German Government To Cancel Saudi Tank Deal

[-SINAN-]

any information would be appreciated.. im not an expert on tanks. but i know for todays world they have to redefine the job and mission and capabilities of a tank.

Mate, as you know we are developing the Altay tank. The thing is we have never produced a tank before so we had zero experience in this field. So, from scratch how could we have done a 3rd generation main battle tank that can rival it's counterparts- with our zero experience ?

Turkey signed a deal with South Koreas - Rotem firm, the developer of K2 Korean MBT. We gained ToT via this deal also, Korean experts come to Turkey to help us develop our own tank.

Everything seems fine at this point...but without the necessary background we couldn't have developed this tank...or rather to say it would remain on the drawings. Now let's look at the back ground of the Altay Tank.

Otokar is Main contractor who is responsible for building the tank.
Otokar is the major car manufacturer of the Turkey, they produced 893.000 vehicles in 2013. And they have necessary facilities to develop and produce a Tank.

MKEK is responsible for producing the 20 mm 55 caliber Primary Weapon. MKEK has been established in 1950 and already producing a vast range of weaponry.

Rocketsan Produces armour, Aselsan produces fire control system and other electronic systems.

Point is we already had an Industrial base to support our project. I dunno if KSA has these abilities ? If not Turkey can help you in these areas. And can give ToT, coordinate your efforts, teach you have to build a tank from scratch.

 

[salarsikander]

Mate, as you know we are developing the Altay tank. The thing is we have never produced a tank before so we had zero experience in this field. So, from scratch how could we have done a 3rd generation main battle tank that can rival it's counterparts- with our zero experience ?

Turkey signed a deal with South Koreas - Rotem firm, the developer of K2 Korean MBT. We gained ToT via this deal also, Korean experts come to Turkey to help us develop our own tank.

Everything seems fine at this point...but without the necessary background we couldn't have developed this tank...or rather to say it would remain on the drawings. Now let's look at the back ground of the Altay Tank.

Otokar is Main contractor who is responsible for building the tank.
Otokar is the major car manufacturer of the Turkey, they produced 893.000 vehicles in 2013. And they have necessary facilities to develop and produce a Tank.

MKEK is responsible for producing the 20 mm 55 caliber Primary Weapon. MKEK has been established in 1950 and already producing a vast range of weaponry.

Rocketsan Produces armour, Aselsan produces fire control system and other electronic systems.

Point is we already had an Industrial base to support our project. I dunno if KSA has these abilities ? If not Turkey can help you in these areas. And can give ToT, coordinate your efforts, teach you have to build a tank from scratch.

Hi,
You guys used to produce lots of other equipments with collaboration, so yes there is Eco-system available to support the industrial base, Its just matter of time before turkey defense products bring difference.

In fact they have some decent indigenous products, I would love to see in Pak colours

 

[-SINAN-]

Hi,
You guys used to produce lots of other equipments with collaboration, so yes there is Eco-system available to support the industrial base, Its just matter of time before turkey defense products bring difference.

In fact they have some decent indigenous products, I would love to see in Pak colours

Mate, this collaboration issue is getting boring.

 

[Zabaniyah]

why not challenger ?? I think its also a cool toy .. what do you think @Yzd Khalifa

An over-rated tank.

 

[Rakan.SA]

Mate, as you know we are developing the Altay tank. The thing is we have never produced a tank before so we had zero experience in this field. So, from scratch how could we have done a 3rd generation main battle tank that can rival it's counterparts- with our zero experience ?

Turkey signed a deal with South Koreas - Rotem firm, the developer of K2 Korean MBT. We gained ToT via this deal also, Korean experts come to Turkey to help us develop our own tank.

Everything seems fine at this point...but without the necessary background we couldn't have developed this tank...or rather to say it would remain on the drawings. Now let's look at the back ground of the Altay Tank.

Otokar is Main contractor who is responsible for building the tank.
Otokar is the major car manufacturer of the Turkey, they produced 893.000 vehicles in 2013. And they have necessary facilities to develop and produce a Tank.

MKEK is responsible for producing the 20 mm 55 caliber Primary Weapon. MKEK has been established in 1950 and already producing a vast range of weaponry.

Rocketsan Produces armour, Aselsan produces fire control system and other electronic systems.

Point is we already had an Industrial base to support our project. I dunno if KSA has these abilities ? If not Turkey can help you in these areas. And can give ToT, coordinate your efforts, teach you have to build a tank from scratch.

nasilsin
what turkey did is the right approach and thats exactly what i meant. so saudi now needs to join turkey or pakistan and start something
tesekkurler

 

[Halimi]

I feel like ties between GCC and Turkey are totally unfulfilled. There is a lot of potential. Not only in terms of military cooperation.

