GOI clueless on growing Chinese Naval Muscle

[rajeev]

yes, we made things affordable to many ppl in the world.

care to explain which high tech things are made in India cannot be made in China?

do u bother to think why you lag behind then? One of the reason I believe is due to the politcal system which you are very proud of.

India/China consumption models
------------------------------------
Indian GDP is composed of 70% service-based consumer driven and 30% industry-driven, whereas the Chinese GDP is composed of 40% consumer-driven and 60% industry-driven.

Services exports are roughly twice as important for India as for China. Within merchandise trade, both are
dependent on manufactures, with China much more strongly integrated into production networks through trade in parts and components.

Future Economic projection
-----------------------------
The current economic crisis clearly illustrated the importance of self-sustance. US and European countries have saved far too little and in US, clock went so much backwards to hit negative savings rate - inspite of increasing home prices in double digits.

Now, apparently after the recession, US and European consumers have started consuming less and saving more - a lot more in case of US. US currently extrapolated saving's rate is about 8%. This should continue for forseeable future until some normalcy is achieved. Dr. Rosenberg - famed economist and Dr. Roubini - economist at NYU projects that developed countries savings rate will cause the growth rates to be anemic in this recovery. China which is largely dependent on the export growth based model would either has to provide stimulus to its economy to maintain its growth. PIMCO's El-erian's suggests that world has changed and the newer projections would be a world where the developed countries will have higher unemployment rates (thereby lower consumption rates). India will also be impacted but since its growth is mostly internal driven, impact on it will lower (as 30% is the only industry base - of which a small percentage is used for exports).

China it is expected has a potential to be a star if it decides to provides some form of social security and better medical care to its people.

There is a joke in India regarding its own growth. "India grows when the government sleeps." Unless the government of India steps up on gas for infrastructure it will finds manufacturing only registering lower growth than its potential.

Primary differences between India and China in Industries
------------------------------------------------------------
Every economy in its initial stages are prone to more imitation. As the industry matures, more players are formed and innovations are made which leaps way forward.

Almost all major companies in China are state-owned/state-controlled/major share holder. There are only few exceptions like Lenovo, Ping Ann, BYD, . While many others are branches of foreign companies that use China as a base for making products rather than implementing design in China.

Whereas India except few (and mostly all) major profit-generating companies are owned privately or held publicly.

India does not compete with the hardcore Chinese manufacturing firms head on because it operates one of the most efficient and labor-rich industries. A case in point - Mukund Steel, an Indian firm develops only high-grade steel that meets the European standards, thereby enabling it to generate huge profit margins.

Indian movie arena is one of largest producers of movies of the world. There are more movies made in India, than the rest of the world combined. It is a self-driven industry in India.

Ofcourse, the popularly known Indian software giants like TCS, Infosys and Wipro are wholly home grown.

Innovation in automobile industry is not very known. India's Tata Nano had huge press becoming cheapest car. This car was designed and innovated completely in India. There is also Mahindra & Mahindra which are trying to make inroads in US competing with John Deere.

There are lot more examples. I think I left out Reliance Industries -- too much on this company.

Doubts about Chinese official growth numbers
-------------------------------------------------
In the midst of the economic recession, in an economy that is entirely driven by exports and when consumption had been severly in all developed nations, Chinese government suggested it would register a 8% growth rate about six months in advance. After 6 months, it noted not 7.9% growth nor 8.1% growth, apparently as the clock work. This happened in the middle of 2008. At this time, there was a huge discontent among most competent economist about the truthfulness of the government issued growth rates.

There were also clearly reports on the trustfulness of Chinese GDP numbers in 2005 when the electric consumption has declined three years in a row, but Chinese export grew in double digits all the subsequent years.

If you want more details, I can provide more on this. For now, refer to #3 and #4.

Chinese FDI numbers- Why are they always so high?

Chinese top leadership has maintained a policy of higher growth and so each of the provinces are expected to perform and help grow faster. This is also incentivized by the leadership. This causes room for people to increase the numbers to get better privileges and benefits to quote higher numbers. There was also a report that had widely circulated on this.

