Hangor Class Submarine Project | Updates & Discussions

[Inception-06]

Indeed. One other possibility is that the PN is 'greasing the wheels' in Germany by saying, "okay, we'll buy a few Type 214s, but in return, we need you to release the engines for the Chinese subs." Interestingly, when we revived the submarine program in 2015, we didn't take the Germans up despite them clearing a loan for the 3 original Type 214s back in 2009. That might have stung Berlin.

Germans refused to sell us submarines in past so why they should change their minds now ?

 

[Luosifen]

You may as well take those billions you'd pay Germany for off-the-shelf product and co-develop an engine optimized for Indian Ocean conditions with Shaanxi Diesel (http://www.shsxd.com/en/) or another Chinese company, that way you'd own the part of the IP and can do your own exports and earn back that investment.

 

[[--Leo--]]

are we getting the engines or not?

 

[Great Janjua]

Pakistan should have expected this beforehand. Another saga in our defence procurements.

 

[Areesh]

are we getting the engines or not?

Obviously we are getting engines

If Chinese can make and deploy engines for South China Sea then why can't they do it for Arabian sea with some tweaks and changes? They have enough experience and strong R&D for that

 

[Rafi]

We will receive the subs, that is a guarantee

 

[Great Janjua]

We will receive the subs, that is a guarantee

That is a no brainer but will there be any engines?. it's a spooky paradox.

 

[DrWatson775]

As I understand it the Germans do not want to transfer engines to Chinese Defence Industry or in short they dont want to transfer the engines to China. They may have agreed to this before but dont want to do this now.

The question is can the completed subs come to Karachi for engine installation; only way this can happen if they come with a Chinese engine and this is then changed. But the Germans may come up with another excuse to withhold the engines then.

 

[Yasser76]

Germans must of given us assurances on these engines then backed out last minute, must of been for a major reason as this will damage their credibility as arms suppliers. Anyway, I say f**k'em, eventually China, South Korea and Turkey will be producing world class sub engines, just that we need those Hangors asap

 

[GriffinsRule]

Seems like PN didn't have all their Is dotted and Ts crossed.
Alternative would be to have all the subs built in Pakistan.
Sheds light on why the Chinese were willing to have PN train on their own sub in the interim now.

 

[PakFactor]

Seems like PN didn't have all their Is dotted and Ts crossed.
Alternative would be to have all the subs built in Pakistan.
Sheds light on why the Chinese were willing to have PN train on their own sub in the interim now.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Question the Hangors going being upgraded they sitting on dry dock unusable until an engine is found?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Seems like PN didn't have all their Is dotted and Ts crossed.
Alternative would be to have all the subs built in Pakistan.
Sheds light on why the Chinese were willing to have PN train on their own sub in the interim now.

It's a lesson on why we need to invest in critical industries (like engines). We can't take any supplier for granted. It's not so much about "reinventing the wheel" but "making sure we have a wheel, no matter what." It may take 20, 30, or 50 years, but better to start now than to not have an option. In this case, we literally ran into a "no option" scenario. We could not have done more except to basically have our own engine.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Question the Hangors going being upgraded they sitting on dry dock unusable until an engine is found?

tbh I don't know. Based on Gen. Bajwa's statements, it seems that's the case. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the PN simply goes with the engines the Chinese do have and stick with it until the better alternative is ready. By that point, the PN can run the subs through a mid-life-update.

 

[Dreamer.]

It's a lesson on why we need to invest in critical industries (like engines). We can't take any supplier for granted. It's not so much about "reinventing the wheel" but "making sure we have a wheel, no matter what." It may take 20, 30, or 50 years, but better to start now than to not have an option. In this case, we literally ran into a "no option" scenario. We could not have done more except to basically have our own engine.

Absolutely correct. No matter how long it takes, but we'll never get there if we don't start! In that respect I think muslim countries need to pool their resources aswell. If only there was such a thing as unity among our ranks....whihc sadly doesn't exist. Still countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia could do something if they cooperate at some level. I just feel that if a such a bloc could just start then other countries may eventually join. It doesn't have to be a political one and especially not overly overt but could start with some joint ventures or scientific/technological cooperation.

Regarding engines for submarines, if the chinese ones aren't suitable for arabian sea then what about russians? Don't they have the requisite technology ? In the new geopolitical scenario couldn't the chinese manage a lot of technology transfer from the russians to improve their own engines?

I mean don't the indians use russian submarines with russian engines? What engines do they use in their locally build submarines?

 

[Yasser76]

Looks like it was not just us the Germans screwed over, Thai is backing out of the deal for the same Subs. Unsure how far the line we are with the manufacturing of our subs, but if China cannot physically deliver them due to an embargo on China itself, looks like we may well be able to just buy German subs instead.

Choices for conventional powered subs are limited outside of China.

Sweden
France
Spain
South Korea
Turkey
Germany

All of the above are suseptible to US pressure or will require German engines too, we may well be very screwed here chaps.

Decision on submarine deal only after talks, says Navy chief

The Royal Thai Navy is expected to make a decision on the Chinese submarine deal by the end of this month.

www.nationthailand.com

 

[Yasser76]

No need to waste money if our generals remain slave to America

Are you going to contribute anything meaningful on this forum?