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[TNT]

These islands were greek to begin with.Now if you are talking about realpolitik and stragy,yes it would have been in their advantage to take them back when they could. They are actually "lucky",because they got Imbros and Tenedos (the two islands west of the Straits) with the Treaty of Laussane. That gave them more "breathing room" in the Aegean,but then again,look at all the space they have in the south. And they have all the space they want in the Black Sea. They just want more. More and more. If you give them one island,they will demand a second.If you give them a second,a few years later they will ask for more.


This is the map:

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View attachment 781331


Here's the question though: Is Turkey really an ally? Is it really a NATO member? Hehe

Frankly i dont know much abt the history of those islands but if they r greek then its ok but the aegean sea should be shared. The EEZ is based on half the sea between "mainlands". This means greek islands are within Turkish EEZ. Turkey should have the right to explore in it. Also black sea doznt matter, did anyone tell russia/USSR they have too much land and should not expand? Greece also have alot of sea to its west, isnt that enough?
See you have accepted urself that those islands are right up Turkish coast n they need breathing space. I believe the issue can be solved if greece accepts Turkish EEZ n let them explore, Turkey wont mind the islands then.

 

[Foinikas]

Frankly i dont know much abt the history of those islands but if they r greek then its ok but the aegean sea should be shared. The EEZ is based on half the sea between "mainlands". This means greek islands are within Turkish EEZ. Turkey should have the right to explore in it. Also black sea doznt matter, did anyone tell russia/USSR they have too much land and should not expand? Greece also have alot of sea to its west, isnt that enough?
See you have accepted urself that those islands are right up Turkish coast n they need breathing space. I believe the issue can be solved if greece accepts Turkish EEZ n let them explore, Turkey wont mind the islands then.

Should India have the right to explore the sea right off the coast of Karachi and Gwadar? It's our sovereign territory. They have enough space to move and go south. Do you share half your garden with your neighbor,just because your fence stops right at his? Just because your window is 2 meters away from your neighbor's house,does that mean he has the right to half your front yard?
They have all that space in the south up to Syria and from Bulgaria to Georgia in the Black Sea.

 

[BON PLAN]

Here's the question though: Is Turkey really an ally? Is it really a NATO member? Hehe

It is the usefull idiot of USA against Russia in this area.
Once uncle Sam will no more need them they will be put ouside NATO. If NATO survived... I hope and expect the eureopeans to built a real and independant defense.

 

[TNT]

Should India have the right to explore the sea right off the coast of Karachi and Gwadar? It's our sovereign territory. They have enough space to move and go south. Do you share half your garden with your neighbor,just because your fence stops right at his? Just because your window is 2 meters away from your neighbor's house,does that mean he has the right to half your front yard?
They have all that space in the south up to Syria and from Bulgaria to Georgia in the Black Sea.

Your excuses are childish and so are ur comparisons. If gawadar or karachi was right opposite to indian territory then yes the sea would be shared. Your territory is ur Islands and the few miles around it. The sea will be shared between mainlands. Its not that complicated. Turkey have no right in the greek EEZ, which is half of Aegean Sea. In the other half u have ur islands with few miles of sea around it, u can travel through the sea between ur islands but the resources beneath the sea should belong to Turkey, as its Turkish EEZ. Having an island far away from ur mainland doesnt mean the sea between the mainland and island belongs to u. Turkey having other seas doesn't matter, u also have sea to ur western side. Its like a kid saying im taking ur candies because u have more than me lolz. See it from a neutral perspective and ull know their claims arent wrong.

 

[Foinikas]

Your excuses are childish and so are ur comparisons.

My excuses are "childish"? What about YOUR excuses? Just because you prefer to see these islands in Turkish hands? Because you like Turkey? There's a mainland and islands. This is our homeland.

In the other half u have ur islands with few miles of sea around it, u can travel through the sea between ur islands but the resources beneath the sea should belong to Turkey, as its Turkish EEZ.

WHY? Why should the resources beneath the sea be theirs if it's between our mainland and our islands?

Having an island far away from ur mainland doesnt mean the sea between the mainland and island belongs to u.

Take a look at the map. Do you see how many islands there are in the Aegean? It's not just one or two. It's a complex of islands. Connected to one another and the mainland. That's our country.

Its like a kid saying im taking ur candies because u have more than me lolz.

Are you joking? That's what Erdogan is doing. That's what Erdogan is actually pursuing. He wants to grab whatever he can. Do you think it's a coincidence that he's made so many enemies in the region? Egypt,Greece,Cyprus,Israel,Syria,half of Libya and from time to time even Russia? Do you think it's a coincidence he's pissed off the US and half of NATO with his behavior? Is that how a peaceful and diplomatically well-behaved (not obedient,well-behaved) country is supposed to be like?
Of course I've tried to see the situation from a neutral point of view and it's still ridiculous. You look at the map and you know the Aegean is what Erdogan denies it is: A Greek Lake.
Our Western EEZ has been settled just fine with Italy and Albania,since you mentioned it,by the way.

