Has the Groundwork already been laid for a Turkic Corridor?

[FuturePAF]

The Azerbaijan-Armenian war ended with Azerbaijan guaranteed a corridor to its western enclave. The Turks seem like they plan to invest a lot into this corridor along the Armenian-Iranian border. It’s ramifications on Iran and Iranian trade in oil maybe seen as giving this route a green light from the west.

Could this be the unique opportunity President Erdogan hoped for when offering to collaborate more with Pakistan when he met PM Imran Khan, and also the push now for better relations with Russia and a trade corridor through Afghanistan

It may all be speculation until something actually happens. It would certainly make good use of the infrastructure built as part of CPEC.

From 8:08

moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/11/24/the-emerging-nakhchivan-corridor/amp/

Turkey’s infrastructure projects, investments total almost $6B in 2020

Turkish Transportation Minister Karaismailoglu says a railway project connecting Azerbaijani exclave of Nakhchivan to Turkey is being planned, and research for the project is near completion.

www.trtworld.com

Turkey to build gas pipeline to supply Nakhchivan

Turkey is fast-tracking a gas pipeline to supply Azerbaijan’s exclave of Nakhchivan, which would sideline Iranian gas sales to Azerbaijan and comes as Ankara is trying to repair its relationship with the U.S.

eurasianet.org

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Are you speculating a Turko-Azerbaijani-Central Asiatic-Afghan addendum to CPEC to bypass Iran? Or even incorporating Iran?

I don't think either is realistic as an entry point for Europe as CPEC is a rival to European economic interests, rather than something to be incorporated.

(Edit: but the more I think about it, it would be intriguing. Turkey and eastern european countries specifically might well be keen on such a project....not sure about western Europe)

I think Azerbaijan itself will be opened up a bit more to Europe via Turkey by this corridor. Probably not a huge consequence. Azerbaijan's main interest for western Europe is in terms of energy, and those pipelines already exist.

 

[FuturePAF]

Are you speculating a Turko-Azerbaijani-Central Asiatic-Afghan addendum to CPEC to bypass Iran? Or even incorporating Iran?

I don't think either is realistic as an entry point for Europe as CPEC is a rival to European economic interests, rather than something to be incorporated.

(Edit: but the more I think about it, it would be intriguing. Turkey and eastern european countries specifically might well be keen on such a project....not sure about western Europe)

I think Azerbaijan itself will be opened up a bit more to Europe via Turkey by this corridor. Probably not a huge consequence. Azerbaijan's main interest for western Europe is in terms of energy, and those pipelines already exist.

More so CPEC as an addendum to the Turkic nations own inter connectivity efforts.

There are a lot of raw materials, farm land and underutilized labor in Central Asia that with significant Turkish and/or European FDI they can be employed to grow the economies of all involved. Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan for their parts could diversify and have pipelines going eastward (and SouthEastward) and westward respectively.

Russia, for its influence in Central Asia would demand a share of the business/investment and could be accommodated in exchange for political assurances of stability and non-interference in business deals. This Russian influence could also be utilized to prevent “spoilers” in the central asian republics from supporting proxies, which may disrupt agreeded upon political realities. For example, Russia and its allies in Central Asia could be persuaded not to back a Tajik led block against what ever final form the Afghan government takes, just like the Russians got the Armenians to accept a less than favorable deal, in the recent conflict with Azerbaijan.

With western interests and funding waining in Afghanistan, this maybe the best time for a Turkic effort to stabilize the region on a mutually beneficial economic basis.

The decision about Iranian involvement would be Turkey/Turkic led, but I doubt Turkey would want to do all this work for another power to come in and undermine their influence and potentially undermine their investment considering US sanctions on Iran. I would expect the Turks to sideline the Iranians as much as possible, but their relations with Russia and the central Asian states would get them a share of the business in exchange for deeply discounted oil and gas.