Chinese calculation of FDI includes the amount of the money that could be reinvested from outside even by Chinese citizens and many Chinese living in mainland China do so as the FDI invested money is provided with special incentives and better taxation schemes.

How come China still has 2 trillion dollars in US bonds if the growth didnot happen?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
No one disputes whether Chinese growth didnot happen. The only thing people are talking of very high double digits that according to some famed economists cannot happen for a large country like China. The actual growth they predict are close to 7% rather than 9-11% quoted.

There is a wide held belief in economics community that China which had pegged its currency during the currency crisis in 90's is severly stretching the world economics. There is a wide held belief as well that the currency is way undervalued as much as 40% according to some reports. A free floating currency suggestion is up in the works.

The risk to Chinese holding 2 trillion dollars is strategically far too dangerous to US. The current crisis which is adding severe deflation to US currency because of the unwinding of the leverage is also causing the crisis to hit US very badly. Treasury had implemented minor plans to lower the value by increasing the supply of money to sustain and maintain the US economy. US debt is about 14 trillion and is growing. The only viable option which is easiest in a democracy is to decrease the value of the currency. China holds 2 trillion in US dollars, followed by Japan and Europe. This would help US to get out currency crisis issue.

How democracy is better?
-----------------------------
Yes, Having a one-party system has its advantages, like moving on things very fast. But that does not evade corruption. At some point in time, when there is a weakness in the leadership, people will demand the ability to change the ruling class and if there is no alternative in case of one-party system. This can cause crisis within.

So over long periods of time, democracy works. Because people feel that they can change the leaders that rule the country and a sense of ownership.

China as it stands now has very restricted media. Every one knows that it is better not to speak against the government else one could get in trouble.

So over the short run, democracy hinders growth but over the long term, it is a self-sustaining engine. Remember no civil wars/clashes provides better environment for growth. It is only because of continous wars in Indian and Chinese subcontinent which destroyed the country's per capita w.r.t. to the world during 1500-1950.

Upcoming population crisis in China.
--------------------------------------
China's Moa of one-child has reduced the population and brought to complete stand still. China is going to have a rapdily aging population very soon. Rather than normal curve, Chinese population is expected to grow old before they become rich, though the Chinese GDP will be the largest in the world.

Can India do China
--------------------
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/ideas/brics/book/BRICs-Chapter19.pdf

I am tired of typing and so I am cutting it short, sorry guys.


References:
------------
1. http://siteresources.worldbank.org/...916-1206974192224/Chapter3DancingWith2006.pdf
2. Historical and future expectation for India - http://www.usindiafriendship.net/viewpoints1/Indias_Rising_Growth_Potential.pdf (Goldman Sachs report)
3. http://www.pitt.edu/~tgrawski/papers2001/caveat.web.pdf
4. chinagdpwithROW.jpg (image)

 

[Srinivas]

My dear, since you were completely beaten up;

I will let you go for now.

P.S. Next time do some homework before trash talking.

BYE !!

you have to do some home work before trolling in this thread .
what is the use of having higher GDP if the people of the state are not having basic human rights .
And what ever development you are talking is confined to west china can you elaborate on the development of the east china and Uighur province?
yes we agree there are slums in India but can u confirm that there are no slums in china .
regarding the topic we are discussing right now we aren't prepared to secure Indian ocean but in a matter of time we can do that considering the pace of induction of naval vessels.

 

[grey boy 2]

i feel you have to do some home work before trolling in this thread

Funny ! Who give a damn what you feel ?

By the way trolling is in your Indian's blood.

 

[bigmoneymaker]

China's naval nationalism: Has A K Antony blinked?



Why is it all right for the Chinese Navy to operate in India's backyard and wrong, from the perspective of our Ministry of Defence, for the Indian Navy to conduct naval exercises in China's frontyard?



