Grave of India-Pakistan war hero Brig Usman 'vandalised' in New Delhi

[Markandeya]

This Grave was in the compound of Jamia Milia Islamia University and was to be maintained by them. The annual maintenance could not be done due to Covid-19. People are assuming here as if Indians did it when it was simply wear and tear.

Now Army has taken over as it is emotional thing for them.

Army to restore damaged grave of ‘Naushera ka Sher’

Brig. Usman was the most senior officer killed in the 1947-48 war with Pakistan.

www.thehindu.com

 

[bahadur]

Thank you for offering this perspective. I can believe that many other Muslim states fall under these two different mindsets.

Perhaps because we Indian Muslims never had our own state, and live as a minority, we only saw and experienced the first mindset - the concept of ummah. A common statement in our community is that the Indian Muslim cares about the affairs of every Muslim of the world, but no one cares about ours.

muslims of india got their own state pakistan , but our muslims with hindu DNA preferred to live among brother hindus .
some videshi muslims of victim card mentality , living in india are being directed from anti india forces , but they will fail ultimately .
hindustan jindabad .

 

[I.R.A]

Oye!

As you say sir.

Cheers, Doc

G bai sahib ....

Disagree with simple definition? Disagree with Mon theism taught and preached by Zoroaster?

Don't you worship only one creator?

 

[Baibars_1260]

Technically, once a Zoroastrian womb is impregnated with a fetus of non Zoroastrian blood, the women ceases to be Zoroastrian.

Today there are known cases of Zoroastrian women with a first husband who is anon Zoroastrian , and has non Zoroastrian kids with him, and is now married to a Zoroastrian, and has Zoroastrian kids with him.

Hmm..
Well seems you made an exception with Mr. Jinnah's wife and daughter and last I heard Nusli Wadia was a Parsi.

The Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tajiks have been contaminated with Mongol blood ( courtesy Chengiz Khan).
So your Aryan legacy is lost.

You will need. a doctor Mengele to start a eugenics program.
Kyrgyz children... Don't look like Bawas to me..

 

[padamchen]

G bai sahib ....

Disagree with simple definition? Disagree with Mon theism taught and preached by Zoroaster?

Don't you worship only one creator?

No man ...

Your refrain of the whole world was always Muslim.

That Zoroastrian Mashya was Muslim Adam.

Cheers, Doc

Well seems you made an exception with Mr. Jinnah's wife and daughter and last I heard Nusli Wadia was a Parsi.
The Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tajiks have been contaminated with Mongol blood. So your Aryan legacy is lost.
You will need. a doctor Mengele to start a eugenics program.
Kyrgyz children... Don't look like Bawas to me..

View attachment 701705

Correct.

You think Iranic Persians don't have admixture of Arab, Indic , Turkic, Nd even African blood?

We've been over this many many many times with the Iranians here.

You seem to be a new old soul.

That's the pre initiation purification I was referring to ...

Cheers, Doc

 

[bahadur]

Curious about the revocation of the rule 35A on Kashmir.
Earlier Indian Muslims as Indian citizens were banned from settling, or working, permanently in Kashmir. Now, is there an opportunity?
Would Indian Muslims settle in Kashmir and would Kashmiris welcome them? All 200 million obviously could not settle there but a modest number could trickle in.

An modest influx of Indian Muslims would likely preserve the religious demographics of the state but would upset the distinct ethnic character ( Kashmiriyat) .
But that Kashmiriyat is going anyway. So technically if some Indian Muslims settled in Kashmir they would have a state of sorts.

very good proposal , our muslim brothers from UP MP and Bihar should go and start settling there . we will come later .
thank you modi ji .

 

[bahadur]

He won't answer you in the open.

These elements scheme behind encrypted walls.

All the best to him and Afrazul Mandal I say.

Along with the Barishal Bomber, let them give it their best shot.

Cheers, Doc


Nope. We will speak in Persian.

Purge it of Arabic words.

And rekindle our script. Doing away with the current one that has no place on our ancestral Aryan homeland.

Cheers, Doc

baibar is same .

 

[padamchen]

Hmm..
Well seems you made an exception with Mr. Jinnah's wife and daughter and last I heard Nusli Wadia was a Parsi.

We've been over this many times too.

The Wadia clan now are social Parsis.

Ruttie however died a Parsi.

There are many social Parsi kids of Parsi mothers now.

As you know, while kids take the name of the father, socially, family wise and spiritually they are closer to their mothers.

However, the laws do not give them the rights.

Society (Parsi) though accepts them as their own. It's done very delicately from both sides.

A social Parsi kid will pray at home. Light the divo.

But never enter a fire temple.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Baibars_1260]

Correct.

You think Iranic Persians don't have admixture of Arab, Indic , Turkic, Nd even African blood?

We've been over this many many many times with the Iranians here.

You seem to be a new old soul.