With the push towards renewable energy, mining (lithium and cobalt in particular) will be as important as oil was last century. FDI and Modern equipment could make Central Asia a major player in this regard, and the Turkic Corridor by extension. At the very least, it’s an idea worth exploring in hopes of diversify our economic development avenues and decreasing our dependence on the gulf and remittances.

 

[Itachi]

It was laid more or less, more than 2 decades ago...

Work needs to be done on this. The benefits are massive, the losses sufferable. I believe this is bigger than CPEC.

It'll give us leverage against China and won't make us highly dependent on China like Pakistan was to the US before...

Because if Pakistan doesn't do something, China, Russia, India, Turkey, US & Israel probably will and they're already working on it...

The Azerbaijan-Armenian war ended with Azerbaijan guaranteed a corridor to its western enclave. The Turks seem like they plan to invest a lot into this corridor along the Armenian-Iranian border. It’s ramifications on Iran and Iranian trade in oil maybe seen as giving this route a green light from the west.

Could this be the unique opportunity President Erdogan hoped for when offering to collaborate more with Pakistan when he met PM Imran Khan, and also the push now for better relations with Russia and a trade corridor through Afghanistan

It may all be speculation until something actually happens. It would certainly make good use of the infrastructure built as part of CPEC.

From 8:08

moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/11/24/the-emerging-nakhchivan-corridor/amp/

Turkey’s infrastructure projects, investments total almost $6B in 2020

Turkish Transportation Minister Karaismailoglu says a railway project connecting Azerbaijani exclave of Nakhchivan to Turkey is being planned, and research for the project is near completion.

www.trtworld.com

Turkey to build gas pipeline to supply Nakhchivan

Turkey is fast-tracking a gas pipeline to supply Azerbaijan’s exclave of Nakhchivan, which would sideline Iranian gas sales to Azerbaijan and comes as Ankara is trying to repair its relationship with the U.S.

eurasianet.org

We need more threads like this on PDF.

Not the useless flame baits or trolling ones like the recent Rizvi vs. Edhi.

@krash am I right ma boi?

 

[FuturePAF]

It was laid more or less, more than 2 decades ago...

Work needs to be done on this. The benefits are massive, the losses sufferable. I believe this is bigger than CPEC.

It'll give us leverage against China and won't make us highly dependent on China like Pakistan was to the US before...

Because if Pakistan doesn't do something, China, Russia, India, Turkey, US & Israel probably will and they're already working on it...




We need more threads like this on PDF.

Not the useless flame baits or trolling ones like the recent Rizvi vs. Edhi.

@krash am I right ma boi?

Pakistan and Zia ul Haq were ahead of their time. Now with a leader like Erdogan in Turkey and the need to mineral resources as the whole world wants to transition to renewables and battery powered vehicles, this is the best time to make our move. This is also the best time to convince those in Afghanistan, to see the mutually beneficial potential without bending so much to the pittance of foreign aid being offered. They could be as rich as the Saudis once were if they play their cards right, as Pakistan as the eastern end of the route could benefit from the value added work as well as the transit trade.

Imagine Central Asia or Afghan minerals processed or at least value added in Pakistan, along with minerals from Africa arriving at Karachi and Gwadar, all linking up as part of the supply chain onwards to China. This could be even more likely if Chinese SLOC are threatened or the risk of them being threatened increase such that China shifts its trade route from a maritime route to one that crosses Pakistan.

The Chinese may even be funding pipelines from Iran to supply them with Oil and Gas, and if they play their cards right they can offer the Gulf Arab companies to ship their Oil and Gas via underwater pipelines from Oman to Gwadar (a shorter distance than the Oman-India pipeline being purposed, and from a larger customer; China instead of India) and onward to China by land through Pakistan.

It minimizes the need for their navy to be deployed to guard all those oil tankers from the gulf. At which point Pakistan would truly become the crossroads of Eurasia.

