rockstarIN
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A good video
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HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions
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A good video
Sorry to deviate, but, what's the maximum flight speed achieved on the tejas with the f404 engines? By how much is it expected to go up after the GE F414 gets installed?
Realistically speaking, what role would the iaf use it in ? and How does it compare to the Jf-17 And f-16 blk52 used by the paf , with special emphasis on bvr capability.?
Realistically speaking, what role would the iaf use it in ? and How does it compare to the Jf-17 And f-16 blk52 used by the paf , with special emphasis on bvr capability.?
Lord Of Gondor
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The current safe maximum speed achieved is around Mach 1.8 at high altitude and might go up to mach 2.0 for the FOC obtained Tejas Mark 2(due to aerodynamic refinements et all)
IAF would use the Mark 1 as Trainers(majorly) and as interceptors(with some A2G capabilities) and the Mark two would be a all out Multi role aircraft and we might even see them replace MiG21's at Srinagar AFB(FOB's)
Purely my ignorant opinions:-(Not tryin' to measure P**** lengths')
Individually speaking,the Tejas Mark 1 might have higher availability rate compared to the JF(Russian Engines....a bit modified than the ones on our MiG29 SMT) and it might have similar availability rates compared to the Falcon.But the falcon has better A2G and A2A capabilities(Aim 120 C5,AGM 65 Maverick and JDAM's) and it has better EW suites and the V9 of the AN/APG 68 RADAR has better range and can operate in hostile EW environments,while the info on the MMR Hybrid on board the LSP3 and others is still scarce!
Windjammer
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Tejas won't become fully operational before 2013
NEW DELHI: The largely homegrown Tejas fighter is still to fight its way out of the doldrums. The jet will not become fully-operational anytime before 2013, a full three decades after the LCA (light combat aircraft) project was first sanctioned in 1983.
IAF chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, responding to questions on Monday, remarked the Tejas LCA's operational clearance had been delayed by almost a year, without elaborating any further.
This indicates the actual induction of the first 40 Tejas jets will begin only towards end-2013 at the earliest, and the first two squadrons will be up and running at the Sulur airbase (Tamil Nadu) only by 2015 or so.
As per revised timelines drawn up after several cost and time-overruns, Tejas was to get the initial operational clearance (IOC) in December 2010, which basically signifies the aircraft is fully airworthy.
This was to be followed by an "intermediate clearance stage'' by December 2011. And finally, the fighter was to get the final operational clearance (FOC), when all weapon and other systems are fully-integrated into the platform, by December 2012.
Defence ministry sources on Tuesday admitted there had been slippages in the intermediate clearance stage for the lightweight, multi-role fighter after it got the IOC last January. "It will not be possible before May-June 2012 now, which in turn is likely to delay the FOC beyond December 2012. The LCA prototypes could not fly much over the last four-five months due to some technical reasons as well as monsoons,'' said a source.
DRDO, however, contends Tejas, which has "all the features of a fourth-generation fighter'', will cross the FOC barrier as planned. "Certification is a long-drawn process. It does not mean there are delays. We are very hopeful Tejas will get the FOC in December 2012,'' said a senior DRDO official.
India certainly needs to develop its own advanced weapon systems like fighters, instead of being yoked to foreign imports which make it strategically vulnerable. But the LCA project underlines the fact that a complete rethink is needed on how to run critical indigenous defence projects.
Its overall developmental cost, including the naval variant and trainer as well as the Kaveri engine, for instance, will go up to Rs 17,269 crore by 2018 from the initial Rs 560 crore earmarked for it in 1983. With each Tejas to cost around Rs 200 crore over and above this, India will eventually end up spending well over Rs 25,000 crore on the programme.
Moreover, Tejas is still only around 60% indigenous. The fighter, for instance, is powered by American GE engines, with the indigenous Kaveri engine failing to pass muster for it despite Rs 2,839 crore being spent on it since 1989.
