Haryana discovery that promises to challenge our ancient history

[anonymus]

Read your own citation. The god was called "Imro". Nuristanis and Kalaash have nothing to do with hinduism. The are thought to follow an indo-iranian pagan religion. What's next? Ancient Persians were also hindus?

Yamraj in Kamviri Language = "Imro". Probably you missed that.

Characteristics of "Imro" are same as that of Yama.

Kalash is an ancient form of Hinduism that revered a Creator god, the ancient Hindu god Yama Raja ( Imra in Kamviri).

This is as good a source one could get (unless one argues that US Army is providing faulty information to their intelligence operatives).

https://info.publicintelligence.net/MCIA-AfghanCultures/Nuristanis.pdf


Anyone could attest that I am posting solid proofs, while you are ranting like a "skin colour" obsessed madman.

 

[Kabira]

Watch some Kalash documentaries, their culture is far from being like hindus.

 

[ghoul]

Yamraj in Kamviri Language = "Imro". Probably you missed that.

Characteristics of "Imro" are same as that of Yama.



This is as good a source one could get (unless one argues that US Army is providing faulty information to their intelligence operatives).

https://info.publicintelligence.net/MCIA-AfghanCultures/Nuristanis.pdf


Anyone could attest that I am posting solid proofs, while you are ranting like a "skin colour" obsessed madman.

You are self hating bhindian, always seeking association with foreigners just like the rest of your kind.

 

[Kabira]

Hell No!!!
The robust warlike ppl had the same skeleton as the south asians.

Excerpts from Michel danino's book
View attachment 218886
And if at all somebody had migrated to these sites were ppl who had no knowledge of metallurgy and town planning. Compared to well planned rectangular cities (which had holy ratios), these newcomers who arrived at the scene after river saraswati had dried up and after a period of desertion in Harappan cities used to live in circular houses. If at all there were aryans, then it was these uneducated lot.
Let me repost what I said


Please go and educate yourself now.

South Asians is broad term bibi.

Yamraj in Kamviri Language = "Imro". Probably you missed that.

Characteristics of "Imro" are same as that of Yama.



This is as good a source one could get (unless one argues that US Army is providing faulty information to their intelligence operatives).

https://info.publicintelligence.net/MCIA-AfghanCultures/Nuristanis.pdf


Anyone could attest that I am posting solid proofs, while you are ranting like a "skin colour" obsessed madman.

Shame on you claiming Kalash people, so much inferioity complex.

 

[Sneaker]

I don't recognize it, and don't give much credence to some symbols from Mohanjodero making appearance in Rashtrakuta inscriptions.


While Sindhu-Saraswati civilization has its own script, it has not been deciphered and we do not even know its type with 100% certainity, though there is near absolute probability that it is an ideographic script. They are similar to Egyptian Hieroglyphs.The Hieroglyphs were no alphabetic, but ideographic.The alphabet was invented in Phoenicia (Levant) essentially from the clash of the Egyptian & Sumerian scripts.


The difference between Alphabetic and ideographic scripts is that : In Alphabetic script letters represent phonemes (basic sounds) ,and consist of Vowels (Sound pronounced with an open vocal tract so that there is no build-up of air pressure at any point above the glottis.) and consonants (Sound articulated with complete or partial closure of the vocal tract); while In ideographic , a letter represent an idea or concept.

In ideographic script, writing is divested from pronunciation, the people living in Indus-Saraswati civilization may have been speaking proto-Tamil , but we would never be able to know it.