 

[Itachi]

Pakistan and Zia ul Haq were ahead of their time. Now with a leader like Erdogan in Turkey and the need to mineral resources as the whole world wants to transition to renewables and battery powered vehicles, this is the best time to make our move. This is also the best time to convince those in Afghanistan, to see the mutually beneficial potential without bending so much to the pittance of foreign aid being offered. They could be as rich as the Saudis once were if they play their cards right, as Pakistan as the eastern end of the route could benefit from the value added work as well as the transit trade.

Imagine Central Asia or Afghan minerals processed or at least value added in Pakistan, along with minerals from Africa arriving at Karachi and Gwadar, all linking up as part of the supply chain onwards to China. This could be even more likely if Chinese SLOC are threatened or the risk of them being threatened increase such that China shifts its trade route from a maritime route to one that crosses Pakistan.

The Chinese may even be funding pipelines from Iran to supply them with Oil and Gas, and if they play their cards right they can offer the Gulf Arab companies to ship their Oil and Gas via underwater pipelines from Oman to Gwadar (a shorter distance than the Oman-India pipeline being purposed, and from a larger customer; China instead of India) and onward to China by land through Pakistan.

It minimizes the need for their navy to be deployed to guard all those oil tankers from the gulf. At which point Pakistan would truly become the crossroads of Eurasia.

Exactly.....I would like to add more but I'll let others do that so that I don't hijack this topic...

What I'll say is that the future belongs to us, we only need to work hard for it.....and so does Pakistan and its leaders.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

The Azerbaijan-Armenian war ended with Azerbaijan guaranteed a corridor to its western enclave. The Turks seem like they plan to invest a lot into this corridor along the Armenian-Iranian border. It’s ramifications on Iran and Iranian trade in oil maybe seen as giving this route a green light from the west.

Could this be the unique opportunity President Erdogan hoped for when offering to collaborate more with Pakistan when he met PM Imran Khan, and also the push now for better relations with Russia and a trade corridor through Afghanistan

It may all be speculation until something actually happens. It would certainly make good use of the infrastructure built as part of CPEC.

From 8:08

moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/11/24/the-emerging-nakhchivan-corridor/amp/

Turkey’s infrastructure projects, investments total almost $6B in 2020

Turkish Transportation Minister Karaismailoglu says a railway project connecting Azerbaijani exclave of Nakhchivan to Turkey is being planned, and research for the project is near completion.

www.trtworld.com

Turkey to build gas pipeline to supply Nakhchivan

Turkey is fast-tracking a gas pipeline to supply Azerbaijan’s exclave of Nakhchivan, which would sideline Iranian gas sales to Azerbaijan and comes as Ankara is trying to repair its relationship with the U.S.

eurasianet.org

Absolutely this is our ticket to teaching the rich gora nations a lesson and to wean ourselves off of their opium aid packages. We need to jump on this. Pakistan could make tens of billions of dollars even if we capture the logistics(trucking, rail and freight) industry.

If this happens then the Silk Road really will be brought back to life. We could become a unit to rival the EU. Couple that with naval routes to Far East and Middle East.

This would fulfill my dream of Pakistanis stop chasing after arrogant rich white goras who will never meaningfully benefit Pakistan rather countries that are much like us.

 

[Imad.Khan]

It was laid more or less, more than 2 decades ago...

Work needs to be done on this. The benefits are massive, the losses sufferable. I believe this is bigger than CPEC.

It'll give us leverage against China and won't make us highly dependent on China like Pakistan was to the US before...

Because if Pakistan doesn't do something, China, Russia, India, Turkey, US & Israel probably will and they're already working on it...

What Pakistan needs is to stabilize Afghanistan and then make corridors to the CAS states So they can use Pakistani ports for trade.

We also need to build new ports and build cities from scratch at Pasni, Jiwani, and Omrara just like Gwader. More cities means more jobs and will take the load off Karachi and spread the population evenly on all other cities.

Pakistan also needs to build canals connecting the Indus River to all these major cities. This will not only satisfy the demand for water by the population in these cities but also make all the areas on the way cultivatable.