India has inked a $822 million contract for 99 General Electric's F-414 engines, with an option to go for another 49 engines at a later stage, to power the Tejas Mark-II version. While the first 20 Tejas will be powered by GE-404 engines, the next six Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each) will have the new more powerful GE F-414 engines.
Tejas won't become fully operational before 2013 - Times Of India
NEW DELHI: The largely homegrown Tejas fighter is still to fight its way out of the doldrums. The jet will not become fully-operational anytime before 2013, a full three decades after the LCA (light combat aircraft) project was first sanctioned in 1983.
IAF chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, responding to questions on Monday, remarked the Tejas LCA's operational clearance had been delayed by almost a year, without elaborating any further.
This indicates the actual induction of the first 40 Tejas jets will begin only towards end-2013 at the earliest, and the first two squadrons will be up and running at the Sulur airbase (Tamil Nadu) only by 2015 or so.
As per revised timelines drawn up after several cost and time-overruns, Tejas was to get the initial operational clearance (IOC) in December 2010, which basically signifies the aircraft is fully airworthy.
This was to be followed by an "intermediate clearance stage'' by December 2011. And finally, the fighter was to get the final operational clearance (FOC), when all weapon and other systems are fully-integrated into the platform, by December 2012.
Defence ministry sources on Tuesday admitted there had been slippages in the intermediate clearance stage for the lightweight, multi-role fighter after it got the IOC last January. "It will not be possible before May-June 2012 now, which in turn is likely to delay the FOC beyond December 2012. The LCA prototypes could not fly much over the last four-five months due to some technical reasons as well as monsoons,'' said a source.
DRDO, however, contends Tejas, which has "all the features of a fourth-generation fighter'', will cross the FOC barrier as planned. "Certification is a long-drawn process. It does not mean there are delays. We are very hopeful Tejas will get the FOC in December 2012,'' said a senior DRDO official.
India certainly needs to develop its own advanced weapon systems like fighters, instead of being yoked to foreign imports which make it strategically vulnerable. But the LCA project underlines the fact that a complete rethink is needed on how to run critical indigenous defence projects.
Its overall developmental cost, including the naval variant and trainer as well as the Kaveri engine, for instance, will go up to Rs 17,269 crore by 2018 from the initial Rs 560 crore earmarked for it in 1983. With each Tejas to cost around Rs 200 crore over and above this, India will eventually end up spending well over Rs 25,000 crore on the programme.
Moreover, Tejas is still only around 60% indigenous. The fighter, for instance, is powered by American GE engines, with the indigenous Kaveri engine failing to pass muster for it despite Rs 2,839 crore being spent on it since 1989.
India has inked a $822 million contract for 99 General Electric's F-414 engines, with an option to go for another 49 engines at a later stage, to power the Tejas Mark-II version. While the first 20 Tejas will be powered by GE-404 engines, the next six Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each) will have the new more powerful GE F-414 engines.
Tejas won't become fully operational before 2013 - Times Of India
Storm Force
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Regardless of COST and timeframe overruns THIS PROJECT HAS THE LAID THE FOUNDATIONS for a much larger/broader aviation infrastructure FOR the future for the indian air force and military in general.
This has already seen numerous spin offs like the DHRUV heliciopter & the recent attack chopper the ALH and several UAV and future unmanned combat vehicles in development..
Whether the LCA comes now or in 2 years will make no difference in that IAF will eventually field 7 sqds of this fighter by 2020-2022 around 120 fighters.. From this IAF could get the indian AMCA and many other combat systems.
Windjammer Your 25000 core figure comes to around $5 billion dollars and obviously includes the purchase of 120 fighters and not just deveolpment costs.
This has already seen numerous spin offs like the DHRUV heliciopter & the recent attack chopper the ALH and several UAV and future unmanned combat vehicles in development..
Whether the LCA comes now or in 2 years will make no difference in that IAF will eventually field 7 sqds of this fighter by 2020-2022 around 120 fighters.. From this IAF could get the indian AMCA and many other combat systems.
Windjammer Your 25000 core figure comes to around $5 billion dollars and obviously includes the purchase of 120 fighters and not just deveolpment costs.
