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Featured Greece to Buy 18 Rafale Fighters, Four New Frigates to Boost Defense

Greece will be able to control it's fighters using it's fleet of 4 Swedish AWACS.

and Turkiye has S400 Air Defense Systems with 380km 40N6 Missiles to turn Hellenic Air Force AWACS into crap of metal even over the Greek Mainland



18 or 36 does not make too much of a difference as each Rafale + AWACS + Meteor is far superior to what Turkey has in it's F-16 Block 52+. Yes Turkey will in time integrate it's own AESA radar + BVRAAM but they will not be as good as what the Rafale has by some margin.


upcoming game changer Turkish military power in the next 5 years .....

-- Aselsan GaN based airborne AESA Radar for 163 of CCIP modernized F-16 block/52s
-- 4 Boeing E-7T AEWCs with 600 km Radar
-- 4 HAVASOJ airborne stand off Jammer Aircrafts
-- KORAL and REDET Radar Electronic Warfare Systems can jam Rafale's radar from 150 km away
-- MIUS jet engine powered UCAV
-- Turkiye has developed 65 km GOKDOGAN air to air Missile and RAMJET powered long range air to air missile AKDOGAN .... ( similar to METEOR )

-- 600 km EIRS early warning AESA Radar + 460 km Aselsan IFF Mod5/S long range (friend or foe) Identification System + KEMENT national Tactical Datalink + SIPER high altitude Air Defense System for great network centric warfare and cooperative engagement capabilities

-- 8 Batteries of S-400 Air Defense Systems



and Do you think , are Turks sleeping ?

Greece will have 18 Rafale Jets + METEOR Missiles
on the other hand Turkiye will have capability to produce 12 MIUS UCAVs for per year


MIUS jet engine powered UCAV for network centric BVR combat

-- AESA Radar
-- SATCOM
-- low visibility
-- internal weapons bays for RAMJET powered long range networked air to air missiles AKDOGAN ...( similar to METEOR )
1600169845749.png
 
so Turkiye can destroy Jet Hangars and 18 Rafale Jets in hours ...... and France can not provide more Rafale Jets and SCALP Missiles to Greece even in a few years

and Turkish KORKUT 35mm SPAAG with air burst ammunition + HISAR-O Air Defense System to intercept SCALP Cruise Missiles

even I am not talking about 8 Turkish Frigates armed with hundreds of ESSM missiles to intercept even supersonic Cruise Missiles
Greece can also destroy hangars in hours. France cans upply in a hurry up move some SCALP and some more MICA or Exocet or Hammer, as made for India some weeks ago. Not 1000, not x100, but some x10.

KORKUT 35mm is probably a nice DCA system, but without seeing the target, it is use less. SCALP fly low and stealthy. Your system, as all the other DCA system are too short in range and not able to detect it.

ESSM.... really? It's a old horse system. more short than medium ranged, with mainly the agility to chase fighters, not supersonic cruise missiles. Please.
 
18 Rafale Jets

vs

F-16s with AIM-120C7 and Boeing E7-T AEWC in the Sky
NO.

Compare 18 Rafale + 155 F16 + 40 M2000-5 with 4 R99 awacs
To
200 F-16s with AIM-120C7 (with a usefull range << 120km !), some F4 and Boeing E7-T AEWC.

The game is all but made my friend.
 
MIUS jet engine powered UCAV for network centric BVR combat

-- AESA Radar
-- SATCOM
-- low visibility
-- internal weapons bays for RAMJET powered long range networked air to air missiles AKDOGAN ...( similar to METEOR )
1600169845749.png
looks well !!!
 
Finally, those poor Turkish pilots would get a real challenge now!

In the Six Day War, the Egyptian Air Force had also a superiour fleet with their MiG-21's, MiG-19's, MiG-17's and Su-7's.

But Israel destroyed them all in their hangars.8-)

Turkey can replace the S400 batteries and Koral-jammers to the Aegean coast and can finally put those Rafales to the test.

A lot of knowledge what can be selled to old French colonies in Africa or 'rebels' who are sick of baguettes and bare-feet-wine.:woot:
 
Finally, those poor Turkish pilots would get a real challenge now!

In the Six Day War, the Egyptian Air Force had also a superiour fleet with their MiG-21's, MiG-19's, MiG-17's and Su-7's.

But Israel destroyed them all in their hangars.8-)

Turkey can replace the S400 batteries and Koral-jammers to the Aegean coast and can finally put those Rafales to the test.

A lot of knowledge what can be selled to old French colonies in Africa or 'rebels' who are sick of baguettes and bare-feet-wine.:woot:
The main old french colonie, Algeria, was a Turkish one before. It was the french that ended it.
Please, just give me just one name of a Turkish heritage hospital in Algeria (there are plenty of ex french ones) or just the name of a road built by turkish in Algeria.....
I think in 1830 the Algerian people was sick of Kebab and turkish delight. :pakistan:
 
Western embargo on Turkey means whatever jets and air to air missiles Turkey has is what they have. There won't be any replacements for losses. On the other hand, Greece is upgrading hundreds of its F-16 to F-16E standard which has APG-80 AESA. On top of that, Greece is getting Rafale and F-35 which outclass Turkish F-16C. The only way Turkey can counter Greece is buy Su-35 or Su-57 from Russia for buy JF-17 or J-10C or J-20 from China. Neither option is viable due to Erdogan's strong backing of Muslim succession in Tatarstan and East Turkestan.
 
