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Gen Zia - Man behind Defeat of USSR in Afghanistan

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I think Afghanistan is the graveyard for the Superpower who attempted to conquer this place.

In the past there was USSR, maybe US will be the next in the future. Who know.

That is an urban myth you know.

Without the support of US, we wouldn't be able to even make the Soviets feel as if there was an insurgency. Plus, if they wanted, they could have brutally raped Pakistan.

- T-Faz

However the western support for Zia made it very difficult to dispose of him until an infamous incident occurred.

Are you talking about this ?

Ojhri Camp
 
During his rule, Pakistan experienced no suicide bombing, no bomb blasts, no drone attacks, no target killings, and no separitist groups. Peace in all areas of Pakistan. Pakistan was respected in the world. Pakistanis very proud of being Pakistanis. Pakistan's economy was stable and was successful. Pakistan reached a GDP growth rate of 8.71 during his rule, the 5th largest GDP growth rate in the history of Pakistan.

he created the suicide bombers and so how will there be any such activity in his time?

They were all busy in Afghanistan.

Now, they are biting the hand that fed them!

The Pakistani economy under Zia benefited from a number of special factors, both domestic and external. The completion of the long gestation period Indus Basin Tarbela Dam helped unleash an unprecedented agricultural growth, while fertilizer and cement investments undertaken under Bhutto contributed to the industrial growth. Yet this would not have been sufficient for the high rates of growth or reduced the pressure on Zia to raise resources for investment. A tremendous boost to economic activity was provided by rising worker remittances, which rose to a peak of US $3 billion in 1982-83. In 1982-83, these remittances were equivalent to 10% of the gross national product of Pakistan. Zia also successfully negotiated with USA for larger external assistance, unprecedented in the history of Pakistan. In addition to direct assistance to Pakistan, the United States and allies funneled about US $5-7 billion to the Afghan Mujahedins through Pakistan, providing further boost to the local economy. Similarly, the narcotic trade which gathered momentum in the 1980s strongly supported the service sector of the economy.

Unlike Ayub, Zia did not have a clear long-term vision about the economic future nor a long-term strategy.
The Crisis in the Pakistan Economy

A man dead 20 years ago!

World events are not Instant Coffee!

There is gestation time.
 
He is my hero too upto certain extent...wherever he did good for the pplz and the country ...:)

Yes same here. He banned my favorite singers, Nazia and Zoheb Hassan, from singing together on Pakistan televsion for a short period of time. However, I still have great respect for General Zia-ul-Haq for saving the country. If there is no Pakistan, then there is no Pakistanis.
 
No bomb blasts, ate you sure, thousands died in bomb blasts.

I present to you news articles of final years of Zia's rule and the soviet war in afghanistan.

Zia Blames Kabul for Terrorist Blast in Pakistan

The Washington Post | July 16, 1987 | Richard M. Weintraub |

President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq today linked two massive terrorist bombings that killed at least 72 here last night to agents opposed to Pakistan's support for Afghan guerrillas fighting against the Kabul regime and Soviet forces there.

Business and government life came to a halt in reaction to the bombings, which also left 140 hospitalized, including 15 listed in critical condition tonight.

Zia, who flew to Karachi today from Islamabad, was able to visit survivors in only one of two major hospitals because angry students were demonstrating at the other.

Zia Blames Kabul for Terrorist Blast in Pakistan - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Pakistan's Premier Points At India in Fatal Bombings

The Washington Post | July 17, 1987 | Richard M. Weintraub |

Pakistani Prime Minister Mohammed Khan Junejo said tonight that India and not Afghanistan may have been behind the two car bombings Tuesday that killed at least 72 persons here.

Junejo, who cut short a state visit to Japan to rush back to Karachi, appeared to be distancing himself from President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq, who said yesterday that he believed the bombing was related to Pakistan's support for Afghan refugees and that recent bombings were "only the beginning" of a severe test for this country.

The two bomb blasts, and earlier ones in Rawalpindi, Lahore, and Peshawar

Bombs kill 7 as Pakistani opposition hits Zia's rule

Chicago Sun-Times | July 6, 1987 | Copyright

KARACHI A series of bombs killed seven people and wounded at least 50 Sunday in Pakistan as opposition parties held protest rallies to mark the 10th anniversary of a coup that brought President Mohammad Zia ul-Haq to power.