The current safe maximum speed achieved is around Mach 1.8 at high altitude and might go up to mach 2.0 for the FOC obtained Tejas Mark 2(due to aerodynamic refinements et all)
IAF would use the Mark 1 as Trainers(majorly) and as interceptors(with some A2G capabilities) and the Mark two would be a all out Multi role aircraft and we might even see them replace MiG21's at Srinagar AFB(FOB's)
Purely my ignorant opinions:-(Not tryin' to measure P**** lengths')
Individually speaking,the Tejas Mark 1 might have higher availability rate compared to the JF(Russian Engines....a bit modified than the ones on our MiG29 SMT) and it might have similar availability rates compared to the Falcon.But the falcon has better A2G and A2A capabilities(Aim 120 C5,AGM 65 Maverick and JDAM's) and it has better EW suites and the V9 of the AN/APG 68 RADAR has better range and can operate in hostile EW environments,while the info on the MMR Hybrid on board the LSP3 and others is still scarce!
Thanks. Would you happen to have a link for the 1.8 mach though?. All i've found on the net is 1.6 methinks
Lord Of Gondor
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I stand corrected!!!
The max safe speed is Mach 1.6
Tejas - Specifications - Leading Particulars and Performance
Apparently, India took delivery of some elta el/m-2052 aesa radars in 2009 for the lca. This would mean that we already have AESA tech on our hands. DOes anyone have any intel on the detection range for the aforementioned equipment?
rockstarIN
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LCA-Tejas has completed 1712 Test Flights successfully. (30-Sep-2011).
* (TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-208,PV3-301,LSP1-67,LSP2-188,PV5-36,LSP3-43,LSP4-41,LSP5-48)
LCA-Tejas has completed 1686 Test Flights successfully. (22-Sep-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-208,PV3-295,LSP1-67,LSP2-178,PV5-36,LSP3-43,LSP4-41,LSP5-38)
26 flights in 8 days
* (TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-208,PV3-301,LSP1-67,LSP2-188,PV5-36,LSP3-43,LSP4-41,LSP5-48)
LCA-Tejas has completed 1686 Test Flights successfully. (22-Sep-2011).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-208,PV3-295,LSP1-67,LSP2-178,PV5-36,LSP3-43,LSP4-41,LSP5-38)
26 flights in 8 days
Black Widow
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Thanks for Information
Engine is not piece of cake, we are working on it, Insha allah one day We will incorporate Indian Engine in LCA...
Cost overrun is common in Development. If you search little more you can see the cost overrun for F35, F22, F18 and many other programs. (I cant comment on RUssian and chinese programs, coz these 2 countries never disclosed cost information.)
Tejas id 100% indigenous. I never read some one saying Grippen is n% indigenous...
guys, here's the trade register for indo-israel arms sales 2007-2010......
