HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[he-man]

Tejas MK2 design phase complete , second Naval Lca Soon : DRDO | idrw.org

Again for what?
Naval lca is uber waste of resources,on the other hand mk2 is necessary for us

 

[sancho]

Again for what?
Naval lca is uber waste of resources,on the other hand mk2 is necessary for us

Especially with the recently mentioned timeline:

- LCA MK2 first flight 2017
- LCA MK2 production start 2019
- production of N-LCA MK2 only beyond 2019
- AMCA first flight 2020
- possible AMCA production start ~2025?

So if they would develop AMCA as a carrier fighter right away, IN could get a medium class 5th gen fighter just 5 to 6 years after N-LCA would be available. If they focus on commonality to FGFA's techs and systems, they could even get it ready faster, which makes N-LCA totally useless!

Best option remains:

- N-LCA MK1 tech demonstrator (for indigenous naval R&D)
- additional Mig 29K to provide Vikramaditya and IAC1 at least 30 x fighters as a cost-effective stop gap
- indigenous AESA + Kaveri engine for upgraded Mig 29Ks
- AMCA carrier fighter, developed for CATOBAR and STOBAR operations on Vikramaditya, IAC1 and 2 in large numbers!!!

LCA for IAF, AMCA for IN !!!

 

[rockstarIN]

@sancho since the thrust level of RD-33 and Kaveri is almost same (though difference in weight and size, can't we at least use Kaveri for a twin engine AMCA or integrate into Mig-29k? (Kaveri as the current configuration?)

 

[sancho]

@sancho since the thrust level of RD-33 and Kaveri is almost same (though difference in weight and size, can't we at least use Kaveri for a twin engine AMCA or integrate into Mig-29k? (Kaveri as the current configuration?)

No for AMCA, yes for Mig 29K, if we can make Kaveri more mature and upgrade the AB thrust a little more (important for ski-jump take off). For AMCA the changes needed are far higher, SC capability, TVC, around 100kN AB thrust, at least 65kN dry...and that is not achivable on our own at the moment. Sadly however we tent to give more importance on integrating an indigenous engine on an indigenous fighter, for PR reasons, while it would help our forces far more to replace Russian engines with an indigenous alternative, even if the platform is "only" the Mig 29K.

 

[rockstarIN]

No for AMCA, yes for Mig 29K, if we can make Kaveri more mature and upgrade the AB thrust a little more (important for ski-jump take off). For AMCA the changes needed are far higher, SC capability, TVC, around 100kN AB thrust, at least 65kN dry...and that is not achivable on our own at the moment. Sadly however we tent to give more importance on integrating an indigenous engine on an indigenous fighter, for PR reasons, while it would help our forces far more to replace Russian engines with an indigenous alternative, even if the platform is "only" the Mig 29K.

The size /weight difference will not be a bottleneck for Kaveri in current configuration?

 

[sancho]

The size /weight difference will not be a bottleneck for Kaveri in current configuration?

According to the reports from last year, there are plans to test the Kaveri on a Russian Mig 29 this year, which means either size is no issue, or the changes are minor issues. If the dry thrust of Kaveri is around the 52kN as the goal was, it should counter the higher weight compared to the RD33.

 

[Abingdonboy]

According to the reports from last year, there are plans to test the Kaveri on a Russian Mig 29 this year, which means either size is no issue, or the changes are minor issues. If the dry thrust of Kaveri is around the 52kN as the goal was, it should counter the higher weight compared to the RD33.

Any ideas on the fuel efficiency, service life, cost of the Kaveri vs the RD 33-MK?No doubt the Kaveri on the IN's MIG-29Ks would be an awesome achievement but the general rule of inducting new pieces of kit is that it is better than what it is replacing.I would hate to see the Kaveri be inducted purely as a PR exercise and be inferior in certain matrixes wrt to the RD-33 this would not only hurt the IN but also the Kaveri project as a whole.

 

[he-man]

Especially with the recently mentioned timeline:

- LCA MK2 first flight 2017
- LCA MK2 production start 2019
- production of N-LCA MK2 only beyond 2019
- AMCA first flight 2020
- possible AMCA production start ~2025?

So if they would develop AMCA as a carrier fighter right away, IN could get a medium class 5th gen fighter just 5 to 6 years after N-LCA would be available. If they focus on commonality to FGFA's techs and systems, they could even get it ready faster, which makes N-LCA totally useless!

Best option remains:

- N-LCA MK1 tech demonstrator (for indigenous naval R&D)
- additional Mig 29K to provide Vikramaditya and IAC1 at least 30 x fighters as a cost-effective stop gap
- indigenous AESA + Kaveri engine for upgraded Mig 29Ks
- AMCA carrier fighter, developed for CATOBAR and STOBAR operations on Vikramaditya, IAC1 and 2 in large numbers!!!

LCA for IAF, AMCA for IN !!!

U are right but unfortunately our planning is the pinnacle of stupidity.