As Beijing revels in its newly minted naval nationalism, New Delhi seems determined to curb the Indian Navy's enthusiasm to raise the nation's maritime profile.



The MoD's decision, at the eleventh hour, to pull the services out of a multilateral naval exercise in the Western Pacific last week, begs some serious questions. Is the Minister of Defence, A K Antony, in sync with India's naval aspirations? Or has he begun to feel the heat from the Chinese pressures on our land borders?

Questions about his uncertain naval vision arose when he refused to let the Navy join the international operations against pirates in the Gulf of Aden last year. As Antony dithered for long before saying yes, Beijing used the international concerns on piracy to mount its first ever expeditionary naval operation into the Indian Ocean.

As it completes its year-long deployment in the Indian Ocean, Beijing is now eager to expand its maritime cooperation with the US and other western powers that have begun to acknowledge China's rise as a naval power.



The Indian Navy, which has a longer record of modern operations at sea and enjoys many maritime advantages over China, appears increasingly tied down by the terrible timidity of the MoD's political leadership.



In contrast, the Chinese Communist Party has embarked on a massive mobilisation of naval nationalism. CCP chairman Hu Jintao repeatedly talks of China's "manifest maritime destiny". Thanks to the CCP campaign, Chinese citizens are turning up in droves to offer personal donations to help Beijing build aircraft carriers



If Antony thinks he is being 'nice' to the Chinese by cancelling exercises in the Western Pacific, he has no inkling of how Beijing thinks. The Chinese respect those with the will to power, and they mount relentless pressure on those who wilt.



Recall the recent Chinese tease for a naval condominium with the US: Washington could stay in the Eastern Pacific and China would police the Western Pacific and Indian Oceans.



As it rises, China will inevitably build a powerful navy. It is also logical that China will protect its growing interests in the Indian Ocean. There is no way India can or should stop it. New Delhi must focus, instead, on consolidating its own position in the Indian Ocean and elevating its maritime profile in the Western Pacific.



It is that strategic parity that will provide the basis for a much needed maritime dialogue and cooperation with China. But if New Delhi is eager to offer unilateral naval concessions, why blame Beijing for turning up the heat?

just recently after i surfed the forums so i discovered that indians are so despicxxxx!!! when facing pakistan they wielded their big sticks threatening the people to submit to them, and by this way india subdued the surrounding immediate weak neighbours to make him the unchallengeable big brother!!!
But when facing china, it pretended to be the innocent victim to draw international sympathy to gain aids and assistance to contain china. such weaklixx.. if you dont want to confront with china, then dont make any aggressive stance to your neighbours or someday you shall get your retribution. the one oppresses others may get oppressed by stronger one eventually..stop this vicious cycle of hatred, if you truly have the will to abandon the hegemonic mindset !!! just a piece of sincere advice.

firstly, the aids may include the tot by another advanced country when you are still unable to probe or reverse engineering by yourself on your own brainpower and efforts. in such case , aids in form of the rewards of tech and political support is much needed.

secondly, geopolitic is a mere concept introduced by the west to create distrust between traditional neighbouring countries in asia..dont you see eu are united to play at the victims believing this? even a bigger country can have political amnesty to her weaker neighbours in need of help and development, you know only about fighting each other?

thirdly, will you believe a smaller and weaker country will become more aggressive than the bigger ones?? even if the smaller ones may have gained the support from one superpower? or the propaganda by your free media of making yourselves innocent prevailing in your minds??

well, you have to know that malaysia is a small country whose economy based on raw material export to manufacturing industry strong country. and, it is always feasible for a smaller country to stand along with a country with respectable visions and able to give a guidance on prosperity future of the whole region..and most saliently , the credibility of such countries in doing trades and enhancing regional security of south east asia, with unscrupolous usa and now pragmatic china, perhaps fanatic india in future only if it can transform into a much more matured country, and your enemy is china is none of our business, who makes you think china is your enemy first of all, after all i dont see any chinese media getting obsessed with the hostility against india 2 years before , but now think about it who initiated the spitfire between china and india, in democratic society media fried over the controversial matter to gain popularity and better sales volume, this phenomenon in india is evev crazier than that in malaysia here when come to sensitive issues, they just make bluffing to mislead people...YOU CREATE YOUR OWN ENEMY with you infinitely magnifying the hatred and shame you bear, endless enmity via your imagination without looking forward..