proves that elta el/m-2052 is indeed the radar on the lca
---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------
Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 2007 to 2010
Note: The ‘No. delivered/produced’ and the ‘Year(s) of deliveries’ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The ‘Comments’ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/at_data.html>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 08 October 2011
Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments
Israel
R: India (25) EL/M-2022 MP aircraft radar (2000) 2001-2010 (25) For 28 Do-228MP MP aircraft from FRG; fitted up to 4 years after aircraft delivered
(400) Barak-1 SAM (2002) 2005-2010 (200) For Delhi and Kolkata destroyers and probably for Shivalik and Project-28 frigates
(8) EL/M-2238 STAR Air search radar (2002) 2004-2007 (2) For 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers produced in India and for modernization of 5 Kashin-2 (Rajput) destroyers
16 EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar (2003) 2004-2007 (7) For 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers and 3 Brahmaputra frigates produced in India and modernization of 5 Kashin-2 (Rajput) destroyers and 2 Godavari frigates; for use with Barak SAM
(8) EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar (2003) For Barak SAM on 4 Project-28 frigates produced in India; status uncertain
3 EL/M-2075 Phalcon AEW&C system 2004 2009-2010 2 Part of $1.1 b deal (incl $350 m advance payment); for 3 A-50EhI AEW&C aircraft from Uzbekistan (ordered via Russia and fitted with AEW&C system in Israel); delivery 2009-2011
48 EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar 2004 Part of deal worth $104 m for modernization of 48 Indian ZSU-23-4 SPAAG; designation uncertain; delivery 2011
20 Derby BVRAAM 2005 2009-2010 (10) $25 m deal; for modernized Sea Harrier combat aircraft
(9) EL/M-2032 Aircraft radar 2005 2008-2009 2 Part INR4.8-6.4 b ($110-137 m) deal; for modernization of 9 Sea Harrier combat aircraft
(16) Heron UAV (2005) 2006-2007 (16) Possibly $200-266 m deal; no. could be up to 50
(100) Python-4 BVRAAM (2005) 2007 (100)
3 EL/M-2248 MF-STAR Multifuntion radar 2006 $200 m deal; for 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers produced in India
1 EL/M-2070 AGS radar (2007) 2009 1 For RISAT-2 reconnaissance satellite produced in India
(8) Litening Aircraft EO system (2007) 2008 (8) Litening-3 version; for Su-30 combat aircraft
. . Litening Aircraft EO system 2007 For Tejas (LCA) combat aircraft
. . Derby BVRAAM (2008) For SPYDER SAM systems
4 EL/M-2083 APR Air search radar 2008
. . Python-5 BVRAAM 2008 Part of INR1800 crore deal; for SPYDER SAM system
EL/M-2052 Aircraft radar (2009) For Tejas (LCA) combat aircraft produced in India; bought after Indian development of radar delayed
(2) EL/M-2083 APR Air search radar 2009 For coastal surveillance; bought in reaction to 2008 terrorist attack in Mumbai
Griffin Guided bomb 2009
Harop SSM 2009 Delivery from 2011
(16) Heron UAV (2009) INR11.2 b ($239 m) deal
47 EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar 2010 For modernization of 47 Indian ZSU-23-4 SPAAG; designation uncertain
2 Heron UAV 2010 INR7 b ($152 m) deal
L: India 18 SPYDER-MR Mobile SAM system 2008 $260 m 'LLQRM' programme; delivery probably 2011-2013
2000 Barak-8 SAM 2009 Part of $1.4 b deal; incl for 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers and 4 Project-28 frigates and for land-based Barak SAM systems
(18) Barak-8 SAM system (2009) Part of $1.4 b deal; Indian designation Barak-NG or Barak-2
Barak-8ER SAM (2009) Part of $1.4 b deal; for ship-based and land-based Barak SAM systems
proves that elta el/m-2052 is indeed the radar on the lca
---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------
Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 2007 to 2010
Note: The ‘No. delivered/produced’ and the ‘Year(s) of deliveries’ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The ‘Comments’ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/at_data.html>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 08 October 2011
Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments
Israel
R: India (25) EL/M-2022 MP aircraft radar (2000) 2001-2010 (25) For 28 Do-228MP MP aircraft from FRG; fitted up to 4 years after aircraft delivered
(400) Barak-1 SAM (2002) 2005-2010 (200) For Delhi and Kolkata destroyers and probably for Shivalik and Project-28 frigates
(8) EL/M-2238 STAR Air search radar (2002) 2004-2007 (2) For 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers produced in India and for modernization of 5 Kashin-2 (Rajput) destroyers