In my opinion this is the future of Pakistan.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Pakistan and Zia ul Haq were ahead of their time. Now with a leader like Erdogan in Turkey and the need to mineral resources as the whole world wants to transition to renewables and battery powered vehicles, this is the best time to make our move. This is also the best time to convince those in Afghanistan, to see the mutually beneficial potential without bending so much to the pittance of foreign aid being offered. They could be as rich as the Saudis once were if they play their cards right, as Pakistan as the eastern end of the route could benefit from the value added work as well as the transit trade.

Imagine Central Asia or Afghan minerals processed or at least value added in Pakistan, along with minerals from Africa arriving at Karachi and Gwadar, all linking up as part of the supply chain onwards to China. This could be even more likely if Chinese SLOC are threatened or the risk of them being threatened increase such that China shifts its trade route from a maritime route to one that crosses Pakistan.

The Chinese may even be funding pipelines from Iran to supply them with Oil and Gas, and if they play their cards right they can offer the Gulf Arab companies to ship their Oil and Gas via underwater pipelines from Oman to Gwadar (a shorter distance than the Oman-India pipeline being purposed, and from a larger customer; China instead of India) and onward to China by land through Pakistan.

It minimizes the need for their navy to be deployed to guard all those oil tankers from the gulf. At which point Pakistan would truly become the crossroads of Eurasia.

We have wasted decades chasing after rich white goras dude. We literally had the whole world for trade. But we let the oppurtunities pass us by. Pakistan's future indeed lies with Eurasian integration.

 

[FuturePAF]

Absolutely this is our ticket to teaching the rich gora nations a lesson and to wean ourselves off of their opium aid packages. We need to jump on this. Pakistan could make tens of billions of dollars even if we capture the logistics(trucking, rail and freight) industry.

If this happens then the Silk Road really will be brought back to life. We could become a unit to rival the EU. Couple that with naval routes to Far East and Middle East.

This would fulfill my dream of Pakistanis stop chasing after arrogant rich white goras who will never meaningfully benefit Pakistan rather countries that are much like us.

And then as Prime Minister Imran Khan said, people will come to Pakistan in search of a job.

What Pakistan needs is to stabilize Afghanistan and then make corridors to the CAS states So they can use Pakistani ports for trade.

View attachment 693279

We also need to build new ports and build cities from scratch at Pasni, Jiwani, and Omrara just like Gwader. More cities means more jobs and will take the load off Karachi and spread the population evenly on all other cities.

View attachment 693278

Pakistan also needs to build canals connecting the Indus River to all these major cities. This will not only satisfy the demand for water by the population in these cities but also make all the areas on the way cultivatable.

In my opinion this is the future of Pakistan.

If you want to smile and weep. Just google search “Pakistan Flood control system”, and look at the presentation. it was presented to WAPDA in 2011.

They didn’t care for it at the time. If we can get the money coming from this Turkic Corridor, we could built the flood control system. Preventing damage when flood occur, in fact storing water lost during flooding. 55% increase in arable land. Imagine all the people that could cultivate new farm land. Then we could also afford to do the most modern agriculture and lower domestic food prices while exporting excess food to the world, through these very same corridors and ports.

So much is possible if we can secure a sustainable income stream domestically. No longer would our people have to go work in the gulf, but could choose to as we could afford to educate our entire population properly. At the very least we could reach at least the Iranian standard of living (4x our current standard of living) and with more opportunities, we could afford to build up all the housing our populations needs.

Economic growth could be so much above other countries, the world would be lined up with FDI, and we could force them to remove all politically motivated restrictions like FATF.

But we should never get cocky, and keep Russia and China and even Iran onboard to these efforts. Eurasian economic cooperation with lift all boats, especially when China is becoming the largest economy and a major consumer market.

A stable Central Asia would also bring American, European, and Gulf Arab investors. No reason to cut them out of investing as long as the counties involved get their fair compensation of business and value added work. Being an integral part of the global economy is the best way to have your interests respected. We need only look at the gulf Arabs and their oil wealth. I just hope the central Asians (Pakistan included) doesn’t squander the wealth like the Gulf Arabs have done.