 

[Srinivas]

Funny ! Who give a damn what you feel ?

By the way trolling is in your Indian's blood.

buddy just check the posts you have posted and how the thread got derailed.

 

[aimarraul]

India/China consumption models
------------------------------------
Indian GDP is composed of 70% service-based consumer driven and 30% industry-driven, whereas the Chinese GDP is composed of 40% consumer-driven and 60% industry-driven.

every country start with industry,it's the only pathway to a developed one

 

[rajeev]

just recently after i surfed the forums so i discovered that indians are so despicxxxx!!! when facing pakistan they wielded their big sticks threatening the people to submit to them, and by this way india subdued the surrounding immediate weak neighbours to make him the unchallengeable big brother!!!
But when facing china, it pretended to be the innocent victim to draw international sympathy to gain aids and assistance to contain china. such weaklixx.. if you dont want to confront with china, then dont make any aggressive stance to your neighbours or someday you shall get your retribution. the one oppresses others may get oppressed by stronger one eventually..stop this vicious cycle of hatred, if you truly have the will to abandon the hegemonic mindset !!! just a piece of sincere advice.

firstly, the aids may include the tot by another advanced country when you are still unable to probe or reverse engineering by yourself on your own brainpower and efforts. in such case , aids in form of the rewards of tech and political support is much needed.

secondly, geopolitic is a mere concept introduced by the west to create distrust between traditional neighbouring countries in asia..dont you see eu are united to play at the victims believing this? even a bigger country can have political amnesty to her weaker neighbours in need of help and development, you know only about fighting each other?

thirdly, will you believe a smaller and weaker country will become more aggressive than the bigger ones?? even if the smaller ones may have gained the support from one superpower? or the propaganda by your free media of making yourselves innocent prevailing in your minds??

well, you have to know that malaysia is a small country whose economy based on raw material export to manufacturing industry strong country. and, it is always feasible for a smaller country to stand along with a country with respectable visions and able to give a guidance on prosperity future of the whole region..and most saliently , the credibility of such countries in doing trades and enhancing regional security of south east asia, with unscrupolous usa and now pragmatic china, perhaps fanatic india in future only if it can transform into a much more matured country, and your enemy is china is none of our business, who makes you think china is your enemy first of all, after all i dont see any chinese media getting obsessed with the hostility against india 2 years before , but now think about it who initiated the spitfire between china and india, in democratic society media fried over the controversial matter to gain popularity and better sales volume, this phenomenon in india is evev crazier than that in malaysia here when come to sensitive issues, they just make bluffing to mislead people...YOU CREATE YOUR OWN ENEMY with you infinitely magnifying the hatred and shame you bear, endless enmity via your imagination without looking forward..

And you think we care a damn what Chinese media aka Chinese govt think? You got to be kidding yourself.

India is in a very sweet spot. None of the western countries want to provide any kind of high tech weapons to China. The only counter they see to China's influence is India. So India gets free privilges and access to US and European high tech weapons that are only provided to their allies.

The other high quality producer of arms is Russia who had disputes with China before and not comfortable with Chinese rise. They provide far more access to India than any other country.

Thanks to Islamophobia and Palestine/Israel problems, Israel expects support and wishes to gain money from Indian defense purchases.

Now, if you can show me one country that can have access to US/European/Russian/Israel technologies all the same time. This relationship is flourishing inspite of Obama's anti-India feelings

China prefers quantity over quality, Indians do the reverse.

