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This N-LCA prototype uses the GE 404 IN20 engine, while the final fighter versions will be based on the LCA MK2 with the GE 414 INS6



And still it is a mistake to limit the capability of our carriers on a low capable single engine fighter, only IN wants to improve indigenous developments. They could have build this N-LCA TD version for the same reason, but without developing an operational version for carrier service. Indigenous developments, yes, but for the right reasons ! ! !

Well there is a serious reason for that. Our Aircraft carriers were never meant for land strike. They are primarily for fleet defence and what better aircraft to have instead of an LCA? It is cheap to operate and indigenous and the navy never told they will have only the LCA on board....the space will be shared by MiG 29k also.

The initial name of the IAC-1 was ADS which stands for Air Defence Ship. So the LCA will be a good dogfighter on the skies over the fleet giving it enough range and the MiG 29 K will be the strike component and the hi-end of the Indian navy....
 
Well there is a serious reason for that. Our Aircraft carriers were never meant for land strike. They are primarily for fleet defence and what better aircraft to have instead of an LCA? It is cheap to operate and indigenous and the navy never told they will have only the LCA on board....the space will be shared by MiG 29k also.

The initial name of the IAC-1 was ADS which stands for Air Defence Ship. So the LCA will be a good dogfighter on the skies over the fleet giving it enough range and the MiG 29 K will be the strike component and the hi-end of the Indian navy....
The carriers are not meant for strikes (except of the Russian carriers), but the fighters are and even our 2 new carriers will have multi role capable Mig 29Ks right? So be it air defence, anti ship, or strikes on shore based targets, that all is part of their duty and normally must be of N-LCA as well, but from what we see and know so far, that's not going to happen.
I don't care much it it's cheap, or indigenous, but a carrier will have only a very limited air wing, that's why the priority should be on getting the most capable fighters, not the cheapest! For IAF it makes sense to have less capable and cheaper to operate fighters at their lower end, next to MMRCA, MKI, FGFA. The IN carriers on the other side would be way more capable only with Mig 29Ks, because it offers a higher performance than N-LCA, not to forget that it is even likely that they will supplement them with the older Sea Harriers until N-LCA will be available someday and they are not much inferior.
IN Sea Harriers AFAIK uses the same Elta 2032 that this N-LCA prototype uses, just like the same Israeli derby missiles. We could have bought more 2nd hand Sea Harriers from the UK now at cheap rates, but way more capble in the strike / CAS role, because they can already can carry rocket pods, Brimstone ATGMs, 250 & 500Kg Paveway LGBs...:

brimstoneantiarmour8.jpg

harrafghan_tn.jpg



IN even complained that it would have been better to develop a carrier fighter and then re-design it for the air force, instead of what they are doing with LCA to N-LCA now, because it's not a minimum change easy development, especially not with the limited experience of ADA/DRDO/HAL in this area.

Operationally the Mig 29K/Sea Harrier mix would have been better for IN and with indigenous developments in mind, it would have been better if ADA & Co developed this N-LCA MK1 tech demonstrator as a base for carrier fighter developments and then went on for N-AMCA! A NG carrier fighter, fully developed for IN carriers requirments, be it for STOBAR config to replace Sea Harriers and if needed even Mig 29Ks, or in CATOBAR config for IAC 2 if we get catapults from the US.

Would our carriers be more capable?
Would our indigenous industry benefit?
Would LCA development benefit from less delays?
Would AMCA be more useful and reasonable, when developed as a carrier fighter?

YES!

But instead, we want everything at once! Be it a fighter fully developed by our own with all the critical parts developed at the same time, that also "must" been used by the air force and the navy, although it doesn't make an operational sense and to top it all, we even start a NG development with the same silly aims (AMCA for IAF and IN, fully multi role...) and based on the same overestimations even before the first development is finished.
In this case, IN should have used Mig 29Ks and Sea Harriers as stop gap options, to develop something they really wanted and according to their requirments, to make IN carriers really capable, instead of saying that they have to commitment towards indigenisation, because they don't help themself and not LCA with their side demands and requirments, besides those of IAF.
 