With Biden coming in, weary of Russia and China, this corridor may also be a better way for Turkey and Pakistan to reset relations on an economic basis with the US.

 

[nahtanbob]

I can see Azerbaijan benefiting from Turkic corridor. But it is a stretch to claim other Central Asian Republics find this route economical.

In general Central Asian countries minus Azerbaijan already have two outlets - China and Russia. Iran and Pakistan are 3rd and 4th options.

The amount of natural resource extraction is by no means going to move the needle in Pakistani economy

 

[FuturePAF]

I can see Azerbaijan benefiting from Turkic corridor. But it is a stretch to claim other Central Asian Republics find this route economical.

In general Central Asian countries minus Azerbaijan already have two outlets - China and Russia. Iran and Pakistan are 3rd and 4th options.

The amount of natural resource extraction is by no means going to move the needle in Pakistani economy

The key is Turkey. If they make the investment, they would only have done so after a careful economics feasibility of the move. Granted, it would be a small investment at first, but that is only to prevent being burned, if the politics of the venture are not right.

The central Asian countries (and Russia) would also want to diversify away from an emerging China. Which is why Turkmenistan would be the key central Asian country in this venture. They could start by building a series of pipelines for their oil and gas to Azerbaijan, as well as through Afghanistan to Pakistan and the world market. A route through Turkmenistan by road and/or rail would be all that is needed, if the Turks become interested and a secure corridor through Afghanistan can be formed. Recently Russia indicated it wanted to expand trade with Pakistan, which this corridor through Turkmenistan would do.

Western mining companies would also venture in if there is money to be made with the expected increase in demand for renewables and batteries. They may want to use this route if Biden and his incoming administration sanctions business ventures or trade with Russia directly.

It comes down to politics and if the initial investments bare any fruit. That is why a CPEC expansion through Afghanistan would be an addendum to a Turkish led effort. Chinese investors could come in to fund value added factories in Pakistan if the minerals can be shipped to them, because they wouldn’t feel as securing building those same factories in Afghanistan.

 

[Imad.Khan]

And then as Prime Minister Imran Khan said, people will come to Pakistan in search of a job.


If you want to smile and weep. Just google search “Pakistan Flood control system”, and look at the presentation. it was presented to WAPDA in 2011.

They didn’t care for it at the time. If we can get the money coming from this Turkic Corridor, we could built the flood control system. Preventing damage when flood occur, in fact storing water lost during flooding. 55% increase in arable land. Imagine all the people that could cultivate new farm land. Then we could also afford to do the most modern agriculture and lower domestic food prices while exporting excess food to the world, through these very same corridors and ports.

So much is possible if we can secure a sustainable income stream domestically. No longer would our people have to go work in the gulf, but could choose to as we could afford to educate our entire population properly. At the very least we could reach at least the Iranian standard of living (4x our current standard of living) and with more opportunities, we could afford to build up all the housing our populations needs.

Economic growth could be so much above other countries, the world would be lined up with FDI, and we could force them to remove all politically motivated restrictions like FATF.

But we should never get cocky, and keep Russia and China and even Iran onboard to these efforts. Eurasian economic cooperation with lift all boats, especially when China is becoming the largest economy and a major consumer market.

A stable Central Asia would also bring American, European, and Gulf Arab investors. No reason to cut them out of investing as long as the counties involved get their fair compensation of business and value added work. Being an integral part of the global economy is the best way to have your interests respected. We need only look at the gulf Arabs and their oil wealth. I just hope the central Asians (Pakistan included) doesn’t squander the wealth like the Gulf Arabs have done.

With Biden coming in, weary of Russia and China, this corridor may also be a better way for Turkey and Pakistan to reset relations on an economic basis with the US.

Excellent i see we are both on the same page, however i do not think Pakistanis going abroad is a bad thing. Pakistanis abroad play an extremely important dual role of not only sending back remittances but also to spread the influence of the country. They are also useful in countering the narrative of the enemy. I will share you my experience, I am the only Pakistani in my company, which is full of Indians and because of me i am able to improve the image of the country and also dissipate the propagandas spread by Indians.