Amca by all accounts and reports coming is more or less dead in the forseable future at least.also we don't have enough money to pursue mk2 along with amca.

Best idea now is to allocate huge resources(by huge I mean huge)on

1)aesa,indigenous and not some modification or off shelf 2052 or something similar

2)engine-start another engine with better and refined design as soon as possible.
Keep working on kaveri

3)critical subsystems like irst,pods and jammers.

4)software at least should be totally indian.

5)start designing chips based on ARM architecture to be used in mission computers,radars etc.we lack chip fabrication plants but can pay taiwanese or other south korean cos to manufacture these for us!

6)start privatisation of HAL

 

[he-man]

Especially with the recently mentioned timeline:

- LCA MK2 first flight 2017
- LCA MK2 production start 2019
- production of N-LCA MK2 only beyond 2019
- AMCA first flight 2020
- possible AMCA production start ~2025?

So if they would develop AMCA as a carrier fighter right away, IN could get a medium class 5th gen fighter just 5 to 6 years after N-LCA would be available. If they focus on commonality to FGFA's techs and systems, they could even get it ready faster, which makes N-LCA totally useless!

Best option remains:

- N-LCA MK1 tech demonstrator (for indigenous naval R&D)
- additional Mig 29K to provide Vikramaditya and IAC1 at least 30 x fighters as a cost-effective stop gap
- indigenous AESA + Kaveri engine for upgraded Mig 29Ks
- AMCA carrier fighter, developed for CATOBAR and STOBAR operations on Vikramaditya, IAC1 and 2 in large numbers!!!

LCA for IAF, AMCA for IN !!!

 

[he-man]

Any ideas on the fuel efficiency, service life, cost of the Kaveri vs the RD 33-MK?No doubt the Kaveri on the IN's MIG-29Ks would be an awesome achievement but the general rule of inducting new pieces of kit is that is is better than what it is replacing.I could hate to see the Kaveri be inducted purely as a PR exercise and be inferior in certain matrixes tot he RD-33 this would not only hurt the IN but also the Kaveri project as a whole.

I mean why are we believing hal on kaveri?

If the engine is good(i doubt it) then we will see,no need to speculate

 

[Abingdonboy]

I mean why are we believing hal on kaveri?

If the engine is good(i doubt it) then we will see,no need to speculate

YAWN.....do you ever have anything useful to contribute?

 

[he-man]

YAWN.....do you ever have anything useful to contribute?

At least not speculating something impossible like u

There is a limit to being a fanboy

 

[Agent_47]

@sancho Can We develop a fighter for botj CATOBAR and STOBAR operations ? Is there any current examples? What will be the differences?

 

[Joe Shearer]

The problem with u guys is u think we don't know how hal or drdo works which sadly is not the case.

I do have first hand info on how things are done there.

Really? Employee perhaps? Or just based on a pair of good binoculars and a strategic location near the HAL airport?

And for ur info I have contributed my fair share on this forum regarding equipment of su-30,35,mig-29k,rafale etc so yeah I do know what I am saying.

And for your information, nobody talked about how much you had posted, presumably that being your idea of a contribution. The comment was about stereotyped views and prejudices.

The problem lies in people who think hal/drdo can improve.without privatisation nothing is gonna change.its the same situation with govt hospital,try visiting one to diff it from private one.

And lastly we are losing our talented ppl from hal/drdo due to payscale related issues,that needs fixing too.

So your visits to government hospitals have been downers, therefore public sector will have to be privatised?

Tell me, since you are an expert on the subject, which private sector enterprise spends even a fraction of the public sector on design and development, forget about research and development?

 

[Echo_419]

@Sergi and @sandy_3126 , Actually I came to know about the number from another DF (idf to be precise). And my friend works in Koraput. No, he does not know about full strength of HAL. But what he said is this.

Recently due to some policy the ITI technicians gets to "work" overtime and take pay. Here work means no work. Some bachelor ITIs (foreman, Technicians etc.) even take there tooth brush along to the factory and stay there overnight and claim payment doing nothing. Engineers cannot do that.

The promotions are judged by the HR Dept from Bangalore. Even if you are worthy and your boss flavors you, he can do nothing. But in the event of any breakdown you will be called who know how to fix, not the person who got promoted.

There are seniors (I would not mind calling them quota) who knows nothing, but will argue for ego sake. For example one said there is no starter in 400 volt category, only 220 volt. Another said they have worked with more that 1 Power factor. Many would be seen pacing around from one block to another with some file with them as if they are working.

And about Indigenistaion of Sukhoi, the less said is better!!. The cost of Sukhoi imported is far less than what is the cost here, because of the above factor. As many as 20% of the work force just loiter around, busy planning how to get extra payment from OT, Canteen and other things.

I read from idf that Dassault has got only 11000 work force out of which 3400 are dedicated for Rafale. I don't know the truth, bu if that is true then....

Now I admit that I don't know much about these defense & stuff like you do
But these are policy things you are talking about only a serious govy can try to reform these PSUs