GCC, Turkey and Pakistan need to get onto the same page. The collective economic, military and political potential is astounding and could bring some much needed advancement and security to not only the countries involved, but the Middle East and Central Asia broadly.

Some added political courage and dynamism is needed.

 

[My-Analogous]

What have you guys done so bad that Germans are cancelling the deal

It is internal politics of Germans nothing else.

nasilsin
what turkey did is the right approach and thats exactly what i meant. so saudi now needs to join turkey or pakistan and start something
tesekkurler

Or may be we three join together to create a beast.

 

[Echo_419]

It is internal politics of Germans nothing else.



Or may be we three join together to create a beast.

Looks like it

 

[al-Hasani]

It is internal politics of Germans nothing else.



Or may be we three join together to create a beast.

That would actually be great. Financial power, manpower and expertise. All you need to kickstart something promising.

 

[Rakan.SA]

That would actually be great. Financial power, manpower and expertise. All you need to kickstart something promising.

you know what.. lets us start our own weapons company.. i got the contacts get me the brains

 

[al-Hasani]

you know what.. lets us start our own weapons company.. i got the contacts get me the brains

If I had a few billion dollars to spare. My family might be well off but I am nowhere near those astronomical numbers.

In all seriousness then we should rather use our energy to influence the higher circles in KSA and the GCC as a whole so they can kickstart a real indigenous military sector. Preferably a joint GCC project. A groundbreaking and ambitious one.

The money is not the problem. Manpower not so much anymore. It's down to expertise and experience. The fundament in other words. One of the hardest goals. It will be difficult, painful and slow to begin with but if the right investments and dedication is put into such a project it can succeed despite outside pressure (political). Believe me.

As I have been saying for years and many others then just offer contracts that cannot be refused and get all the best "weapons engineers" from across the world. Or leading at least. Get former experts out of retirement too so they can serve as supervisors.

Get them from the US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, Japan, South Korea etc.

This needs to be done sooner rather than later. As soon as this is done hundreds of locals will reach a similar level of knowledge and then they can teach their local successors what they learnt. Think about it for a second.

KAUST, all those upcoming industrial cities etc. are not getting built for foreign countries to gain huge profits in terms of exports. They are geared towards internal growth and self-sufficiency.

Anyway I am sure that the GCC is pressured by USA and the West on this front. Allies or not. After all a large portion of their revenue in terms of military exports is coming from nowhere else but GCC. Of course they have no interest in seeing the GCC becoming self-sufficient on this front. It's simple.

Meanwhile a country like China would have no such problems. In fact I imagine that they would be very eager to help GCC on this front. Of course this would not happen for free politically speaking.
They are in need of partners from the outside and regions outside of Sub-Saharan Africa where they can establish themselves and create long-standing allies. The main trading partner of the GCC is China but nevertheless the GCC is in the Western camp. Evident by all those US bases in the region.

The new government should really think about this subject closely. Together with their GCC counterparts and allies but without alienating powerful allies who could make life difficult for us. It's all about the right balance.

I would be interested to hear your opinion brother.

Same with @Gasoline @Mosamania @JUBA @Bubblegum Crisis @Full Moon @Altamimi etc.

So please spare 2 minutes of your time to read this post and a few more to make a reply. Looking forward to it..

 

[Ahmed Jo]

@al-Hasani "Anyway I am sure that the GCC is pressured by USA and the West on this front." spot on. And in turn, the USA and EU is pressured by Israel to do this. They didn't even want Jordan to have a nuclear program even if it was for peaceful purposes. In the end we had to go to Russia to finally get away from American/Israeli influence. China is an excellent choice btw and I think king Salman knows this.

Israel really doesn't want any neighboring countries to be self-reliant militarily so they always have to rely on the US government which is controlled by Israel.

 

[Rakan.SA]

If I had a few billion dollars to spare. My family might be well off but I am nowhere near those astronomical numbers.

In all seriousness then we should rather use our energy to influence the higher circles in KSA and the GCC as a whole so they can kickstart a real indigenous military sector. Preferably a joint GCC project. A groundbreaking and ambitious one.

The money is not the problem. Manpower not so much anymore. It's down to expertise and experience. The fundament in other words. One of the hardest goals. It will be difficult, painful and slow to begin with but if the right investments and dedication is put into such a project it can succeed despite outside pressure (political). Believe me.