Police said the explosions came around midday in Lahore.

ZIA TIES AFGHANS TO KARACHI BLASTS AS THE TOLL INCREASES TO 75 DEATHS

KARACHI, Pakistan - President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq said yesterday that Afghan agents were responsible for bombings Tuesday that killed 75 persons. It was the deadliest terrorist bombing in Pakistan's history.

Police and rescue workers, meanwhile, removed the last of the bodies from the wreckage of the fashionable Saddar market and residential area, which was teeming with shoppers, commuters and street vendors when the bombs exploded. More than 300 people were injured.

At Karachi's two central hospitals, relatives tried to identify victims from photographs posted on bulletin boards.

The rest of Pakistan's largest city was virtually shut down, as officials

KGB: War between India and Pakistan

This is an untold spy story culled out from the files of KGB spy Vasili Mitrokhin. But this story you won't find in the recently published The Mitrokhin Archive II by Christopher Andrew. Outlook has accessed it from the documents which had been out in the public domain. Believe it or not, in 1981, the KGB resident in Delhi proposed that another war between India and Pakistan would be advantageous for the Soviet Union and the Babrak Karmal regime in Afghanistan, and that India and Pakistan "must be steered in that direction".

"The KGB carried out active measures jointly with the Hungarians, who were in operational contact with an Indian hack based in Vienna."

It was in December 1979 that the Russians had invaded Afghanistan and installed Babrak Karmal as president.

The proposal to provoke a war between India and Pakistan is included in a paper that Mitrokhin presented in 2002 to the Cold War International History Project based in Washington. This material, however, is separate from the information from KGB files he referred to in the 1999 book co-authored with Cambridge scholar Christopher Andrew or even The Mitrokhin Archive II.

www.outlookindia.com | KGB Diary
 
Moscow's "Invisible War' Of Terror Inside Pakistan

The Washington Post | March 13, 1988 | Lally Weymouth | Copyright

Last July 14, a remote-control device triggered three car-bomb explosions in Karachi, killing 72 Pakistanis and injuring 260. Then, on September 19, a bomb exploded at a bus stop in Rawalpindi, killing five and injuring 19.

These brutal bombings provide just two examples of Moscow's secret war of terror against Pakistan. The Soviet-directed campaign began in the early 1980s, in an effort to pressure Pakistan to stop providing a base of operations for the mujaheddin in Afghanistan, and it has escalated sharply during the last two years. It is a dirty war-waged mostly against …

Moscow's "Invisible War' Of Terror Inside Pakistan - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Diplomatic Flurry Over Afghan War Sets Off Speculation; Soviet Visits Kabul; Armacost in Pakistan

The Washington Post | January 5, 1988 | Celestine Bohlen |

Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze left here today on an unexpected visit to Kabul, raising speculation about a possible Soviet diplomatic move in the eight-year-old war in Afghanistan.

The Soviet news agency Tass gave no details on the trip, which it described as a "working visit." Shevardnadze was last in Afghanistan a year ago, shortly before the Kabul government announced a policy of national reconciliation.

Shevardnadze's trip coincides with a visit to Pakistan by U.S. Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Michael H. Armacost, who discussed diplomatic …

Diplomatic Flurry Over Afghan War Sets Off Speculation; Soviet Visits Kabul; Armacost in Pakistan - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

KEY SOVIET AIDE TO MEET AFGHANS IN PAKISTAN

The Boston Globe (Boston, MA) | January 4, 1989 | Associated Press

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The Soviet official in charge of settling the Afghan war is scheduled to arrive here today in his search for political arrangements that will enable the Soviets to get all their troops out of Afghanistan in six weeks as scheduled.

Foreign Ministry sources said the official, Yuli Vorontsov, is to spend four days in Pakistan, meeting with government officials and Afghan insurgent leaders.

Vorontsov is both the Soviet Union's first deputy foreign minister and its ambassador to Afghanistan. He met with guerrilla leaders a month ago in Saudi Arabia

KEY SOVIET AIDE TO MEET AFGHANS IN PAKISTAN - The Boston Globe (Boston, MA) | Encyclopedia.com


Soviet, Pakistan talks begin

Chicago Sun-Times | February 7, 1987 | Copyright

MOSCOW The Soviet Union and Pakistan yesterday began a new round of talks on Afghanistan, and Asian diplomats in Moscow expressed cautious optimism on prospects for agreements resulting in a withdrawal of Soviet forces.