Now regarding Malayasian interference, how come you post the same material in so many posts in a span of 10 minutes. That is trolling you know and not expected of members in this forum

 

[rajeev]

every country start with industry,it's the only pathway to a developed one

No, Indian model is not a tried model. Indian model is based on service and pretty much self-sustaining due to initial 50 years of socialist approach to developing economy.

Chinese model is the approach used by all economies around the world. But until now, there were no countries that was as huge as China that grew on export/model. So, it has become difficult to sustain because Chinese undervaluation of currency along with underconsumption and huge savings is impacting the world.

if you want to profit from this trend, you should concentrate on buying chinese based finance companies. I dont want to tip you way off as I could lose my job, but you will see the companies I am talking if you dig into it a bit. This part of industry very immature.

Also, buying Chinese shares via ADR or Hongkong shares is far more profitable as Chinese mainland based class shares are way overvalued.

The current savings rate is about 40% in China, which is rather ridiculous. At some point in time, people will try to find ways to increase ROI. The under penetrated stock market buying will accelerate.

 

[bigmoneymaker]

India/China consumption models
------------------------------------
Indian GDP is composed of 70% service-based consumer driven and 30% industry-driven, whereas the Chinese GDP is composed of 40% consumer-driven and 60% industry-driven.

Services exports are roughly twice as important for India as for China. Within merchandise trade, both are
dependent on manufactures, with China much more strongly integrated into production networks through trade in parts and components.

Future Economic projection
-----------------------------
The current economic crisis clearly illustrated the importance of self-sustance. US and European countries have saved far too little and in US, clock went so much backwards to hit negative savings rate - inspite of increasing home prices in double digits.

Now, apparently after the recession, US and European consumers have started consuming less and saving more - a lot more in case of US. US currently extrapolated saving's rate is about 8%. This should continue for forseeable future until some normalcy is achieved. Dr. Rosenberg - famed economist and Dr. Roubini - economist at NYU projects that developed countries savings rate will cause the growth rates to be anemic in this recovery. China which is largely dependent on the export growth based model would either has to provide stimulus to its economy to maintain its growth. PIMCO's El-erian's suggests that world has changed and the newer projections would be a world where the developed countries will have higher unemployment rates (thereby lower consumption rates). India will also be impacted but since its growth is mostly internal driven, impact on it will lower (as 30% is the only industry base - of which a small percentage is used for exports).

China it is expected has a potential to be a star if it decides to provides some form of social security and better medical care to its people.

There is a joke in India regarding its own growth. "India grows when the government sleeps." Unless the government of India steps up on gas for infrastructure it will finds manufacturing only registering lower growth than its potential.

Primary differences between India and China in Industries
------------------------------------------------------------
Every economy in its initial stages are prone to more imitation. As the industry matures, more players are formed and innovations are made which leaps way forward.

Almost all major companies in China are state-owned/state-controlled/major share holder. There are only few exceptions like Lenovo, Ping Ann, BYD, . While many others are branches of foreign companies that use China as a base for making products rather than implementing design in China.

Whereas India except few (and mostly all) major profit-generating companies are owned privately or held publicly.

India does not compete with the hardcore Chinese manufacturing firms head on because it operates one of the most efficient and labor-rich industries. A case in point - Mukund Steel, an Indian firm develops only high-grade steel that meets the European standards, thereby enabling it to generate huge profit margins.

Indian movie arena is one of largest producers of movies of the world. There are more movies made in India, than the rest of the world combined. It is a self-driven industry in India.

Ofcourse, the popularly known Indian software giants like TCS, Infosys and Wipro are wholly home grown.

Innovation in automobile industry is not very known. India's Tata Nano had huge press becoming cheapest car. This car was designed and innovated completely in India. There is also Mahindra & Mahindra which are trying to make inroads in US competing with John Deere.

There are lot more examples. I think I left out Reliance Industries -- too much on this company.

Doubts about Chinese official growth numbers
-------------------------------------------------
In the midst of the economic recession, in an economy that is entirely driven by exports and when consumption had been severly in all developed nations, Chinese government suggested it would register a 8% growth rate about six months in advance. After 6 months, it noted not 7.9% growth nor 8.1% growth, apparently as the clock work. This happened in the middle of 2008. At this time, there was a huge discontent among most competent economist about the truthfulness of the government issued growth rates.