Example of Egyptian hieroglyphs

​

An example of Indus script:

Example of another undechipered script: Minonian Linear A

View attachment 218942​

Phoenician script (first alphabetic script)

​

This a quote from mit.edu

"Now the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and to whom the Gephyraei belonged, introduced into Greece upon their arrival a great variety of arts, among the rest that of writing, whereof the Greeks till then had, as I think, been ignorant. And originally they shaped their letters exactly like all the other Phoenicians, but afterwards, in course
of time, they changed by degrees their language, and together with it the form likewise of their characters. Now the Greeks who dwelt about those parts at that time were chiefly the Ionians. The Phoenician letters were accordingly adopted by them, but with some variation in the shape of a few, and so they arrived at the present use, still
calling the letters Phoenician, as justice required, after the name of those who were the first to introduce them into Greece. Paper rolls also were called from of old "parchments" by the Ionians, because formerly when paper was scarce they used, instead, the skins of sheep and goats- on which material many of the barbarians are even now wont
to write.

I myself saw Cadmeian characters engraved upon some tripods in the temple of Apollo Ismenias in Boeotian Thebes, most of them shaped like the Ionian. One of the tripods has the inscription following:-


Me did Amphitryon place, from the far Teleboans coming. "

http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.mb.txt

A useful podcast on development of language:

BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time, The Written World, Episode 1





It is a linguistic group, but had strong racial character due its steppe origin which is predominantly Caucasoid.

historians pretty much agree it wasn't hyroglip, due very limited number of signs anr the repetition pattern. The latest computer model predict language closer to snskrit. The person who created that model wqs from nearby my hometown, and passed away some time ago ( i think ). His last name is shikaripura and I can't remember his first name for some reason. He is very well known in asi circles..

 

[Makaramarma]

@anonymus is there anything in particulate you want me to comment on ?

 

[anonymus]

@anonymus is there anything in particulate you want me to comment on ?

No.

I was drawing your notice towards my post on page 6, in which there was discussion over development of Indian scripts.

 

[Makaramarma]

I don't recognize it, and one should not give much credence to some symbols from Mohanjodero making appearance in Rashtrakuta inscriptions.


While Sindhu-Saraswati civilization has its own script, it has not been deciphered and we do not even know its type with 100% certainity, though there is near absolute probability that it is an ideographic script. They are similar to Egyptian Hieroglyphs.The Hieroglyphs were no alphabetic, but ideographic.The alphabet was invented in Phoenicia (Levant) essentially from the clash of the Egyptian & Sumerian scripts.


The difference between Alphabetic and ideographic scripts is that : In Alphabetic script letters represent phonemes (basic sounds) ,and consist of Vowels (Sound pronounced with an open vocal tract so that there is no build-up of air pressure at any point above the glottis.) and consonants (Sound articulated with complete or partial closure of the vocal tract); while In ideographic , a letter represent an idea or concept.

In ideographic script, writing is divested from pronunciation, the people living in Indus-Saraswati civilization may have been speaking proto-Tamil , but we would never be able to know it.

Example of Egyptian hieroglyphs

​

An example of Indus script:

Example of another undechipered script: Minonian Linear A

View attachment 218942​

Phoenician script (first alphabetic script)

​

This a quote from mit.edu

"Now the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and to whom the Gephyraei belonged, introduced into Greece upon their arrival a great variety of arts, among the rest that of writing, whereof the Greeks till then had, as I think, been ignorant. And originally they shaped their letters exactly like all the other Phoenicians, but afterwards, in course
of time, they changed by degrees their language, and together with it the form likewise of their characters. Now the Greeks who dwelt about those parts at that time were chiefly the Ionians. The Phoenician letters were accordingly adopted by them, but with some variation in the shape of a few, and so they arrived at the present use, still
calling the letters Phoenician, as justice required, after the name of those who were the first to introduce them into Greece. Paper rolls also were called from of old "parchments" by the Ionians, because formerly when paper was scarce they used, instead, the skins of sheep and goats- on which material many of the barbarians are even now wont
to write.

I myself saw Cadmeian characters engraved upon some tripods in the temple of Apollo Ismenias in Boeotian Thebes, most of them shaped like the Ionian. One of the tripods has the inscription following:-
Me did Amphitryon place, from the far Teleboans coming. "

http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.mb.txt

A useful podcast on development of language:

BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time, The Written World, Episode 1

It is a linguistic group, but had strong racial character due its steppe origin which is predominantly Caucasoid.