That's the pre initiation purification I was referring to ...

Cheers, Doc

You didn't answer how Nusli Wadia remained a Parsi when his grandfather was a Muslim.,

You just mentioned that "Technically " a Zoroastrian woman impregnated with a non-Zoroastrian fathered fetus becomes a non-Zoroastrian "

Of course Iranians are thoroughly "contaminated" with every type of race. During the first six centuries of Islam there was a Commonwealth spreading from North Africa to the Pacific via China. If you have read Ibn Batuta's travels you will know about this era.,Race in marriage was a minor factor. There was complete intermixing of races. Then the Mongols added their mix .,
Which is why the Shah of Iran calling himself Arya Mehr was the joke of the century.
One thing good about the Ayatollahs is that they have no illusions of racial superiority.

Well good luck with your Persian Empire just don't fight the Greeks again, It took 300 of them to send the Persians packing. You will need another Samji or Taraporewala to deal with the Greeks.
Which raises another point. So Samji didn't roll into Pakistan on to Iran because it was a "Hindu" fight?
For your knowledge:
The 1971 Indo Pak war was the most secular war on the subcontinent. Hindu India was allied with Muslim East Bengal while Hindu Buddhist Chakma fighters allied with Pakistan. There was refueling and overflight support to Pakistan from Buddhist Sri Lanka and Myanmar. Hindu Nepal was officially neutral but tilted towards Pakistan allowing PIA flights to land in Kathmandu evacuating Pakistani civilians who had escaped from Bangladesh across the chicken's neck into Nepal. Pakistani Christian pilots flew missions over West Pakistan and Indian Christian pilots also flew missions over West Pakistan.
How was it a Hindu fight?
My last post. Will read your reply.

 

[padamchen]

You didn't answer how Nusli Wadia remained a Parsi when his grandfather was a Muslim.,

You just mentioned that "Technically " a Zoroastrian woman impregnated with a non-Zoroastrian fathered fetus becomes a non-Zoroastrian "

Of course Iranians are thoroughly "contaminated" with every type of race. During the first six centuries of Islam there was a Commonwealth spreading from North Africa to the Pacific via China. If you have read Ibn Batuta's travels you will know about this era.,Race in marriage was a minor factor. There was complete intermixing of races. Then the Mongols added their mix .,
Which is why the Shah of Iran calling himself Arya Mehr was the joke of the century.
One thing good about the Ayatollahs is that they have no illusions of racial superiority.

Well good luck with your Persian Empire just don't fight the Greeks again, It took 300 of them to send the Persians packing. You will need another Samji or Taraporewala to deal with the Greeks.
Which raises another point. So Samji didn't roll into Pakistan on to Iran because it was a "Hindu" fight?
For your knowledge:
The 1971 Indo Pak war was the most secular war on the subcontinent. Hindu India was allied with Muslim East Bengal while Hindu Buddhist Chakma fighters allied with Pakistan. There was refueling and overflight support to Pakistan from Buddhist Sri Lanka and Myanmar. Hindu Nepal was officially neutral but tilted towards Pakistan allowing PIA flights to land in Kathmandu evacuating Pakistani civilians who had escaped from Bangladesh across the chicken's neck into Nepal. Pakistani Christian pilots flew missions over West Pakistan and Indian Christian pilots also flew missions over West Pakistan.
How was it a Hindu fight?
My last post. Will read your reply.

Since the early 1900s (just before Independence), Parsis have started allowing kids if Parsi father non Parsi mothers into the faith via the Navjote ceremony.

This is done by consensus between the Vada Dastur of Udvada and the head Dasturs of all 9 Atash Behrams (including the one in Iran) based on their reading of the ancient texts and the Riyavats (theological epistles from Iran) of the past 1000 years.

After all, Zoroastrianism became a world religion, from China to Rome, along similar lines. Way past the Persian bloodlines.

Think on a much smaller scale equally organic Aryan Hinduism spreading past its geographical boundaries and bloodlines to South East Asia under the Chollas.

So Nusli is definitely a Parsi. As is his line.

And a big lol to the Sparta 300 fairytale. Do you get your history from the movies?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Cookie Monster]

Thank you for offering this perspective. I can believe that many other Muslim states fall under these two different mindsets.

Perhaps because we Indian Muslims never had our own state, and live as a minority, we only saw and experienced the first mindset - the concept of ummah. A common statement in our community is that the Indian Muslim cares about the affairs of every Muslim of the world, but no one cares about ours.

It's one of the harder realizations to have...but if u want something done u have to work for it/fight for it urself. It applies at an individual level...and can be expanded to a national level. It also applies universally...Indian Muslims or otherwise.

