German Chancellor Angela Merkel's historical China map flap

[Viet]

I mean the power of trade and business, not military power.

okay

well, ancient China was very sceptical to business people. they stood at the bottom of social ladder. foreign trades were very limited or forbidden. most Chinese business people did it illegally or settled down permanently in overseas.

 

[Snomannen]

exactly...China thought it had reached the top of the world, there was nothing, no need to learn from the foreigners. In some extents, that was true. The Ming dynasty was one of the greatest periods of Chinese history. China high-sea fleet was scrapped, residents of coastal cities were relocated to inner areas, foreign trades were forbidden. the self imposed isolation, later continued with the Qing, brought China nothing, but the root of the century of humiliation.

China failed to catch up with the modernization, completely missed the industrialization age.

as for Vietnam, sure, that is your credit. Vietnam was civilized. But very curious, Chinese are against it when Vietnam stepped out of the border to bring peace and stability in the neighborhood, and civilized the barbarians.

Nah, it was the Ming Dynasty that ruined Song, Jing and Yuan Dynasty's contribution to seafaring, mathematical, astronomy and other achievements. Ming is actually one of the most horrible Chinese dynasties.

If you read the book (on google book) I gave you few week ago, you can see the differences between Ming and Qing, the trade in Qing is much more larger than Ming.

To be fair, back in those days, all of the big empires (such as Ottoman, Mughal...) in the world were perished by the Westerners. It was not easy for China to maintain most of its territory and not being colonized by vile colonialists~

Meh, Vietnam is just a mini version of China~

okay

well, ancient China was very sceptical to business people. they stood at the bottom of social ladder. foreign trades were very limited or forbidden. most Chinese business people did it illegally or settled down permanently in overseas.

Back in those days, Chinese people were well known as honest businessmen.
Sigh, they say reputation cannot be restored that easily.

 

[BoQ77]

Throughout history, our dynasties from Han, Song, Ming, early Qing are considered world power and we dominated the economic landscape. Our navy was the best during the Ming dynasty. The Ming Dynasty navies kick the living shit of Portuguese in the Battle of Tamao. We even defeated Japan in the Imjin War. Learn history, dumbass.

Honestly, you must be a dumbass. Italy is not even worth an opponent and not even worth our time to fight. You are an ant nation man. fucking 2nd rate Euro state that loot off the success of the real Euro power like UK, Germany, and France. LOLOL.

Let me correct you.
Yuan is Mongol ruled, an alien race ruled the Han people ...
Qing is the same, you Han people must be very angry when they force you follow their pigtail hairstyle ...

 

[Jlaw]

EU powers don't respect our military power but the UK sure scare the living shit out of them when we threaten to take back HK by force during the negotiation with Margaret Thatcher. LOL.

During talks with Thatcher, China planned to invade and seize Hong Kong if the negotiations set off unrest in the colony. Thatcher later said that Deng told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that "I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon". Thatcher replied that "there is nothing I could do to stop you, but the eyes of the world would now know what China is like"

My father read that news piece for me. I remember that. UK wanted to extend the lease which angered Deng. Afterwards Thatcher was never the same iron lady.

Your history is meaningless for us. Your history was never great on a world scale. The fact that the japanese troops marched through your country like a snow plow thrugh mud shows me your capabilty.

As for Italy, it is more powerful than China through many aspects.

1. We are part of the EU
2. Vatican holds more power and influence than China.

We are a creative and positive force. China is not creative. You develop nothing new. Nothing ground breaking. :/ The lack of imagination was always a problem for China. Maybe its the lack of individualism?

Isn't that the problem with Europeans? Your argument is "we" combined is more powerful than x. Chinese are independent nation. In China it is "I" am powerful than x.

 

[Snomannen]

Let me correct you.
Yuan is Mongol ruled, an alien race ruled the Han people ...
Qing is the same, you Han people must be very angry when they force you follow their pigtail hairstyle ...

1. There were even Mongolian slaves owned by Han people during the Yuan dynasty;
2. Most of the High-ranking officials were Han.

And if you check the history, you will find out that people in Shang dynasty weared "pigtail" too.

 

[Viet]

Nah, it was the Ming Dynasty that ruined the contribution of seafaring, mathematical, astronomy and other achievements from Song, Jing and Yuan Dynasty. Ming is actually one of the most horrible Chinese dynasty.

If you read the book (on google book) I gave you few week ago, you can see the differences between Ming and Qing, the trade in Qing is much more better than Ming.

To be fair, back in those days, all of the big empires (such as Ottoman, Mughal...) in the world were perished by the Westerners. It was not easy for China to maintain most of its territory and not being colonized by vile colonialists~

Meh, Vietnam is just a mini version of China~

Back in those days, Chinese people were well known as honest businessmen.
Sigh, they say reputation cannot be restored that easily.

my bad, I haven´t read the book you recommended me until yet.
however, I bought a book recommended by wholegrain "Vietnam borderless history". good stuff.

looks I need to re-read the history of China, especially about the Ming.

sure, Empires rise and fall. But the history of Vietnam (and China) would have taken another path if Qing China supported Vietnam in the struggle against the French in the first France-Vietnam war.

