Grave of India-Pakistan war hero Brig Usman 'vandalised' in New Delhi

[bahadur]

चित्रकूट के घाट पर भैल लनठन की भीड़
तुलसी दास गौ दुहत और ......,,,,,रघुबीर

abdu we can communicate in our national language urdu .

 

[Baibars_1260]

He was speaking to me in that zabaan. Do not assume you are the centre of all attention every time you howl at the stars.

Don't bother.
He got his dose for today.
-----------------------------------------
But to return to our discussion:
The point I am making is to disconnect from Indian Muslims emotionally. It is like having a wound which will never heal because we keep hitting it. The more we think about Indian Muslims the more we will be in pain. If we can't stop thinking then the most important step we can take is not to show the enemy we care. By having long threads discussing the plight of Indian Muslims we are giving RSS IT trolls here the opportunity to mock us.
If we don't discuss then we rob them of that opportunity.
So if a thread is opened as a news item it should immediately be locked for no replies.

 

[Cherub786]

I have always preached that Muslims should not join the armed forces of any modern state, Muslim or otherwise. Muslims who join the Indian armed forces are going against our religious teachings. How can it be right for an Indian Muslim soldier to shoot at a fellow Muslim simply because he is wearing a Pakistani uniform, that too in the name of "mother land"?
But at the same token, Pakistani soldiers if they truly understand our Religion would also immediately resign their commission and go back to the civilian life. Being a soldier in today's world is incompatible with our religious values.

 

[padamchen]

Interesting. So I like how you're not restricting yourself to Persia but going pan-Iranic.

Kurds get overlooked in the international discourse. But they're a large nation. Could be the smaller rival to Persia if they were an independent nation. And they have a sister religious tradition to you Zoroastrians- Manichaeism- if I'm not wrong. Descended from the same prototype maybe.

You're begining to understand the design.

Most important.

They are done with Islam.
And they are fighters who hold territory in the heart of the oilfields of the middle East.

Smack dab in the center.

Abutting Persia.

And a launchpad for Arabia when the time is right.

Inshallah.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Baibars_1260]

talibani ji
you can find the same type of shahids of pak army killed in action in Balochistan insurgency.
very difficult .

Sanghchalakji,
Hamari sena ka to bhavishya he samasyagrasth hai . Baluchi bidrohiyon ke haath marejate hain to shaheed hi honge.
Aapke Naga, aur Manipuri bidrohi bhi hain. Pata nahin woh swargvas hote hain to veergati hote hain ki nahin.Sena adhikari jin ki mrityu hoti hai to woh bhi veergati honge.

1971 ki grih yudh mein hamari purvi bangali paltan bidroh kar gayee thi.
Kintu grih yudh aur purvi chetra ka algav ke paschat hamari sena ke kisi jernail ne wardi utaar ke apne hi sainikon par machinegun nahin chalayee.
Ashcharyajanak baat ye hai ki Mare jaane par bhi unhi ke sainikon ne unka antim sanskar rashtriya samman ke saath kiya.
90 sainik Veergati aur jis ne marvaya woh bhi Veergati.

 

[padamchen]

Hinduism is a religion, not a genetic mutation.

Bear in mind that up to 75% (possibly more according to some studies) of your "hindu DNA" comes from either the Indus Valley or the Pontic Steppe, or both. "Hindu DNA" is more Iranian and central Asian than Indian.

Not all Hindus.

Based on current numbers, less than 3% actually.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Baibars_1260]

Not all Hindus.

Based on current numbers, less than 3% actually.

Cheers, Doc

What is the DNA of the head Dom of the Varanasi Shamshaan ghat?

 

[padamchen]

Wow!!! let me be blunt here and be as civilized as possible....but am just curious how did you even come up with that claim....

Guns don't shoot themselves.

When one guy faces five equally armed guys, both shooting at each other, it does not matter how many guns that one guy keeps at home.

One bullet destined for him and his work is done in earth.

After that you need to find another guy to pick up his guns and start firing them back.

There was this brilliant scene in Enemy at the Gates.

The Russians had only enough guns for one out if every two men. So when they charged, they paired up. The man in front firing the gun. The man behind waiting for him to be shot and go down, before he could pick up the gun and keep firing.

You don't have enough guns.

You don't have enough men.

You last stand will be in the mountains to your west.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Cliftonite]

Our position today is like Turkey in from 1919-1923 when the Turks bankrupted, and defeated, faced an invasion from 6 major western powers, North African ( "Muslim") nations, and dozens of mini-ethnic paid "Language Nationalist " type groups.

I'm sorry I have to interject. Turkey came off on the losing side of World War 1. The treaty of Sevres was a product of that. Austria-Hungary was also carved up into small states. Likewise Germany was occupied by 4 powers, divided into two parts after World War 2 and placed under certain regulations while Japan faced something similar by the US after Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima-Nagasaki. Germany and Japan had to neuter their militaries but they grew economically leaps and bounds to become the 4th and 3rd largest economies.

Pakistan's 1971 debacle was its own doing. You're relating two different things. And adding in a little bit of 'Pakistan the last fortress of Islam left standing' mirch masala. Much of our problems are our own doing. And besides India, we don't really have external powers wanting to carve us up with the same intensity we think they want to.