The biggest mistake some of the ancestors(ppl who were in the position to do something about it) of current Indian Muslims made...is not being united in their decision. There were those who adhered to two nation theory...there were those sold on one nation theory and Nehru's idea of a secular state...and everything in between. Imagine an army being led in different directions for different objectives by multiple generals...as opposed to that same army being led in one direction with one purpose by one general. This is what the current Indian Muslims need right now. No other country can help u...besides some sort of lip service or raising the matter in UN to highlight injustices...this battle is to be fought by Indian Muslims themselves.

What u guys need to figure out...is what is the objective? Is it to work within the system? Slowly electing away the RSS types...bringing in more neutral leaders? Having certain laws passed? Gerrymandering differently to form Muslim majority areas for better representation?
Or perhaps something more drastic...like physically moving Muslims in certain areas/states to form majority?(something that will take a lot of time and resources)
Or maybe working within the system is no longer possible...and another partition is necessary?

Whatever it maybe...u better hope that the Indian Muslims work towards that goal...united...
...splintering and running towards different objectives...would deliver a dhobi ka kutta type of result.
@Baibars_1260 @masterchief_mirza

 

[Cookie Monster]

The problem I have with yours and @Baibars_1260 posts on this matter is that there is a fundamental oversimplification at play.

Certainly, there is the "ummah" movement. Also certainly, a "counter-ummah" or "ummah-cautious" movement exists. However, to classify every Pakistani Muslim's relationship with Islamic India as being defined in one of these two ways is ignoring the possibility of more nuanced positions based on alternative interests.

Is it plausible that Pakistani Muslims hold a different connection to Indian Muslims, beyond the simplified "ummah" rhetoric? Whether we like it or not, we share language, history, ancestry, culture, cuisine, literature and dress with these people. Notwithstanding the assault on our shared religion by hindutva forces, that there is a simultaneous assault by the same enemy against everything from that list I just posted should irk even the least religious muslim belonging to either nation.

I just listed the two major mindsets that u find commonly in Pak...I'm sure there's a bunch of different kinds of thinking and POVs...between those two extremes.

Yes u r right...we share cultural links with Indian Muslims...which is an additional link on top of the whole ummah concept. However there's an equal and opposite counter balance to it...
...the nationality(as in the traditional animosity between "Indian" and "Pakistani"). When this card comes into play...and u hear someone like Asaduddin Owaisi criticizing Pakistan and Jinnah...
...in the mind of Pakistanis...that additional cultural similarity goes right down the drain. If anything it feels more like a betrayal...bcuz that same Pakistani who considered Indian Muslims their "fellow Muslim brother"...finds that this same "Muslim brother" holds him and his fellow countrymen in contempt.
...so it ends up serving as a double edged sword...it cuts both ways.

 

[padamchen]

Its all about conquest and military might in the end.

That's how the subcontinent's got Muslims in the first place.

In spite of Maratha reconquest and the establishment of the confederacy, this was broken by the advent of the British on the backs and shoulders of ready and willing Muslims and Hindus who had their knives out.

The Brits are gone.

And the Muslims managed to salvage a good chunk of land out of all this for the last 1000 years of religious strife.

The Hindu got back a motheaten and truncated homeland. But at least it was continuous, with no holes in it.

Technically Bangladesh is a big hole. Which will always be closely monitored and controlled.

Pakistan is there and has been there since 1947.

There was free movement of people till as late as the 1970s.

The Muslims of India now have been Indian long enough to know how India works.

It is not a caliphate.

Islam is a guest theology.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Baibars_1260]

Since the early 1900s (just before Independence), Parsis have started allowing kids if Parsi father non Parsi mothers into the faith via the Navjote ceremony.

Can't help smiling on this statement. So why wasn't there a Navjote ceremony for Rajeev and Sanjay Gandhi? Why did they choose to identify as Brahmins?
But as you say you have answered these questions multiple times before...
so we will move on...

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Indian Muslims need guns. Nothing else.

We are witnessing precisely what the Nazis did to German Jews prior to the holocaust.

Some of our Indian colleagues continue to wonder why we feel very strongly that Indian Muslims should arm themselves immediately.

@HostileInsurgent

The "Night of Broken Glass"

On November 9–10, 1938, the Nazi regime coordinated a wave of antisemitic violence in Nazi Germany. This became known as Kristallnacht or the "Night of Broken Glass."

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

"It appeared to be unplanned, set off by Germans' anger over the assassination of a German official in Paris at the hands of a Jewish teenager. In fact, German propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels and other Nazis carefully organized the pogroms. In two days, over 250 synagogues were burned, over 7,000 Jewish businesses were trashed and looted, dozens of Jewish people were killed, and Jewish cemeteries, hospitals, schools, and homes were looted while police and fire brigades stood by. The pogroms became known as Kristallnacht"

but but but, how dare Indian Muslims even consider arming themselves and fighting back. How dare they.

I have been saying for years on PDF bro that Muslims in India will witness Kristellnacht. Go check my post history if you want.

What is coming for muslims in Europe and America is even worse.