Its a great article by you, but there is a lot of similarity between the Harrapan script and the Rakhigarhi script.

Its probably the evolution of consonantal writing from Heiroglyphs.

Now even the same scrip is found in Dholavira, in Gujarat.

Though the characters are based on objects linked to the rivers, it seems to represent consonants.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I don't recognize it, and one should not give much credence to some symbols from Mohanjodero making appearance in Rashtrakuta inscriptions.


While Sindhu-Saraswati civilization has its own script, it has not been deciphered and we do not even know its type with 100% certainity, though there is near absolute probability that it is an ideographic script. They are similar to Egyptian Hieroglyphs.The Hieroglyphs were no alphabetic, but ideographic.The alphabet was invented in Phoenicia (Levant) essentially from the clash of the Egyptian & Sumerian scripts.


The difference between Alphabetic and ideographic scripts is that : In Alphabetic script letters represent phonemes (basic sounds) ,and consist of Vowels (Sound pronounced with an open vocal tract so that there is no build-up of air pressure at any point above the glottis.) and consonants (Sound articulated with complete or partial closure of the vocal tract); while In ideographic , a letter represent an idea or concept.

In ideographic script, writing is divested from pronunciation, the people living in Indus-Saraswati civilization may have been speaking proto-Tamil , but we would never be able to know it.

Example of Egyptian hieroglyphs

​

An example of Indus script:

Example of another undechipered script: Minonian Linear A

View attachment 218942​

Phoenician script (first alphabetic script)

​

This a quote from mit.edu

"Now the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and to whom the Gephyraei belonged, introduced into Greece upon their arrival a great variety of arts, among the rest that of writing, whereof the Greeks till then had, as I think, been ignorant. And originally they shaped their letters exactly like all the other Phoenicians, but afterwards, in course
of time, they changed by degrees their language, and together with it the form likewise of their characters. Now the Greeks who dwelt about those parts at that time were chiefly the Ionians. The Phoenician letters were accordingly adopted by them, but with some variation in the shape of a few, and so they arrived at the present use, still
calling the letters Phoenician, as justice required, after the name of those who were the first to introduce them into Greece. Paper rolls also were called from of old "parchments" by the Ionians, because formerly when paper was scarce they used, instead, the skins of sheep and goats- on which material many of the barbarians are even now wont
to write.

I myself saw Cadmeian characters engraved upon some tripods in the temple of Apollo Ismenias in Boeotian Thebes, most of them shaped like the Ionian. One of the tripods has the inscription following:-


Me did Amphitryon place, from the far Teleboans coming. "

http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.mb.txt

A useful podcast on development of language:

BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time, The Written World, Episode 1





It is a linguistic group, but had strong racial character due its steppe origin which is predominantly Caucasoid.

Can you please break it down into simpler terms? The stuff you wrote above, not the one that you quoted me(that's simple)

 

[Viva India]

You are self hating bhindian, always seeking association with foreigners just like the rest of your kind.

Every Abdullah,Farukh or Jamal from Pakistan like you are trying to associate with our culture/religion.

PlZ do not associate yourself with India or our culture as your are of unknown origin or Mallecha AKA outcaste.

First try to figure out your origin as you were colonized by every know come civilization starting from Persians to Arabs

 

[Levina]

I said no such thing, only said that there is no evidence to support that assertion.
Again only that there is no evidence supporting such a hypothesis.

Vague!
What 're you pointing at?

They would then have to go through the "Aryans" who were already well established in the east if you accept the premise that they existed there. There is again no evidence that such a thing happened..