It is said the first overseas Chinese business in SE Asia was set up in Hoi An during the Ming dynasty, a small sea town in central Vietnam. Many Chinese today in Penang, Singapore, Malacca and Jakarta can trace their forefather back to Hoi An.

 

[bolo]

Actually the Ming Dynasty was the biggest power in East South Asia and keep doing business with its neighbors before the Spanish and Portuguese came and conquered some of the East South countries.

then the 3rd emperor scrapped the navy, which proved to be a very bad mistake.

 

[EastSea]

I mean the power of trade and business, not military power.


Sigh, this nonsense again.

(Inner) Mongolian and Manchurian are Chinese, besides Mongolian and Manchurian had to adopt Han's culture in order to maintain and run the Chinese Empire. The Yuan rulers even claimed the heir of the old Chinese dynasties.

Yes, Yuan (Mongolian) claimed that they are your daddy.

 

[rott]

Yes, Yuan (Mongolian) claimed that they are your daddy.

Every thread I see you mention the word "daddy". Are you short of a "daddy"?

 

[TheTruth]

this is laughable and the typical asian problem. You believe opression generates peace. This is wrong, it creates hate and conflict and is tze main reason tzat asia always was subordinate to others.

You dont understand reality. We took entire ukraine, russia just small crimea. Thats the fact. I wont comment on india. because india is a very poor nation and depends on food aid. I think its a good thing to help indians to be able to feed their children.

Considering the fact that we push our culture on you, that you write in an indo european language here and use only our technology...well yes, we totally dominate you.

No one here is eating pizza and wearing your silly 16th century wigs, Mario. Without Chinese technology, you'd be in the Stone Age. Without Euro technology, China would still be fine. I also speak three other languages, so you're going to have to share the "dominance". China could wreck the West's economy and feel absolutely nothing. You pay hundreds of billions in interest to China every single year.

You dominate no one. In fact Japan produces more patents than the EU and even has half your total wealth.

 

[EastSea]

Every thread I see you mention the word "daddy". Are you short of a "daddy"?

Its reported that to be a daddy we are long enough.

 

[Snomannen]

Yes, Yuan (Mongolian) claimed that they are your daddy.

建國號詔

誕膺景命，奄四海以宅尊﹔必有美名，紹百王而紀統。肇從隆古，匪獨我家。且唐之為言蕩也，堯以之而著稱﹔虞之為言樂也，舜因之而作號。馴至禹興而湯造，互 名夏大以殷中，世降以還，事殊非古。雖乘時而有國，不以利而制稱。為秦為漢者，著從初起之地名﹔曰隋曰唐者，因即所封之爵邑。且皆徇百姓見聞之偶習，要一 時經制之權宜，概以至公，不無少貶。我太祖聖武皇帝，握乾符而起朔土，以神武而膺帝圖，四震天聲，大恢土宇，輿圖之廣，歷古所無。頃者耆宿詣庭，奏草申 請，謂既成於大業，宜早定於鴻名。在古制以當然，於朕心乎何有！可建國號曰大元，蓋取《易經》乾元之義，茲大冶流形於庶品，孰名資始之功。予一人底寧於萬 邦，尤切體仁之要，事從因革，道協天人。於戲！稱義而名，固非為之溢美﹔孚休惟永，尚不負於投艱。嘉與敷天，共隆大號！



From this proclamation of the founding of Yuan dynasty, we can see that Yuan ruler claimed the succession of former Chinese dynasties from Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors to Tang dynasty~



Hmm, I wonder in which literature Yuan claimed that they are someone's daddy .

 

[EastSea]

lol, no, I think he sarcastically mean he's not short of a daddy
I found his post funny.

I think, your English is better than him.

 

[Akasa]

historical maps is always outdated... with another outdated map.. china trying to steel others territories. .

Outdated maps are only to be disregarded if there is an agreement including the subject country to change such territories, but it also serves as proof that one piece of land was inhabited by a certain people or as a token of sovereignty.

 

[BoQ77]

1. There were even Mongolian slaves owned by Han people during the Yuan dynasty;
2. Most of the High-ranking officials were Han.

And if you check the history, you will find out that people in Shang dynasty weared "pigtail" too.

Can you find me some comment of Han at the time ... when they were forced to follow pigtail style ?
I heard that they felt so shame ...

And then it's time for some high ranking officials secretly cut their pigtail for Western hairstyle

How the Han people feel, when the Mongols defeated the Dynasty ruled by Han people ...
It's not true that they consider Mongols as enemy ? then those Mongols created Yuan dynasty ?

Chinese pals, you don't know that some patriotic Song soldiers and generals moved down to Great Viet as refugees and accepted as guests. They also fight Yuan invasion to Vietnam as Song force...
While several former Song soldiers and generals continue to work for Yuan during three time of Yuan invasion to Vietnam ( we call those as Han jian - pls correct me ).
FYI, we defeated all three times of Mongol Yuan invasion to Vietnam.
Anyway, Song dynasty too weak so that alien tribe could defeat them and kick *** Han emperor

1. There were even Mongolian slaves owned by Han people during the Yuan dynasty;
2. Most of the High-ranking officials were Han.

And if you check the history, you will find out that people in Shang dynasty weared "pigtail" too.

There're some High-ranking officials work for Japanese during WW 2 were Han
What if Nowaday Mongolia defeat PRC and say that they're successor of PRC ... LOL