There were also clearly reports on the trustfulness of Chinese GDP numbers in 2005 when the electric consumption has declined three years in a row, but Chinese export grew in double digits all the subsequent years.

If you want more details, I can provide more on this. For now, refer to #3 and #4.

Chinese FDI numbers- Why are they always so high?

Chinese top leadership has maintained a policy of higher growth and so each of the provinces are expected to perform and help grow faster. This is also incentivized by the leadership. This causes room for people to increase the numbers to get better privileges and benefits to quote higher numbers. There was also a report that had widely circulated on this.

Chinese calculation of FDI includes the amount of the money that could be reinvested from outside even by Chinese citizens and many Chinese living in mainland China do so as the FDI invested money is provided with special incentives and better taxation schemes.

How come China still has 2 trillion dollars in US bonds if the growth didnot happen?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
No one disputes whether Chinese growth didnot happen. The only thing people are talking of very high double digits that according to some famed economists cannot happen for a large country like China. The actual growth they predict are close to 7% rather than 9-11% quoted.

There is a wide held belief in economics community that China which had pegged its currency during the currency crisis in 90's is severly stretching the world economics. There is a wide held belief as well that the currency is way undervalued as much as 40% according to some reports. A free floating currency suggestion is up in the works.

The risk to Chinese holding 2 trillion dollars is strategically far too dangerous to US. The current crisis which is adding severe deflation to US currency because of the unwinding of the leverage is also causing the crisis to hit US very badly. Treasury had implemented minor plans to lower the value by increasing the supply of money to sustain and maintain the US economy. US debt is about 14 trillion and is growing. The only viable option which is easiest in a democracy is to decrease the value of the currency. China holds 2 trillion in US dollars, followed by Japan and Europe. This would help US to get out currency crisis issue.

How democracy is better?
-----------------------------
Yes, Having a one-party system has its advantages, like moving on things very fast. But that does not evade corruption. At some point in time, when there is a weakness in the leadership, people will demand the ability to change the ruling class and if there is no alternative in case of one-party system. This can cause crisis within.

So over long periods of time, democracy works. Because people feel that they can change the leaders that rule the country and a sense of ownership.

China as it stands now has very restricted media. Every one knows that it is better not to speak against the government else one could get in trouble.

So over the short run, democracy hinders growth but over the long term, it is a self-sustaining engine. Remember no civil wars/clashes provides better environment for growth. It is only because of continous wars in Indian and Chinese subcontinent which destroyed the country's per capita w.r.t. to the world during 1500-1950.

Upcoming population crisis in China.
--------------------------------------
China's Moa of one-child has reduced the population and brought to complete stand still. China is going to have a rapdily aging population very soon. Rather than normal curve, Chinese population is expected to grow old before they become rich, though the Chinese GDP will be the largest in the world.

Can India do China
--------------------
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/ideas/brics/book/BRICs-Chapter19.pdf

I am tired of typing and so I am cutting it short, sorry guys.


References:
------------
1. http://siteresources.worldbank.org/...916-1206974192224/Chapter3DancingWith2006.pdf
2. Historical and future expectation for India - http://www.usindiafriendship.net/viewpoints1/Indias_Rising_Growth_Potential.pdf (Goldman Sachs report)
3. http://www.pitt.edu/~tgrawski/papers2001/caveat.web.pdf
4. chinagdpwithROW.jpg (image)