Greece can also destroy hangars in hours. France cans upply in a hurry up move some SCALP and some more MICA or Exocet or Hammer, as made for India some weeks ago. Not 1000, not x100, but some x10.

Greece can hit only a few Air Bases in Western Turkiye ........ not all Air Bases in Turkiye

Problem is for Greece geopolitic disadvantage .... Greece is small Country but Turkiye is huge

and all Greek Air Bases , Jet hangars , naval ports , Air Defense Systems are in range of great Turkish fire power thousands of TRG-300 , TRLG-230 , J600T , ATACMS , BORA , SOM , SLAM-ER , POPEYE , HARM , JSOW , KGK-LR , SDM , HARPY , KARGI , ATMACA , HARPOON block-II also soon GEZGIN ,AKBABA , KUZGUN , MRASHM and supersonic Cruise Missile


and your SCALP Missiles can be intercepted by ESSM , HISAR-O and KORKUT Systems

but Greece never can stop thousands of Turkish guided MLRS , Ballistic Missiles , long range guided Bombs , anti radiation Missiles/Drones and land-naval-air launched Cruise Missiles


btw Turkish Air to Air Missiles

BOZGOGAN WVR air to air missile ... ( under trials )
GOKDOGAN BVR air to air missile ....( under trials )
AKDOGAN Ramjet powered long range air to air missile .... ( under development )

and Turkish ATMACA anti-ship Missile is superior to American HARPOON and French EXOCET
also 70 km Turkish TRLG-230 laser guided supersonic Missiles can destroy Greek Warships in Aegean
also Turkish supersonic anti-ship Missile and hypersonic anti-ship Ballistic Missile under development


Thanks to great Turkish Defense Industry to protect Turkish People from Bandit Countries or Turkiye would be similar to Iraq,Syria and Libya
 
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KORKUT 35mm is probably a nice DCA system, but without seeing the target, it is use less. SCALP fly low and stealthy. Your system, as all the other DCA system are too short in range and not able to detect it.


SCALP missile has flight altitude of 30 meters , not 3 meters
Turkish SOM missile has flight altitude of 3 meters with terrain hugging capability


1 KORKUT System = 3 x KORKUT 35mm SPAAG with 70km 3D Radar to detect and track SCALP missile and to destroy it with air burst ammunition in range of 4km

also HISAR-O Air Defense System with 120 km Radar can detect and intercept SCALP missiles


so Turkiye will produce enough numbers of KORKUT and HISAR-O Systems to protect S400s and Military Bases from Cruise Missiles
 
NO.

Compare 18 Rafale + 155 F16 + 40 M2000-5 with 4 R99 awacs
To
200 F-16s with AIM-120C7 (with a usefull range << 120km !), some F4 and Boeing E7-T AEWC.

The game is all but made my friend.


its your only aircraft comparison


but in a real conflict , most of Greek F-16s and Rafales will be destroyed even in Jet Hangars

we should add to the list

BORA Tactical Ballistic Missile
SOM and SLAM-ER air launched Cruise Missiles
ATMACA and soon GEZGIN land/naval based Cruise Missiles
S400 and soon SIPER high altitude Air Defense Systems
 
These birds, where they will be, will change everything tor Turkey air force.
No one of the F4 or F16 turkish fighter will be in safety.

Combo Rafale + meteor => No Escape Zone of > 60km
Combo F16 + AMRAAM C7 => No Escape Zone of 25 to 30 km.

The difference is huge !
In order for Turkey To keep up, it will either need to make unauthorized upgrades of its F-16s Or build a medium weight replacement for the F-16. Any other option will leave it vulnerable to foreign sanctions, even if it claims it is using weapons in self defense, similar to what happened to them with the leopard tanks and Germany. The T-FX will take sometime and an interim program may not be a bad idea, similar to south Korea’s non-stealthy KFX before its final Stealthy K-FX is ready. Even for the Turks, the costs would be at least $10-15 Billion to just replace half their fleet with a semi-stealthy fighter if they can keep per unit costs at $50-60 million. Considering their experience and sunk costs in making fuselage parts for the F-35, their industry would love some orders to cover the lost revenue from the F-35 program.

The goal of any interim fighter would have to be to keep it “simple” but modern. A program that can go from the drawing board to first flight in about a year, and production in a few years after that. If Turkey doesn’t either switch to an all T-FX fleet or build some interim fighters, it will remain dependent on foreign suppliers and be vulnerable to foreign sanctions. Turkey could go back and build one of the single engine designs it had tested for the T-FX program. Considering Turkey experience build part of the F-35 Fuselage, it maybe better off building a similar semi-Stealthy conventional layout platform. It will be the best platform to integrate all the sub-Systems under development for the T-FX as well as a lower cost but very modern platform for export to countries like Pakistan looking to replace its Mirage fleet, looking for ToT, and Access to European weapons and sub-systems without buying a European platform but sharing the cost due to economies of scale. Especially if both nations could commit to 150 planes each, the costs would come down and it would help build up both defense industries to modern standards.