What would be even better is if the State can assist overseas Pakistanis and Pakistani Manufactures to open retail businesses that sell Pakistani products, like ceramic tiles, clothing & accessories, leather goods, furniture, cookware etc etc. that will not only increase the remittances and exports but will also improve the influence of the Pakistani diaspora ( with wealth comes power/influence).

Check this video

P.S just went through the slideshare of the flood control system............its pretty good

 

[Itachi]

What Pakistan needs is to stabilize Afghanistan and then make corridors to the CAS states So they can use Pakistani ports for trade.

View attachment 693279

We also need to build new ports and build cities from scratch at Pasni, Jiwani, and Omrara just like Gwader. More cities means more jobs and will take the load off Karachi and spread the population evenly on all other cities.

View attachment 693278

Pakistan also needs to build canals connecting the Indus River to all these major cities. This will not only satisfy the demand for water by the population in these cities but also make all the areas on the way cultivatable.

In my opinion this is the future of Pakistan.

Absolutely, more ports are needed also, not just for commercial but also for military purposes. Great read.

 

[FuturePAF]

Excellent i see we are both on the same page, however i do not think Pakistanis going abroad is a bad thing. Pakistanis abroad play an extremely important dual role of not only sending back remittances but also to spread the influence of the country. They are also useful in countering the narrative of the enemy. I will share you my experience, I am the only Pakistani in my company, which is full of Indians and because of me i am able to improve the image of the country and also dissipate the propagandas spread by Indians.

What would be even better is if the State can assist overseas Pakistanis and Pakistani Manufactures to open retail businesses that sell Pakistani products, like ceramic tiles, clothing & accessories, leather goods, furniture, cookware etc etc. that will not only increase the remittances and exports but will also improve the influence of the Pakistani diaspora ( with wealth comes power/influence).

Check this video

P.S just went through the slideshare of the flood control system............its pretty good

Thanks for looking at the slideshare. It’s heartbreaking that so much can be done with just the right financial management.

I am not against Pakistanis going abroad (I, myself am an overseas Pakistani) but the need for Pakistani to have to go abroad in order for them to make a good living is heart breaking, when you can tell many of them just want to stay at home with friends and family. This is especially true if they have to go work in the gulf and be separated from their loved ones. Even being overseas, in the west, away from most of your family can make you homesick for your old friends and good halal food. A man can’t live on fish and vegetables and carbs all the time.

I totally agree Pakistanis abroad can change the perception of the people they meet, especially in areas that have never met one. I have had this pleasure, especially when talking to a class room of middle school kids, in rural America, about giving Back to the community by joining the medical field.

I wholeheartedly agree the Pakistani consulates should work with Local Pakistani communities to promote Pakistani products, as much as possible. Not only that, there should be cultural centers that promote and mentor children entering a diverse field of professions. If the children are so inclined to want to go back to Pakistan, the consulate should support them to get the education they need abroad so they can fill a niche in high demand in Pakistan.

I can think of Kumail Nanjiani and the movie industry. From his breakout role in the Big Sick and the TV show Silicon Valley, and most recently as a superhero in a major Hollywood movie; Eternals, he could really help bring the industry to an international level.

I hope Kumail Nanjiani could mentor some of the young Pakistanis in Hollywood, trying to come up in the industry. (Kumail Nanjiani seems like a very patriotic Pakistani based on how proud he seemed to be about being Pakistani in the Big Sick if I remember correctly). For example this YouTuber named Labib Yasir seems like he just needs guidance.

considering many new movies had to come out on Netflix and similar streaming services, Kumail Nanjiani has gotten decent to positive reviews for his work in “The lovebirds”. He would be a great mentor for young actors and actresses entering the industry and potentially a game changing consultant for the Pakistani movie industry to make it big in the international market. Quality not quantity.