Pakistani officials said Foreign Minister Sahabzada Yaqub Khan had three hours of talks with Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard A. Shevardnadze. No details were released, and officials said the two men would meet again today.

Yaqub Khan will be followed to

Soviet, Pakistan talks begin - Chicago Sun-Times | Encyclopedia.com

Afghan Talks Recess in Stalemate;Pakistan Awaits a Soviet Decision on Future of Kabul Regime

The Washington Post | March 11, 1987 | Richard M. Weintraub | Copyright

Despite the optimism expressed by U.N. mediators in Geneva, the abrupt end of the latest round of talks on Afghanistan without significant progress reflected the unwillingness of the Soviet Union so far to make the "hard decisions" necessary to end the seven-year-long conflict, according to Pakistani officials who have been following the negotiations closely.

While Moscow has considerably shortened the time span of a possible troop withdrawal, its position, as presented by Afghan negotiators in Geneva, still falls short of anything that would be acceptable to Pakistan or the United

Afghan Talks Recess in Stalemate;Pakistan Awaits a Soviet Decision on Future of Kabul Regime - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

See the exact same pattern of talks with the insurgents and withdrawal, but with bombing in Pakistan to stop them helping the insurgents. I just hope we are able to pull through this one aswell.
 
No bomb blasts, ate you sure, thousands died in bomb blasts.

I present to you news articles of final years of Zia's rule and the soviet war in afghanistan.

Zia Blames Kabul for Terrorist Blast in Pakistan

The Washington Post | July 16, 1987 | Richard M. Weintraub |

President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq today linked two massive terrorist bombings that killed at least 72 here last night to agents opposed to Pakistan's support for Afghan guerrillas fighting against the Kabul regime and Soviet forces there.

Business and government life came to a halt in reaction to the bombings, which also left 140 hospitalized, including 15 listed in critical condition tonight.

Zia, who flew to Karachi today from Islamabad, was able to visit survivors in only one of two major hospitals because angry students were demonstrating at the other.

Zia Blames Kabul for Terrorist Blast in Pakistan - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Pakistan's Premier Points At India in Fatal Bombings

The Washington Post | July 17, 1987 | Richard M. Weintraub |

Pakistani Prime Minister Mohammed Khan Junejo said tonight that India and not Afghanistan may have been behind the two car bombings Tuesday that killed at least 72 persons here.

Junejo, who cut short a state visit to Japan to rush back to Karachi, appeared to be distancing himself from President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq, who said yesterday that he believed the bombing was related to Pakistan's support for Afghan refugees and that recent bombings were "only the beginning" of a severe test for this country.

The two bomb blasts, and earlier ones in Rawalpindi, Lahore, and Peshawar

Bombs kill 7 as Pakistani opposition hits Zia's rule

Chicago Sun-Times | July 6, 1987 | Copyright

KARACHI A series of bombs killed seven people and wounded at least 50 Sunday in Pakistan as opposition parties held protest rallies to mark the 10th anniversary of a coup that brought President Mohammad Zia ul-Haq to power.

Police said the explosions came around midday in Lahore.

ZIA TIES AFGHANS TO KARACHI BLASTS AS THE TOLL INCREASES TO 75 DEATHS

KARACHI, Pakistan - President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq said yesterday that Afghan agents were responsible for bombings Tuesday that killed 75 persons. It was the deadliest terrorist bombing in Pakistan's history.

Police and rescue workers, meanwhile, removed the last of the bodies from the wreckage of the fashionable Saddar market and residential area, which was teeming with shoppers, commuters and street vendors when the bombs exploded. More than 300 people were injured.

At Karachi's two central hospitals, relatives tried to identify victims from photographs posted on bulletin boards.

The rest of Pakistan's largest city was virtually shut down, as officials

KGB: War between India and Pakistan

This is an untold spy story culled out from the files of KGB spy Vasili Mitrokhin. But this story you won't find in the recently published The Mitrokhin Archive II by Christopher Andrew. Outlook has accessed it from the documents which had been out in the public domain. Believe it or not, in 1981, the KGB resident in Delhi proposed that another war between India and Pakistan would be advantageous for the Soviet Union and the Babrak Karmal regime in Afghanistan, and that India and Pakistan "must be steered in that direction".