 

[TNT]

My excuses are "childish"? What about YOUR excuses? Just because you prefer to see these islands in Turkish hands? Because you like Turkey? There's a mainland and islands. This is our homeland.


WHY? Why should the resources beneath the sea be theirs if it's between our mainland and our islands?


Take a look at the map. Do you see how many islands there are in the Aegean? It's not just one or two. It's a complex of islands. Connected to one another and the mainland. That's our country.
View attachment 781404


Are you joking? That's what Erdogan is doing. That's what Erdogan is actually pursuing. He wants to grab whatever he can. Do you think it's a coincidence that he's made so many enemies in the region? Egypt,Greece,Cyprus,Israel,Syria,half of Libya and from time to time even Russia? Do you think it's a coincidence he's pissed off the US and half of NATO with his behavior? Is that how a peaceful and diplomatically well-behaved (not obedient,well-behaved) country is supposed to be like?
Of course I've tried to see the situation from a neutral point of view and it's still ridiculous. You look at the map and you know the Aegean is what Erdogan denies it is: A Greek Lake.
Our Western EEZ has been settled just fine with Italy and Albania,since you mentioned it,by the way.

Well this is the problem, the Aegean is not a greek lake. Its a sea and thus the laws of the sea apply. You can have ur historical claims and possession of Islands but the whole sea doea not belong to u and u have to give them an EEZ. You cannot have all the islands and all the sea right up to their coast, that is unfair and stupid. You look at the map and tell me why all the sea, which would be 10 times the area of ur whole land, should belong to u? Are you fish people and claim the sea is ur place? Lolz
I thought u ppl are somewhat reasonable but it seems i was was wrong.

 

[Foinikas]

Well this is the problem, the Aegean is not a greek lake. Its a sea and thus the laws of the sea apply. You can have ur historical claims and possession of Islands but the whole sea doea not belong to u and u have to give them an EEZ. You cannot have all the islands and all the sea right up to their coast, that is unfair and stupid. You look at the map and tell me why all the sea, which would be 10 times the area of ur whole land, should belong to u? Are you fish people and claim the sea is ur place? Lolz
I thought u ppl are somewhat reasonable but it seems i was was wrong.

But it's our territory. They got to lose the islands and be confined to the shores and the two islands west of the Dardaneles,Imvros and Tenedos. These are their borders in the west. In the Black Sea and the entire south they have a nice EEZ and from what they claim,they have found a gas field between Northern Cyprus and Turkey close to Syria. See? Not bad. Then Erdoğan claimed they found a massive field in the Black Sea. Alright then,exploit those and avoid provoking your neighbors.

 

[TNT]

But it's our territory. They got to lose the islands and be confined to the shores and the two islands west of the Dardaneles,Imvros and Tenedos. These are their borders in the west. In the Black Sea and the entire south they have a nice EEZ and from what they claim,they have found a gas field between Northern Cyprus and Turkey close to Syria. See? Not bad. Then Erdoğan claimed they found a massive field in the Black Sea. Alright then,exploit those and avoid provoking your neighbors.

Its not about what they have or have not, its about rights. I guess its not much use to try n convince u guys to see. well one day military solution might be achieved, one way or the other.

 

[Foinikas]

Its not about what they have or have not, its about rights. I guess its not much use to try n convince u guys to see. well one day military solution might be achieved, one way or the other.

We can't make you see it either. However the rest of the world sees it like this,it's internationally recognized territorial waters.

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

We've been trying,but just like Pakistan vs India,the Turks say "We're trying to solve this peacefully,but Greece is provoking us".
Basically whatever we say,they say the opposite. The Americans want balance in the region. They don't want us or the Turks getting stronger,they want us to have a balance.

I feel Turkish military industrial complex is becoming quite good even with their relience on lots of foreign technology and sourced components. They are actively trying to replace sanctionable components with domestic ones.

How Greece are planning to counter this? Turkish domestic military industrial complex definitely emboldened them.

 

[TNT]

We can't make you see it either. However the rest of the world sees it like this,it's internationally recognized territorial waters.

The world also has law of the sea and according to that, u r occupying their sea. You cannot have it both ways, preach rule of law if u practice it urself. Now i am sure there should be a ruthless military operation against greece, u ppl dnt deserve anything less.

 

[Foinikas]

I feel Turkish military industrial complex is becoming quite good even with their relience on lots of foreign technology and sourced components. They are actively trying to replace sanctionable components with domestic ones.

