow appears to have been common in the early periods of the Aryan culture.”
 
Hindustani itself is a foreign word. Bharat is also the official name of India.

Your religion, name, etc is foreign fool!

The word Pakistan was made by Muslim Punjabi Gujjar Chaudhry Rahmat Ali in the 1930's who was an active member of the Pakistan movement he was not a foreigner he was always part of the zameen of Pakistan.

Even the name of your religion, hinduism, was made by foreigners.

And Islam is for all of humanity, 13.5% of india's population is also Muslim.
 
Super duper Aryan man!

This is basically the Indo-Ganginic plains.

"From geographical information in the RigVeda, the Vedic Period (1500-500 BC) was confined to the northwest(pakistan). The hymns composed by Vedic mystics/poets of the northwest (Saptha Sindhva) tell that the Vedic peoples worshipped non-Brahmanical Gods (Indra, Varuna, Mitra), ate cows, elected their chiefs, drank liqor, considered the Punjab rivers to be sacred, and refer to people living to the south in the gangetic region as 'Dasyas'! None of the gangetic Brahmanical gods (e.g Ram, Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma, etc.) are mentioned in RigVeda hyms nor do they appear in connected Aryan Avestan texts and Hittite tablets. Avestan terms for soldiers ('rathaestar') and citizens ('vastriyo') are similar to Vedic-derived terms (kshatriyas, vasihyas) but the Avestan term for priest ('athravan') is not even close to 'Brahmanas'. Moreover, central Gangetic religious texts like the Mahabharta and VarnaAshramDharma of Manu call the Vedic Aryans in Saptha Sindhva 'mlechas', 'sudras' and 'vratyas'; 'forbid Brahmins' from even visiting the northwest country ('Vahika-desa'); and depict dark Dravidian Gods like Krishna fighting and defeating Vedic Aryan gods like Indra (Mahabharta). Similarly, the RigVeda contains taboos and injunctions against the 'dasya-varta' region to the south of Saptha Sindhva and praises Indra (god of thunderbolt) for victories over 'dasya-purahs' (dasya cities).
 
And where did our ancestors come from? The sky?

LOL sounth indians share absolutely nothing with Pakistani people. Not Religion, not culture, not food, not clothing, not language.

Even your north indians dont consider south indians to be the same as them and you want us Pakistanis to have a link with south indians.

We may have some links with indian punjabis but not south indians :lol:

LOL have you even looked at the map. Wow what a long journey from the Indus Valley (Pakistan) to south india. I think south indians came from africa (makes more sense).


SCABureau_450.jpg

we don't want to have any link with you pakistanis. So firstly stop flattering yourself.South indians don't have much in common even with the north indians. The indus valley civilisation was a dravidian civilization. the native dravids moved out succubming to the aryan invasion . Indus valley civilisation is in pakistan..true.
It belongs to pakistanis .... false. What makes sense to you makes little academic sense. However the works of numerous historians and academicians suggests that IVC was infact dravidian and not an aryan civilisation.
 
Super duper Aryan man!


This is basically the Indo-Ganginic plains.

To all indian
Last time, Arywarta was the region composed of Indus valley, Punjab and sindh were sacred. The aryavartans(punjabis and sindhis) called
the people living in ganga valley as Dasya vartans.
Read the whole article if you can
Ofcourse the whole world is wrong but you people are right.
 
LOL have you even looked at the map. Wow what a long journey from the Indus Valley (Pakistan) to south india.

If Humans can migrate from Africa to Australia and South America,you doubt the possibility of a 3000km migration ?

Migration_map4.png


I think south indians came from africa (makes more sense).

All Humans came from Africa.

By the way,there is no modern genetic link between Africans and Dravidians.

y-haplogroups-1500ad-world-map.gif


Genetic and racial significance doesn't hold to South Indians ,as they mixed.
 
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The word Pakistan was made by Muslim Punjabi Gujjar Chaudhry Rahmat Ali in the 1930's who was an active member of the Pakistan movement he was not a foreigner he was always part of the zameen of Pakistan.

Even the name of your religion, hinduism, was made by foreigners.

And Islam is for all of humanity, 13.5% of india's population is also Muslim.

Bharat is also an official name....

Dont like the name Hinduism? Ok what about sanatana dharma ?

Islam is for all humanity, I agree, but it is foreign religion and culture to the land. Just like some guy in Africa adopted the religion, is the same way we adopted the name India. Took it an made it our own.

BTW names all over the world are foreign in nature..

Britain, Gernany, China, Persia, Hong Kong, Indonesia, etc. All are NOT indigenous, whats your point?

To all indian
Last time, Arywarta was the region composed of Indus valley, Punjab and sindh were sacred. The aryavartans(punjabis and sindhis) called
the people living in ganga valley as Dasya vartans.
Read the whole article if you can
Ofcourse the whole world is wrong but you people are right.

Google Dasya vartans.

I love how people have sort of fake superior complex on the internet!
 
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