Turkey just build the Hurjet, so this would be a natural evolution, and a good stepping stone to the T-FX program. Pakistan too will ultimately need to replace its oldest F-16s and Mirages, before you know it, and a Turkish interim jet maybe the most cost effective option. This would be especially true if Pakistan is blocked from getting any upgrade on its F-16s in a reasonable timeframe.

operating the same jet would also allow Turkey and Pakistan to help each other in the event of war imposed on either nation. From loaning jets to actually sending pilots and planes, Pakistan and Turkey have the potential to become interoperable if they operate a common platform that is sanction-proof.

Also of the conventional design below, if the rail were changed from a “four poster”: twin vertical and twin horizontal at the rear, to a Pelikan tail, it would help in the development of that technology as well per the design recently revealed for project Azm.

View attachment 669609

I think there is little point in an interim fighter as the TF-X will be ready by around 2030.
It will take at least as long to get any interim fighter ready in the meantime which may not be any better than Rafale.

Once TF-X is ready then Turkey can gain absolute air superiority again in the region.
 
I think there is little point in an interim fighter as the TF-X will be ready by around 2030.
It will take at least as long to get any interim fighter ready in the meantime which may not be any better than Rafale.

Once TF-X is ready then Turkey can gain absolute air superiority again in the region.

The purpose for an interim fighter would be to be the more affordable lower end of the Air Force, ditching the F-16 for a local product, and preventing sanctions from having an influence on domestic polices. IMHO I doubt the entire 268 fighter fleet of the Turkish Air Force will be replaced with an all T-FX force.

Turkey should take a page out of South Korea’s book and develop a semi-stealthy (because weapons are still carried under the wings) fighter.

but considering the costs, I think Turkey will just go for an indigenous upgrade of its F-16s which is what Pakistan should do as well. Acquire and build indigenous sub-systems to install on its own F-16s.
 
The purpose for an interim fighter would be to be the more affordable lower end of the Air Force, ditching the F-16 for a local product, and preventing sanctions from having an influence on domestic polices. IMHO I doubt the entire 268 fighter fleet of the Turkish Air Force will be replaced with an all T-FX force.

Turkey should take a page out of South Korea’s book and develop a semi-stealthy (because weapons are still carried under the wings) fighter.

but considering the costs, I think Turkey will just go for an indigenous upgrade of its F-16s which is what Pakistan should do as well. Acquire and build indigenous sub-systems to install on its own F-16s.


Turkey is not rich enough to afford 2 next-gen fighters, even if one is only interim - only the USA and China can do this.

It does not matter if Turkey can only afford 150 TF-X planes initially as they will be enough to give it air superiority in the region. As it gets richer it can order more planes and plan to get to around 250-300 in total.

In the meantime it is using tech developed for TF-X primarily in mind to upgrade it's F-16s with new avionics, AESA radars and BVRAAMs.
 
It does not matter if Turkey can only afford 150 TF-X planes initially as they will be enough to give it air superiority in the region. As it gets richer it can order more planes and plan to get to around 250-300 in total.

Turkiye planed to spend $45 billion for 100 F-35A ... ( buying , maintenance and operation cost )

the US blocked sale of 100 F-35A to the Turkish Airforce , so around 270 F-16s and F-4s will be replaced by the TFX

in 2030s Turkiye will become more richer than today to order 300 TFX for the Turkish Airforce to replace F-4s , F-5s and F-16s


also Turkiye plans to build Aircraft Carrier for 2030s ,, we can see carried based variant of the TFX



so Turkish Airforce needs new Fighter Jets instead of 100 F-35A ...... We can not wait for the TFX fleet by 2035 ( 15 years )

1) Turkiye can buy 48 Eurofighter Typhoons with METEOR Missiles for air superiority
2) 29 F-16 block50+ can replace old-F4s ..... ( 29 F-16 block50+ entered service between 2011 and 2012 )

3) and 163 of CCIP modernized F-16 block52s will be turned into block70 with Aselsan AESA Radar
 
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Turkiye planed to spend $45 billion for 100 F-35A ... ( buying , maintenance and operation cost )

the US blocked sale of 100 F-35A to the Turkish Airforce , so around 270 F-16s and F-4s will be replaced by the TFX

even F-5s will be replaced by the TFX ....... and in 2030s Turkiye will become more richer than today to order 300 TFX for the Turkish Airforce to replace F-4s , F-5s and F-16s


also Turkiye plans to build Aircraft Carrier for 2030s ,, we can see carried based variant of the TFX


Yes, Turkey can afford around 300 TF-X eventually, especially as a lot of the money will be spent using the domestic currency that is undervalued a lot against the US dollar.
 
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