well for your knowledge, although as you mentioned above china is an exporting based economy arguments, but china economic growth still keep 8 percent trend after ccp sucessful promoting domestic demand, and still keep a faster growth rate than indian one, how do you explain that??? You need a link?? dont make me laugh , you can find answer from even always biased western report on china estimated annual growth, note that the chinese official did not brag that their economic gowth can reach double digits under the economic crisis scenario, but i remember that there is an indian finance officer said that their economy can have 9 percent growth this year, if my memories serve me right, so then who is successful now?
and one child policy i think chinese government will make the policy loosened within five to ten years as their working age population reach climax, so it will no longer cause overpopulation problem for the society to afford the extramore resorces consumption which india suffers right now, so dont worry about china, you should look more to your indian backyard than chinese backyard..the western media are so so so proud of their much developed countries so that they have been qualified to poking their nose into chinese problem study than studying up their own messes, you must not take their reports on china too seriously....emm i also need to go now to look after my affairs , by for now!!!!!

 

[rajeev]

well for your knowledge, although as you mentioned above china is an exporting based economy arguments, but china economic growth still keep 8 percent trend after ccp sucessful promoting domestic demand, and still keep a faster growth rate than indian one, how do you explain that??? You need a link?? dont make me laugh , you can find answer from even always biased western report on china estimated annual growth, note that the chinese official did not brag that their economic gowth can reach double digits under the economic crisis scenario, but i remember that there is an indian finance officer said that their economy can have 9 percent growth this year, if my memories serve me right, so then who is successful now?

What do you mean successful domestic demand? As of now, there is no success. Chinese culturally tend to save lot more money and so it will take a lot of effort and atleast a decade even if things are implemented perfectly.

For that to be successful, government will have to provide:
a) social security like benefits
b) "free" or "free like" medical care.

and one child policy i think chinese government will make the policy loosened within five to ten years as their working age population reach climax, so it will no longer cause overpopulation problem for the society to afford the extramore resorces consumption which india suffers right now, so dont worry about china, you should look more to your indian backyard than chinese backyard..the western media are so so so proud of their much developed countries so that they have been qualified to poking their nose into chinese problem study than studying up their own messes, you must not take their reports on china too seriously....emm i also need to go now to look after my affairs , by for now!!!!!

As you would see from this image, the problem China is going to face. China has already relaxed this in some locations and for richer people on a case-by-case basis. But they are merely case by case. The damage done to the future generation is too steep.

As you are aware, huge improvement in lifespan was done during 1950-1980 and trend is positive. Human beings are living a lot longer that means, China by 2030 or so will keep on having more mouths to feed. The only way to counter that will be to have immigration which can be difficult because US and Europe will present much better alternative to an immigrant (foreign).

China wont open like Japan and would start unwinding until the next generation of kids are born.

http://www.wsichina.org/cs6_4.pdf

 

[bigmoneymaker]

And you think we care a damn what Chinese media aka Chinese govt think? You got to be kidding yourself.

India is in a very sweet spot. None of the western countries want to provide any kind of high tech weapons to China. The only counter they see to China's influence is India. So India gets free privilges and access to US and European high tech weapons that are only provided to their allies.

The other high quality producer of arms is Russia who had disputes with China before and not comfortable with Chinese rise. They provide far more access to India than any other country.

Thanks to Islamophobia and Palestine/Israel problems, Israel expects support and wishes to gain money from Indian defense purchases.

Now, if you can show me one country that can have access to US/European/Russian/Israel technologies all the same time. This relationship is flourishing inspite of Obama's anti-India feelings

China prefers quantity over quality, Indians do the reverse.

Now regarding Malayasian interference, how come you post the same material in so many posts in a span of 10 minutes. That is trolling you know and not expected of members in this forum

with that kind of siding with others while you do not have the same capability as other bullies among your so called allies will dramatically weaken your influence over other countries as you have your so called allies interests to consider in prior rather than making an effective decision of your own to safeguard your interests from all the old imperialistic countries..that alone will never allow you india to become a reliable superpower as others will never know when india will give up their interests in favour of those former colonists, this point you should know as well...YOUR diplomacy will fall into abyssal pit and in a sorry state of dilemma as you will be closely watched over by these jackals you depend upon in terms of tech, political support and most importantly cultural imports from them...compare this with your contemporary china and ask yourselves...

and dont you see my posts keep updating with additional addup each time to clarify my previous post after every post, and i want to see whether my gradually rigid and rigorous viewpoints can stand against your ousting or not . if you want to have a fair and sensible exchange rather than report it up maliciously, then it will be normal to have an open views from each side feedingback. ok, i really have to go now...

