Mis-stated premises: the senior staff of the Pakistan Army (or the Pak Army, if you prefer) spent months plotting and planning this adventure. Thereafter, there were these efforts at convincing the outside world, even of the sister services, that these were merely irregulars and volunteers of the Pak Army, as if we had not been hardened by the Pakistani interpretation of 'volunteering' in 1948, in 1965 and in Afghanistan.
As for logistical support and backup, if we are being told that these 'volunteers' and 'irregulars' marched up to these posts, poured in liquid cement and made them bunkers, and then, in the dead of winter, ploughed the stone summits, grew crops, harvested them and converted them into nutritious food sufficient to hold out for weeks, then the miracle of the loaves and fishes seems to have happened again on the peaks of Kargil.
Might I ask, hesitantly...what do you call that?
What you believe to be an exercise planned over some months was actually a response to Siachin and was planned a long time ago. We make our efforts and you make yours, whereas ours is usually for the world to focus on Kashmir and the plight of Kashmiri people, yours is usually on hiding your atrocities and inhumane treatment of an illegally occupied property.
Please allow me to enlighten you, as you appear to be more confused than your compatriots usually are. The bunkers were already there, the infrastructure was already there.......some trenches were dug creating new hideouts but basically the bases were already there. These bases were established by Indian forces who used to surrender these positions to extreme weather conditions. All the irregulars needed was edibles to last them a few months, which it did.
It reads as if you are losing your temper, or have lost your temper.
That is a distinct possibility, an incapacity for logical reasoning on my part, and has been very helpfully pointed out by Pakistanis and Indians alike, with greater or lesser urgency. I acknowledge the possibility and hope to live until brain and reasoning transplants are possible. At the moment, this looks bleak, and it is unfortunately the case that what you see is what you'll get.
Sorry. I do wish I had more intelligent parents, and next time around, will try to choose better.
It is a general experience that I have with Indians. Where matters of state are concerned, they usually throw out all logic and reasoning, happens to the best of us. However, for the sake of arguments and for a fair, unadulterated and non corrupted conclusion, I wanted to clear the air.
I believe that all positions have been recovered except three. Does that change the situation to a near-victory, or even a complete victory, for Pakistan and the, err, Pak Army?
Correct, all but 4-5 positions are now occupied by Indian forces. You must, however, recall that many of these were evacuated and left by our non-regulars when they were ordered to retreat. It's not as if India militarily recovered all those positions. Matter of fact is, India was unable to recapture all the positions that it held pre-Kargil. That is not a complete victory but it does tell us a lot, doesn't it?
Besides, do you even know the actual aim to capture Kargil peaks, other than a response to Siachin? It was to seek global attention to Kashmir, a place over which we have already fought over 3 wars.
Must we continue with this fairy tale that even Pakistani school-children would laugh at? This was a full-scope military adventure in the grand tradition by the Pak (sic) Army.
No logistical support line was established once the peaks were occupied, period! It was not meant to be a full-scope military adventure, it was meant to be a small tactical mission to achieve long term peace.
I believe that these failures have been taken into account in training, and pilots are now being taught to land supersonic jet fighters on mountain peaks. The next time around, we are thinking of trying the Navy as well. It is time that they understood what the poor foot-soldier has to go through, while they go skylarking around from foreign port to port.
So much effort, where replacement of IAF with IM would have sufficed.
Let me guess: it could become Afghanistan?
That's no surprise......wrong again!!
Drat. Wrong guess.
I suppose since they weren't regulars, such a fate need have bothered no one. 5,000 here, 10,000 there; what's a couple of thousand soldiers between friends? Easy-peasy.
No wonder you win all your wars.
That is actually correct, for a pleasant change. Soldiers, especially volunteers are prepared for martyrdom. Nations are forged on the sacrifices of their soldiers and our soldiers are prepared to lay down their lives for the motherland.
The saddest part is, you still failed to understand the point.
I ALWAYS suspected that Kaisar Tufail was actually a false-flagging Bhutanese! Thanks for confirming that his account was fake, and what you have narrated is the correct story. Just imagine, having to cook up a story to account for the singular absence of the PAF, and all he could come up with was ..... spares! Send him back to Bhutan by the next fast frigate!
Gosh, if only IAF was aware of Kaisar Tufail before/during Kargil operation, they would have actually dared to cross over and engage PAF. Too bad, opportunity lost, it is a wonder that IAF did not dare cross the LoC, except for those 2 times, otherwise the super advanced alien thrashing technology would have annihilated PAF, and then some.
One down due to engine failure, one down due to MANPAD fire. We are now counting engine failure as military victory? One lives and learns....Oh, wait! we already finished discussing an incapacity for logical reasoning!
Let's just say that both were down due to engine failure.......after all, the other jet too lost its engine, right?
Not to mention pigs. All they have to do is grow wings and they can fly. How about the Spartans and Philip II? Remind me to tell you the story some time (I have told it already, but it never lessens in impact on re-telling.
Naturally, your five-man bunkers in cramped spaces were all built to replace bunk beds with double storied bunks.
Like there was ever a need, I mean how about adding some bionic time travelling cows to the story?? Would round up a nice little ending for super India.
This is perhaps the most significant military aspect of your analysis. It takes us back to the glorious French victory over the Russians; most of the Grand Army died during retreat. Or the French again, exiting Spain and the Peninsular War. Most of the Imperial Army was lost in retreat.
My fingers tremble with excitement as I turn to the pages of history. Elphinstone's glorious and victorious campaign in the First Afghan War; most of the casualties suffered in retreat. Further back, we have Artaxerxes' grand triumph over Alexander III of Macedon; most of Artaxerxes' army, in his two confrontations with Alexander, suffered their casualties in retreat. The Mahdi's army defending Khartoum; most of the casualties suffered in retreat.
We have re-discovered military history.
So you are capable of posting normal paragraphs between fits of nonsense.
What we established here is that Indian Military with 35k Army and 10+ squadrons of IAF was unable to cause noticeable damage or loss to non-regulars.
Just a few lines up you conceded that atleast 3 posts are still held by Pakistan. Now you want to dispute that, make up your mind already.
We saw a while earlier what this famous victory was about. The whole world knows what happened, and who rescued whom.
Thanks for watching the video I posted and acceding to my post.
Is that what serendipity is all about?
I guess it depends on the way you look at things.
What is a Dharam Veer Chakker and who was this person? Is it going to join PA legend?
Param Vir Chakra / Dharam Veer Chakker, basically as useless as your post here.