But nobody is talking of large scale migration here.
Rome wasnt built in a day!
The harappan cities were preceded by a long phase called “early Harappan” or “regionalization era,”. Early phase is now dated as 5000-2600 BC. It was itself the result of a long evolution between 7000 and 5000 BC, which saw the emergence of the first village farming communities and pastoral camps. The post harappan phase was equally long. The end of the mature phase took place around 1900 BC, when most of the cities were gradually abandoned as the river saraswati began to dry. Some archeologists called this phase the dark-age, which was meant to signify total break in Indian civilization as a result of SSC's decline. This dark phase is now called post-Harappan, or the“localization era,” which is dated about 1900-1300 BC. This phase went on to provide a smooth transition to the first historical states in the Ganga region.
Request Rejected

That's a bit of a leap, there were swastika like symbols everyone, won't be able to support an assertion of people having moved. Symbols might well make that transition themselves.

I don't recognize it, and one should not give much credence to some symbols from Mohanjodero making appearance in Rashtrakuta inscriptions

Oh!
So you guys think that symbol has no importance??
The Harappan Heritage and the Aryan Problem | Michel Danino - Academia.edu

"Harappan art is disappointingly scanty and restrained,we must admit. Yet it is noteworthy that most of these few forms didsurvive. The Harappan “endlessknot” is found all over India (in rangoli designs for example) and also in inscriptions (Fig. 11, Sarkar &Pande 1999: 128). Similarly symbols like the svastika, thesun, the chakra, the cross, etc. are common both inHarappan symbolism and later Indian iconography. Even the mysterious ritual stand, placed in front of the equally mysterious unicorn, appears on Sangam coins (in front of a horse). Motifs commonly used on pottery such as thepeacocks, fish, etc. also lived on. The Harappans revered trees, as shown by numerous depictions of trees growingfrom a low platform, a frequent symbol on coins from Mauryan times onward."


That symbol was used by Michel Danino and RS Bhist to show similarities between the SSC and present Indian culture. I'm sure those men who excavated the SSC sites 've more knowledge than you and me.

That doesn't prove anything, that kind of a gap is way too large to draw a connection.

Are you saying Kampilya and Dholavira 've no similarities???

http://www.iisc.ernet.in/prasthu/pages/PP_data/paper1.pdf

 

[Bang Galore]

Vague!
What 're you pointing at?


But nobody is talking of large scale migration here.
Rome wasnt built in a day!
The harappan cities were preceded by a long phase called “early Harappan” or “regionalization era,”. Early phase is now dated as 5000-2600 BC. It was itself the result of a long evolution between 7000 and 5000 BC, which saw the emergence of the first village farming communities and pastoral camps. The post harappan phase was equally long. The end of the mature phase took place around 1900 BC, when most of the cities were gradually abandoned as the river saraswati began to dry. Some archeologists called this phase the dark-age, which was meant to signify total break in Indian civilization as a result of SSC's decline. This dark phase is now called post-Harappan, or the“localization era,” which is dated about 1900-1300 BC. This phase went on to provide a smooth transition to the first historical states in the Ganga region.

Oh!
So you guys think that symbol has no importance??


Are you saying Kampilya and Dholavira 've no similarities???

My point is simple. None of this constitutes incontrovertible evidence. There is simple no confirmed evidence of a large "Dravidian" presence in North India which then moved south. everyone has theories & this is as good or as bad as some of the others but nothing more.

 

[anonymus]

Can you please break it down into simpler terms? The stuff you wrote above, not the one that you quoted me(that's simple)

I was expounding the difference between alphabetic and ideographic script.

Alphabetic script records language as we speak it.

Consider a basic sentence : The King eats.

Now if we write it in Devanagari which is an alphabetic language , it would be : राजा ख़ाता है I Writing in alphabetic script is based on the sounds that come out of out mouth.



Ideographic script records language by assigning a symbol to a concept.

Consider a basic sentence : The King eats.