Yes. Back in the 90s and most of the 2000s we were all about balance. I mean the Turks always had more men and more equipment than us,but we had a slight advantage in technology and quality. Back in the early 2000s when we bought 170 Leopard 2A6,they had 170 M60s upgraded to M60T Sabra. We bought 183 Leopard 2A4s,they bought 283 and then even more for a total of 354. And the Americans and the Germans generally wanted a balance between us. They would sell us weapons,but wanted a balance more or less.

How Greece are planning to counter this? Turkish domestic military industrial complex definitely emboldened them.

Our military companies in Greece have a history of being abandoned by the government. There had been great projects developed by Greek defence companies since the '80s,that were ignored by the State probably because they thought they were too expensive or didn't really care. But I think it was also because they were getting bribes from foreign countries and companies. Maybe even because of political reasons.

For example in the late '90s ELVO made the Kentaurus (Centaur) IFV,which was one of the best IFVs in the world at the time. At least on paper. The government decided not to buy any and wanted to order 500 Marder 1s from Germany. As years passed,the Marders didn't come and we then signed a deal for 450 BMP-3s with Russia. But then the government changed in 2009 and cancelled the deal.
Imagine that it's 2021 and we have no modern IFV. The only IFV that we have is the BMP-1 Ost.
At the same time the Turks had been producing MRAPs,IFVs,APCs and armored cars by the hundreds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELVO_Kentaurus

Namco Tiger Armored Vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Aris IV - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There was also a recent project for a new domestically-made rifle for the Greek Army to replace the G3. A very skilled greek weaponsmith produced two designs,both of them were great and he was eventually ignored. For some reason,this country "kills" its own military defence industry.

You asked how do we plan to counter the Turks on this? Probably by buying more foreign weapons and systems and modernizing our Armed Forces. Because the last 10-12 years we've been left behind a lot in the Navy and Land Forces. Imagine we were given 400 Abrams for free by the Americans during the Obama administration and we said we'd get some 90. Then 80.But eventually got nothing.

 

[Apollon]

I feel Turkish military industrial complex is becoming quite good even with their relience on lots of foreign technology and sourced components. They are actively trying to replace sanctionable components with domestic ones.

How Greece are planning to counter this? Turkish domestic military industrial complex definitely emboldened them.

Turkey is quite weak military wise as could be seen in Iraq and Syria. we also know that Turkey folds quite fast when you step up to them. An attack on Greece is an attack against the EU. Turkey will never do that.

Erdogan is soon history and so is a turkish majority in Turkey. Greece enjoys great relations with the kurds, so in a few years that conflict ends peaceful anyways.

 

[Foinikas]

The world also has law of the sea and according to that, u r occupying their sea. You cannot have it both ways, preach rule of law if u practice it urself.

I'm sure if the law of the sea was against us,then the international community,especially the EU and the Americans would have nagged about it a long time ago. However,apparently it's mostly the Turks who nag and demand.

"On the other hand, the persistent, denial of Turkey, counting almost 40 years, to consent to the resolution of the Continental Shelf dispute with Greece before the ICJ arguably shows an unaccountable state practice in legal and diplomatic terms. The continuant slides into negotiations that may lead to an agreement for the resolution of the difference in Hague, may demonstrate desire on behalf of Turkey to enclose Greece in endless dialogues and negotiations as well as in an increasingly widening agenda of differences, so as to gain numerous collateral profits"

Now i am sure there should be a ruthless military operation against greece, u ppl dnt deserve anything less.

You can't hide your anti-Greek sentiments and extremely pro-Turkish stance,man. You've showed it again and again in various posts. It's ok,if you're Pakistani,I get it.

 

[TNT]

I'm sure if the law of the sea was against us,then the international community,especially the EU and the Americans would have nagged about it a long time ago. However,apparently it's mostly the Turks who nag and demand.

"On the other hand, the persistent, denial of Turkey, counting almost 40 years, to consent to the resolution of the Continental Shelf dispute with Greece before the ICJ arguably shows an unaccountable state practice in legal and diplomatic terms. The continuant slides into negotiations that may lead to an agreement for the resolution of the difference in Hague, may demonstrate desire on behalf of Turkey to enclose Greece in endless dialogues and negotiations as well as in an increasingly widening agenda of differences, so as to gain numerous collateral profits"


You can't hide your anti-Greek sentiments and extremely pro-Turkish stance,man. You've showed it again and again in various posts. It's ok,if you're Pakistani,I get it.

My stance has substance and am not some blind supporter, infact i am against the secular turks.
About EU and US lolz, u think they are beacons of impartiality and law? How many american war crimes have been punished? How many israeli war crimes been punished? What abt Australian war crimes in Afghanistan? Please dont tell me Europe or US would do this or that, they are the most evil nations who have wiped out indigenous populations mercilessly. Only a fool will expect anything from them. They support u because ur not muslim and against a muslim Turkey.