The carriers are not meant for strikes (except of the Russian carriers), but the fighters are and even our 2 new carriers will have multi role capable Mig 29Ks right? So be it air defence, anti ship, or strikes on shore based targets, that all is part of their duty and normally must be of N-LCA as well, but from what we see and know so far, that's not going to happen.
I don't care much it it's cheap, or indigenous, but a carrier will have only a very limited air wing, that's why the priority should be on getting the most capable fighters, not the cheapest! For IAF it makes sense to have less capable and cheaper to operate fighters at their lower end, next to MMRCA, MKI, FGFA. The IN carriers on the other side would be way more capable only with Mig 29Ks, because it offers a higher performance than N-LCA, not to forget that it is even likely that they will supplement them with the older Sea Harriers until N-LCA will be available someday and they are not much inferior.
IN Sea Harriers AFAIK uses the same Elta 2032 that this N-LCA prototype uses, just like the same Israeli derby missiles. We could have bought more 2nd hand Sea Harriers from the UK now at cheap rates, but way more capble in the strike / CAS role, because they can already can carry rocket pods, Brimstone ATGMs, 250 & 500Kg Paveway LGBs...:

brimstoneantiarmour8.jpg

harrafghan_tn.jpg



IN even complained that it would have been better to develop a carrier fighter and then re-design it for the air force, instead of what they are doing with LCA to N-LCA now, because it's not a minimum change easy development, especially not with the limited experience of ADA/DRDO/HAL in this area.

Operationally the Mig 29K/Sea Harrier mix would have been better for IN and with indigenous developments in mind, it would have been better if ADA & Co developed this N-LCA MK1 tech demonstrator as a base for carrier fighter developments and then went on for N-AMCA! A NG carrier fighter, fully developed for IN carriers requirments, be it for STOBAR config to replace Sea Harriers and if needed even Mig 29Ks, or in CATOBAR config for IAC 2 if we get catapults from the US.

Would our carriers be more capable?
Would our indigenous industry benefit?
Would LCA development benefit from less delays?
Would AMCA be more useful and reasonable, when developed as a carrier fighter?

YES!

But instead, we want everything at once! Be it a fighter fully developed by our own with all the critical parts developed at the same time, that also "must" been used by the air force and the navy, although it doesn't make an operational sense and to top it all, we even start a NG development with the same silly aims (AMCA for IAF and IN, fully multi role...) and based on the same overestimations even before the first development is finished.
In this case, IN should have used Mig 29Ks and Sea Harriers as stop gap options, to develop something they really wanted and according to their requirments, to make IN carriers really capable, instead of saying that they have to commitment towards indigenisation, because they don't help themself and not LCA with their side demands and requirments, besides those of IAF.

Just one question...Are they selling their Harriers? They are selling hell-a-lot of their ships but I dont think they are selling their harriers. Nor are the USMC ready to part with theirs or else we would have bought them a long back. Above all the Harriers are an aircraft designed in the 1960s and they have their own flaws.

Designing a naval aircraft is one of the most difficult tasks as aircrafts from carriers are 'launched' and 'recovered', they dont take off and land as land based aircraft do. So it would be necessary for us to learn about the structural stress and also about the different challenges faced by the aircraft designed by us and things that must not be overlooked in the future design of the aircraft as 'naval' aircraft are a bit tricky. The landing gear, the speed of landing approach are a few things that must actually be taken into account as if the aircraft misses the arrestor hook it must have enough power to take off from the deck again.

Theoretically many things can be done but during practice the whole thing differs. MiG 29k with LCA is the only optional combo right now unless we get the F 35. But I would rate the YAK 141 any day over the Sea Harrier.
 
Just one question...Are they selling their Harriers?

Yes, they offered it for IN before and when they phased out their last carrier, they even offered the carrier on the global market to get at least some money. And it's not about if other fighters are better than Harriers in general, but about the fact that we had experience with them, could induct it very fast and would still be more than useful enough for the roles Gorshkov and IAC 1 are meant to. It would have been a cheap and capable bridge, to develop a real carrier fighter and I don't see why all fighters developed in or with India, have to be used from IAF and IN. LCA/FGFA for IAF, like F16/F15 in USAF and N-AMCA for IN, like F18 for USN. The forces would have got what they wanted, just like the industry as well!

Designing a naval aircraft is one of the most difficult tasks as aircrafts from carriers are 'launched' and 'recovered', they dont take off and land as land based aircraft do. So it would be necessary for us to learn about the structural stress...

That's why we developed the N-LCA MK1 prototype now! It will give ADA/HAL and co the experience to develop a carrier fighter and will be used by IN for training reasons at INS HANSA. There is no need to order up to 60 operational fighters, just to get experience, or to train, tech demonstrators are more than enough.

I simply don't understand why they always want everything at once, which forces us to do mistakes and delaying things, instead of doing on step then another. Moving slowly forward is still better than standing still for a decade or so isn't it? But that's what we did with Kaveri engine for example and by distracting LCA development with N-LCA and now AMCA developments inbetween.
 
Yes, they offered it for IN before and when they phased out their last carrier, they even offered the carrier on the global market to get at least some money. And it's not about if other fighters are better than Harriers in general, but about the fact that we had experience with them, could induct it very fast and would still be more than useful enough for the roles Gorshkov and IAC 1 are meant to. It would have been a cheap and capable bridge, to develop a real carrier fighter and I don't see why all fighters developed in or with India, have to be used from IAF and IN. LCA/FGFA for IAF, like F16/F15 in USAF and N-AMCA for IN, like F18 for USN. The forces would have got what they wanted, just like the industry as well!