Now if we write it in Egyptian hieroglyph, it would be:

Here the sentence has been constructed by joining the symbol of King and eat

King:

Eat:

is:

Lookup Egyptian hieroglyphs in Hieroglyphs.net's dictionary

If we are able to decipher an ideographic script, we still won't be able to know which language was spoken in that period.

Oh!
So you guys think that symbol has no importance??
The Harappan Heritage and the Aryan Problem | Michel Danino - Academia.edu

"Harappan art is disappointingly scanty and restrained,we must admit. Yet it is noteworthy that most of these few forms didsurvive. The Harappan “endlessknot” is found all over India (in rangoli designs for example) and also in inscriptions (Fig. 11, Sarkar &Pande 1999: 128). Similarly symbols like the svastika, thesun, the chakra, the cross, etc. are common both inHarappan symbolism and later Indian iconography. Even the mysterious ritual stand, placed in front of the equally mysterious unicorn, appears on Sangam coins (in front of a horse). Motifs commonly used on pottery such as thepeacocks, fish, etc. also lived on. The Harappans revered trees, as shown by numerous depictions of trees growingfrom a low platform, a frequent symbol on coins from Mauryan times onward."


That symbol was used by Michel Danino and RS Bhist to show similarities between the SSC and present Indian culture. I'm sure those men who excavated the SSC sites 've more knowledge than you and me.

Unless someone makes that case that each and everyone who was living in Sindhu-Saraswati civilization died, it is natural for symbols to appear in future inscriptions.

When a civilization withers away, it is religious symbols which have highest chance to persevere, but as I explained before, due to lack of alphabetical script, these symbols would not provide us with any definitive conclusions. They may be due to Southward movement of people living in Indus-Sarasvati civilization, or they may have found their way into Aryan iconography due to assimilation of people living that civilization, or that symbol may be old enough that it is universal like Swastika.

 

[Soulspeek]

Heheheee.....Your maps looks like a duplicate of ISIS map.

And yes, how wonderfully you yellowed out the Pakistan region keeping in mind not to even touch India boundary!

FRAUD ALERT !

All this is just rubbish. The Wikipedia articles are open source and the Hindutwa Historians just change the articles to suit the forged history. they either donb't bother with links or if they do it will be some dubious Indian link.

We all know the precursor to the Harappan Civilization were sites west of Indus in Balochistan going into Iran and all the way north to Turkmenistan. All of sudden we have had this rubbish report come out which flies in the face of everything thus far. Of course it does help to bring IVC more toward Ganga. By end of this decade IVC will have shifted to new sites somewhere east of Delhi. Boys make sure on the way east you do not overdo it and trip into Bangladesh. This is bizzare.

Against let us remind ourselves of the past frauds click: HORSEPLAY IN HARAPPA

This just shows the desperation by Gangalanders that they are having collective hallucigenic orgies.

* I suspect the people who are behind this know this rubbish will be exposed but by that time they will have screamed to whole world. Then when it is disproved nobody will take notice of this and the Gangalaanders will have been successful in creating impression in the wider world that will persist.

The terrible reality for Indian's is most of the core IVC sites are in Pakistan and the precursor sites are even further away in west Pakistan, iran and Turkmenistan. Most of India has nothingh to show for in the ancient world. In fact it was even beyond the limit of the knoiwn world maybe that is why alexander men refused to go any further. It was only when they settled in Ancient Pakistan did they over time discover the Ganges India that later Greeks wrote about.

 

[Soulspeek]

Similarities of Brahui with Dravidian Languages:

English - Brabui - Dravidian
Come - banning- banni(ka)
Blood- dittir- nettar
Mouth-ba- bai/vai
Eye-xal-kan
Two-ir- irandu
Three-musi-mun/mur
Ear-Xaf-Kad/kivi
Water-Dir-Niru
Worm-Pu-pulu/puzhu
Bow-bil-vil/bil
Milk-palh-pal
Scorpion-tel-telu/chelu
Son-maxh-maga