 

[xeuss]

Generally u will find Pakistanis of two different mindsets when it comes to Muslims of other countries.

1) Those who adhere to the concept of a "Muslim ummah"...they feel kinship with Muslims anywhere...and any challenges, discrimination, or any other problem faced by Muslims elsewhere is a cause of concern to them. Examples include Palestine, Rohingya(Myanmar), Bosnia, etc...this extends to Indian Muslims as well.

2) Those who have either given up on the "Ummah" concept or never adhered to it in the first place. They wish to put Pakistan/Pakistanis first. This mostly stems from almost daily reminders that there's no such thing as "ummah" and it's each man for himself(each nation for itself). Some recent examples include...
- OIC sidelining Pakistan continuously...about raising Kashmir issue while it was in complete lockdown/blackout and ppl were being blinded by pellet guns, jailed, suppressed, etc. On the contrary some Arab countries instead gave medals to Modi.
- Maldives and Bangladesh(both Muslim countries) siding with Indian narrative to ostracize Pakistan in SAARC...effectively turning it into an India led organization.
- In 2017 Palestine recalling its ambassador from Pakistan under Indian pressure.

These are just some of the very very recent examples. The list is long...and a harsh reminder to the realities of the world. The ones here who r saying that the problems of Indian Muslims are their own...and Pakistan/Pakistanis have nothing to do with them...are from this second group.

Thank you for offering this perspective. I can believe that many other Muslim states fall under these two different mindsets.

Perhaps because we Indian Muslims never had our own state, and live as a minority, we only saw and experienced the first mindset - the concept of ummah. A common statement in our community is that the Indian Muslim cares about the affairs of every Muslim of the world, but no one cares about ours.

 

[Baibars_1260]

There was this brilliant scene in Enemy at the Gates.

The Russians had only enough guns for one out if every two men. So when they charged, they paired up. The man in front firing the gun. The man behind waiting for him to be shot and go down, before he could pick up the gun and keep firing.

So you learn your history through movies?
Why don't you seriously do some reading such as Chuikov's or Zhukov's account of the battle.?
The Soviet Union had lost a huge amount of small arms between June and December 1941 including the production units located in Ukraine and Byelorussia. The sharing of rifles was feature on some fronts in Ukraine or in the defense of Moscow in the winter of 1941.

By the time the Battle of Stalingrad started ( summer 1942) the Soviet Union had delivered nearly 1 million PPSh41 sub-machine-guns to the front. They would go on to make 6 million of these weapons including 15 million Mosin Nagants.

 

[PakFactor]

What exactly is that famous saying about "Dhobi ka kutta"??? Can't recall it

Just asking for my own knowledge

Hazarat I'll assist:

Dhobi Ka Kutta Na Ghar Ka Na Ghat Ka

LOL

 

[padamchen]

So you learn your history through movies?
Why don't you seriously do some reading such as Chuikov's or Zhukov's account of the battle.?
The Soviet Union had lost a huge amount of small arms between June and December 1941 including the production units located in Ukraine and Byelorussia. The sharing of rifles was feature on some fronts in Ukraine or in the defense of Moscow in the winter of 1941.

By the time the Battle of Stalingrad started ( summer 1942) the Soviet Union had delivered nearly 1 million PPSh41 sub-machine-guns to the front. They would go on to make 6 million of these weapons including 15 million Mosin Nagants.

I have a day job that involves human lives.

Maybe when I retire in 20-25 years ...

Cheers, Doc

 

[Baibars_1260]

I'm sorry I have to interject. Turkey came off on the losing side of World War 1. The treaty of Sevres was a product of that.

Austria-Hungary was also carved up into small states. Likewise Germany was occupied by 4 powers, divided into two parts after World War 2 and placed under certain regulations while Japan faced something similar by the US after Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima-Nagasaki. Germany and Japan had to neuter their militaries but they grew economically leaps and bounds to become the 4th and 3rd largest economies.

Pakistan's 1971 debacle was its own doing. You're relating two different things. And adding in a little bit of 'Pakistan the last fortress of Islam left standing' mirch masala. Much of our problems are our own doing. And besides India, we don't really have external powers wanting to carve us up with the same intensity we think they want to.

I'm sorry I have to interject. Turkey came off on the losing side of World War 1. The treaty of Sevres was a product of that. Austria-Hungary was also carved up into small states. Likewise Germany was occupied by 4 powers, divided into two parts after World War 2 and placed under certain regulations while Japan faced something similar by the US after Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima-Nagasaki. Germany and Japan had to neuter their militaries but they grew economically leaps and bounds to become the 4th and 3rd largest economies.

Pakistan's 1971 debacle was its own doing. You're relating two different things. And adding in a little bit of 'Pakistan the last fortress of Islam left standing' mirch masala. Much of our problems are our own doing. And besides India, we don't really have external powers wanting to carve us up with the same intensity we think they want to.

I have a day job that involves human lives.

Maybe when I retire in 20-25 years ...

Cheers, Doc

Keeping an extra bag of salt to pinch when I read your post.
So when is Yezdan descending to take out the Ayatollahs

 

[padamchen]

Keeping an extra bag of salt to pinch when I read your post.
So when is Yezdan descending to take out the Ayatollahs

The Ayatollahs to us is what Modi is to you.

An asset.

Cheers, Doc