As I have been saying for years and many others then just offer contracts that cannot be refused and get all the best "weapons engineers" from across the world. Or leading at least. Get former experts out of retirement too so they can serve as supervisors.

Get them from the US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, Japan, South Korea etc.

This needs to be done sooner rather than later. As soon as this is done hundreds of locals will reach a similar level of knowledge and then they can teach their local successors what they learnt. Think about it for a second.

KAUST, all those upcoming industrial cities etc. are not getting built for foreign countries to gain huge profits in terms of exports. They are geared towards internal growth and self-sufficiency.

Anyway I am sure that the GCC is pressured by USA and the West on this front. Allies or not. After all a large portion of their revenue in terms of military exports is coming from nowhere else but GCC. Of course they have no interest in seeing the GCC becoming self-sufficient on this front. It's simple.

Meanwhile a country like China would have no such problems. In fact I imagine that they would be very eager to help GCC on this front. Of course this would not happen for free politically speaking.
They are in need of partners from the outside and regions outside of Sub-Saharan Africa where they can establish themselves and create long-standing allies. The main trading partner of the GCC is China but nevertheless the GCC is in the Western camp. Evident by all those US bases in the region.

The new government should really think about this subject closely. Together with their GCC counterparts and allies but without alienating powerful allies who could make life difficult for us. It's all about the right balance.

I would be interested to hear your opinion brother.

Same with @Gasoline @Mosamania @JUBA @Bubblegum Crisis @Full Moon @Altamimi etc.

So please spare 2 minutes of your time to read this post and a few more to make a reply. Looking forward to it..

inshallah i really wanna get into this field of business. trust me im not rich. but i told you im a hustler.

 

[Mosamania]

If I had a few billion dollars to spare. My family might be well off but I am nowhere near those astronomical numbers.

In all seriousness then we should rather use our energy to influence the higher circles in KSA and the GCC as a whole so they can kickstart a real indigenous military sector. Preferably a joint GCC project. A groundbreaking and ambitious one.

The money is not the problem. Manpower not so much anymore. It's down to expertise and experience. The fundament in other words. One of the hardest goals. It will be difficult, painful and slow to begin with but if the right investments and dedication is put into such a project it can succeed despite outside pressure (political). Believe me.

As I have been saying for years and many others then just offer contracts that cannot be refused and get all the best "weapons engineers" from across the world. Or leading at least. Get former experts out of retirement too so they can serve as supervisors.

Get them from the US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, Japan, South Korea etc.

This needs to be done sooner rather than later. As soon as this is done hundreds of locals will reach a similar level of knowledge and then they can teach their local successors what they learnt. Think about it for a second.

KAUST, all those upcoming industrial cities etc. are not getting built for foreign countries to gain huge profits in terms of exports. They are geared towards internal growth and self-sufficiency.

Anyway I am sure that the GCC is pressured by USA and the West on this front. Allies or not. After all a large portion of their revenue in terms of military exports is coming from nowhere else but GCC. Of course they have no interest in seeing the GCC becoming self-sufficient on this front. It's simple.

Meanwhile a country like China would have no such problems. In fact I imagine that they would be very eager to help GCC on this front. Of course this would not happen for free politically speaking.
They are in need of partners from the outside and regions outside of Sub-Saharan Africa where they can establish themselves and create long-standing allies. The main trading partner of the GCC is China but nevertheless the GCC is in the Western camp. Evident by all those US bases in the region.

The new government should really think about this subject closely. Together with their GCC counterparts and allies but without alienating powerful allies who could make life difficult for us. It's all about the right balance.

I would be interested to hear your opinion brother.

Same with @Gasoline @Mosamania @JUBA @Bubblegum Crisis @Full Moon @Altamimi etc.

So please spare 2 minutes of your time to read this post and a few more to make a reply. Looking forward to it..

You can forget about a joint GCC anything anytime soon. Also KAUST and stuff will slowly disappear into nothingness. It takes only two weeks to destroy 10 years of hard work you know.

 

[beast89]

@al-Hasani "Anyway I am sure that the GCC is pressured by USA and the West on this front." spot on. And in turn, the USA and EU is pressured by Israel to do this. They didn't even want Jordan to have a nuclear program even if it was for peaceful purposes. In the end we had to go to Russia to finally get away from American/Israeli influence. China is an excellent choice btw and I think king Salman knows this.

Israel really doesn't want any neighboring countries to be self-reliant militarily so they always have to rely on the US government which is controlled by Israel.

It is good news at Egypt is buying Russian jets. Hopefully more arab countries buy high tech Russian or Chinese arms.