I think IN is not happy with Harriers (maintenance savvy) ans some times spare problems with it. May be that is the reason they are going for own systems.
 
I think IN is not happy with Harriers (maintenance savvy) ans some times spare problems with it. May be that is the reason they are going for own systems.

I know, but they aren't happy with N-LCA either and only go for it, because it is an indigenous development. My point is, why go for a less capable N-LCA, instead of using the Harriers as a stop gap (next to new Migs) and develop N-AMCA the way they want it, even if it takes more time?
 
I know, but they aren't happy with N-LCA either and only go for it, because it is an indigenous development. My point is, why go for a less capable N-LCA, instead of using the Harriers as a stop gap (next to new Migs) and develop N-AMCA the way they want it, even if it takes more time?

Sancho.. NAMCA.. you yourself know how much time it will take.. atleast 12-15 years.. by that time equations in Indian ocean will change alot
 
Sancho.. NAMCA.. you yourself know how much time it will take.. atleast 12-15 years.. by that time equations in Indian ocean will change alot

Yes it will take time, but so what? It's not like we need a 2nd carrier fighter as soon as possible right? Mig 29K and additional Sea Harriers would be more than enough for Gorshkov and IAC 1 for the next 10 to 12 years and even IAC 2 (which seems to get a proven carrier fighter for the CATOBAR layout) is will take that much time to be available. So there is no pressure for N-LCA at all, besides the pride of having a indigenous carrier fighter.
 
I know, but they aren't happy with N-LCA either and only go for it, because it is an indigenous development. My point is, why go for a less capable N-LCA, instead of using the Harriers as a stop gap (next to new Migs) and develop N-AMCA the way they want it, even if it takes more time?

N-LCA is better than Harriers any day apart from indigenous part. IN does not want Migs in all her carriers. Anyway harriers will be there for 10-15 N-LCAs came out to replace. I do not know how much time NAMCA will take but IN will obvious look for alternate by this time. May be Rafales for IAC-2.
 
User trials of Light Combat Aircraft to commence by end of year
User trials of Light Combat Aircraft to commence by end of year - Bangalore - DNA
The much-awaited user trials of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) would commence by the end of this year.

The user trials, which will be conducted by the IAF’s Bangalore-based aircraft systems and testing establishment (ASTE), is a prerequisite before the LCA is inducted into the IAF.
These pilots are being deputed to NFTC to get acclimatised with the aircraft, which will be subsequently handed over to ASTE for user evaluation.

The ASTE will be given two LCA aircraft—the Limited Series Production 7 and 8 (LSP 7& 8)—for user trials.

During the user trials, the angle of attack would be increased from the present 20-22 degrees to 26-28 degrees. Similarly, the gravitation (G) limit would be raised from the present 6Gs to 8Gs.

Upon induction into the IAF, the first squadron of the LCA will be raised in Bangalore and then moved to the Sulur air force station near Coimbatore.
 
N-LCA is better than Harriers any day apart from indigenous part.
In A2A yes, in A2G don't think so, especially not without several upgrades in terms of weapon integration, which would make it a useful stop gap, especially alongside the Mig 29Ks, which are better in A2A than both of the earlier.
 
NEW DELHI (PTI): India's ambitious project to develop indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has suffered a setback as the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) for the aircraft was delayed by another year.

"As far as LCA is concerned, there was an initial IOC in January this year. We were supposed to get the IOC (final) by the end of this year. As we see it, there is a delay of almost a year in that," IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne told a press conference here.

The delay in IOC is expected to further affect the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) of the aircraft, which was expected by 2012.

Sources said the delay in IOC has taken place as the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has not been able to complete certain trials of the aircraft.

The extended monsoon this year also affected the trial schedule of the aircraft, they said.
 
NEW DELHI (PTI): India's ambitious project to develop indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has suffered a setback as the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) for the aircraft was delayed by another year.

"As far as LCA is concerned, there was an initial IOC in January this year. We were supposed to get the IOC (final) by the end of this year. As we see it, there is a delay of almost a year in that," IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne told a press conference here.

The delay in IOC is expected to further affect the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) of the aircraft, which was expected by 2012.

Sources said the delay in IOC has taken place as the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has not been able to complete certain trials of the aircraft.

The extended monsoon this year also affected the trial schedule of the aircraft, they said.

i'm confused. i thot lca cleared IOC quite some time back?
what's inital IOC? what's IOC (final)? is it FOC?
 
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