 

[blueoval79]

^^^^^

Excellent post ... beating around the bush...

 

[bigmoneymaker]

What do you mean successful domestic demand? As of now, there is no success. Chinese culturally tend to save lot more money and so it will take a lot of effort and atleast a decade even if things are implemented perfectly.

For that to be successful, government will have to provide:
a) social security like benefits
b) "free" or "free like" medical care.





As you would see from this image, the problem China is going to face. China has already relaxed this in some locations and for richer people on a case-by-case basis. But they are merely case by case. The damage done to the future generation is too steep.

As you are aware, huge improvement in lifespan was done during 1950-1980 and trend is positive. Human beings are living a lot longer that means, China by 2030 or so will keep on having more mouths to feed. The only way to counter that will be to have immigration which can be difficult because US and Europe will present much better alternative to an immigrant (foreign).

China wont open like Japan and would start unwinding until the next generation of kids are born.

http://www.wsichina.org/cs6_4.pdf

yes, all these are in present continous tense that is now happening..i did see the measures have been taken up by ccp to counter those threats as you mentioned above..those things are even mentioned and reported in their own news...ccp are now aware of it and making macroscopic control over them to be systematically and collectively to be handled as a whole socioeconomic structure shift involving another chains of properties emerging, these relevant results will come out in just next few years more, so we just leave these matters to the capable hands of ccp and wait and see then...nice discussion with you actually...

 

[bigmoneymaker]

^^^^^

Excellent post ... beating around the bush...

we almost forgot the topics of this thread!!!! thanks for reminding...gotta go now...

 

[rajeev]

with that kind of siding with others while you do not have the same capability as other bullies among your so called allies will dramatically weaken your influence over other countries as you have your so called allies interests to consider in prior rather than making an effective decision of your own to safeguard your interests from all the old imperialistic countries..that alone will never allow you india to become a reliable superpower as others will never know when india will give up their interests in favour of those former colonists, this point you should know as well...YOUR diplomacy will fall into abyssal pit and in a sorry state of dilemma as you will be closely watched over by these jackals you depend upon in terms of tech, political support and most importantly cultural imports from them...compare this with your contemporary china and ask yourselves...

and dont you see my posts keep updating with additional addup each time to clarify my previous post after every post, and i want to see whether my gradually rigid and rigorous viewpoints can stand against your ousting or not . if you want to have a fair and sensible exchange rather than report it up maliciously, then it will be normal to have an open views from each side feedingback. ok, i really have to go now...

If you have read BRIC report from Goldman, you would see that there would only three poles
1. China (70 trillion )
2. India (50 trillion)
3. US (45 trillion)

The rest are all below 10 trillion. Chinese influence will dramatically increase and there is nothing stopping that.

What my presumption, it is only a matter of time that Sukhois and Migs's parent companies would find India as a home for their business rather Russia. In addition, the declining strength of US will make it come along with India as only India and US combined can only provide a complete victory over China otherwise China would be too dominating.

If I am Indian military strategist, my goal will be to cast India as a peaceful nation and the rest will be done by world wide media. There is always a fear among the countries where there is less open media - which is the case in China. I also presume that China will be attacking Taiwan far too soon probably by 2020 or so. That would make US/China into a war path which US will shamefully pull back. This bad blood and decreasing influence of EU and fear from Japan adds a critical importance to India geo-politically.

It is upto China what kind of relation it wants from India. If confronts with India, India can stay in the current path and long behold China will more encircled like USSR was albeit at a better stage (because Chinese economy will be larger).

If China befriends India, then there is this century will be trully Asian century.

So, as I see it, India has options that no other country has. What India has to do to maintain its growth and rest will happen all on its own.