16 EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar (2003) 2004-2007 (7) For 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers and 3 Brahmaputra frigates produced in India and modernization of 5 Kashin-2 (Rajput) destroyers and 2 Godavari frigates; for use with Barak SAM
(8) EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar (2003) For Barak SAM on 4 Project-28 frigates produced in India; status uncertain
3 EL/M-2075 Phalcon AEW&C system 2004 2009-2010 2 Part of $1.1 b deal (incl $350 m advance payment); for 3 A-50EhI AEW&C aircraft from Uzbekistan (ordered via Russia and fitted with AEW&C system in Israel); delivery 2009-2011
48 EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar 2004 Part of deal worth $104 m for modernization of 48 Indian ZSU-23-4 SPAAG; designation uncertain; delivery 2011
20 Derby BVRAAM 2005 2009-2010 (10) $25 m deal; for modernized Sea Harrier combat aircraft
(9) EL/M-2032 Aircraft radar 2005 2008-2009 2 Part INR4.8-6.4 b ($110-137 m) deal; for modernization of 9 Sea Harrier combat aircraft
(16) Heron UAV (2005) 2006-2007 (16) Possibly $200-266 m deal; no. could be up to 50
(100) Python-4 BVRAAM (2005) 2007 (100)
3 EL/M-2248 MF-STAR Multifuntion radar 2006 $200 m deal; for 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers produced in India
1 EL/M-2070 AGS radar (2007) 2009 1 For RISAT-2 reconnaissance satellite produced in India
(8) Litening Aircraft EO system (2007) 2008 (8) Litening-3 version; for Su-30 combat aircraft
. . Litening Aircraft EO system 2007 For Tejas (LCA) combat aircraft
. . Derby BVRAAM (2008) For SPYDER SAM systems
4 EL/M-2083 APR Air search radar 2008
. . Python-5 BVRAAM 2008 Part of INR1800 crore deal; for SPYDER SAM system
EL/M-2052 Aircraft radar (2009) For Tejas (LCA) combat aircraft produced in India; bought after Indian development of radar delayed
(2) EL/M-2083 APR Air search radar 2009 For coastal surveillance; bought in reaction to 2008 terrorist attack in Mumbai
Griffin Guided bomb 2009
Harop SSM 2009 Delivery from 2011
(16) Heron UAV (2009) INR11.2 b ($239 m) deal
47 EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar 2010 For modernization of 47 Indian ZSU-23-4 SPAAG; designation uncertain
2 Heron UAV 2010 INR7 b ($152 m) deal
L: India 18 SPYDER-MR Mobile SAM system 2008 $260 m 'LLQRM' programme; delivery probably 2011-2013
2000 Barak-8 SAM 2009 Part of $1.4 b deal; incl for 3 Kolkata (Project-15A) destroyers and 4 Project-28 frigates and for land-based Barak SAM systems
(18) Barak-8 SAM system (2009) Part of $1.4 b deal; Indian designation Barak-NG or Barak-2
Barak-8ER SAM (2009) Part of $1.4 b deal; for ship-based and land-based Barak SAM systems
angeldemon_007
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^^^
I think then US really forced Israel from not giving this radar and that is why this deal is so quite. Also its not new for Israel to not follow what US says. Us only forced them so that their air-crafts will win the MMRCA based on aesa. I mean Rafale or eurofighter with el/m-2052 new lightneing pod will be the best option.
I think then US really forced Israel from not giving this radar and that is why this deal is so quite. Also its not new for Israel to not follow what US says. Us only forced them so that their air-crafts will win the MMRCA based on aesa. I mean Rafale or eurofighter with el/m-2052 new lightneing pod will be the best option.
rockstarIN
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I do not think EL2052 will fit into LCA, its a small fighter.
sancho
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Can you provide the source? Where does the 100 Python 4 come from and which fighter should use them since 2005? Also in mentiones that Indian radar development was delayed, but in that time we were developing our MMR, not AESA, that's why it most likely is talking about the Elta 2032 MMRs we bought for LCA as a stop gap and which are integrated now. The ELTA AESA is not fully developed yet, because it was tested only on some aircrafts, but not integrated in operational fighters AFAIK, so it's doubtful that they can supply us with some of them, especially without US approval.
Any radar can be downsized to be fitted in other fighters, that's why we had the Bars 29 (smaller version of MKIs radar) on offer for Mig 29 upgrade, or why the Zhuk AE is in a bigger version is on offer for MKI now as well. It's only a matter of different diameters and reduced, or incresed number of T/R modules.
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