"The KGB carried out active measures jointly with the Hungarians, who were in operational contact with an Indian hack based in Vienna."

It was in December 1979 that the Russians had invaded Afghanistan and installed Babrak Karmal as president.

The proposal to provoke a war between India and Pakistan is included in a paper that Mitrokhin presented in 2002 to the Cold War International History Project based in Washington. This material, however, is separate from the information from KGB files he referred to in the 1999 book co-authored with Cambridge scholar Christopher Andrew or even The Mitrokhin Archive II.

www.outlookindia.com | KGB Diary

These cases are like a walk in a park compared to what is happening in Pakistan under Zardari's rule 20 years after General Zia Ul Haq's death.

When did Pakistan not experience violence in its 63 year old history?

Suicide bombings, target killings, separatist movements, and all the crap thats happening today in Pakistan was not heard of back in Zia-ul-Haq's time.
 
If it was the HINDU Tamils who were the first modern group to perfect suicide bombing, and General Zia had no connection with HINDU Tamils whatsoever.

History of the suicide bomber harks back to Tamils - World Politics, World - The Independent

Lol @ this man.

LTTE had Hindus,Christians, Muslims - all among them.But then its hardly surprising coming from a bigot like you.

And I know history is your weak point - But do me a favour and google Kamikaze attacks and their relevance to suicide bombing.
 
Lets see.

General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq
203px-Zia_ul_haq.jpg

6th President of Pakistan
In office from 16 September 1978 – 17 August 1988

During his rule, Pakistan experienced no suicide bombing, no bomb blasts, no drone attacks, no target killings, and no separitist groups. Peace in all areas of Pakistan. Pakistan was respected in the world. Pakistanis very proud of being Pakistanis. Pakistan's economy was stable and was successful. Pakistan reached a GDP growth rate of 8.71 during his rule, the 5th largest GDP growth rate in the history of Pakistan.

800px-Pakistan_gdp_growth_rate.svg.png



After his death, Benazir Bhutto and then Nawaz Sharif came to power. The economy dropped but the country was still peaceful, stable, no suicide bombings although bomb blasts became common in Karachi but still the majority of Pakistan was safe and peaceful. Pakistan was still respected and Pakistan's sovereignity was still respected.

Musharraf then came to power. 9/11 happened in USA. The United States invaded Afghanistan. Pakistan's economy grew under Musharraf, we saw development in our cities under Musharraf, but we also saw for the first time suicide bombings, increase of bomb blasts, and a new enemy called Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) which was created in 2002 and became active in 2007.

20 YEARS AFTER ZIA-UL-HAQ'S DEATH......

Asif Ali Zardari
225px-Asif_Ali_Zardari_-_2009.jpg

11th President of Pakistan
In Office: 9 September 2008 - Present

Suicide bombings happen regularly, bomb blasts happen regularly, US drone attacks on Pakistani territory happens regularly, target killings happen regularly in some of Pakistani cities, we have many trained separitist groups now carrying operations inside Pakistan. The area that was most peaceful part of Pakistan is now considered to be the most dangerous place in the world. Its very common for Pakistanis to be questioned for hours in airports today because of their ethnicity/nationality. Some Pakistanis are ashamed to show their green passport. Pakistan is almost bankrupt under Zardari's rule. Pakistan reached its 2nd lowest GDP growth rate in the history of Pakistan under the rule of Asif Ali Zardari.


How can a man whose been dead for 20 years suddenly change Pakistan's condition so drastically.


LONG LIVE THE CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN OF GENERAL MUHAMMAD ZIA-UL-HAQ.

Who can counter these facts- instead of verbal refutal?-

The argument of current state of Pakistan is because of his policies is just a blame- If that was true then we would have seen decline in economy during or just shortly after his era-

Why the responsibility current situation of Pakistan is put on a dead man after so many years- Being So Destructive- The Pro Islamic policies which Zia made could have been easily rectified by any loop of democratic government that came into power after him- What they did- Nothing- Yet it is Gen Zia who is made an escape goat-

Pakistan was following a pro Islamic system and it was thriving- the facts are there for you all to see- Now we continue to try to impose the failed Secular system again and again which failed- and is still failing- Yet we like to put the blame of the failure to a decade old dead man-
 
That is an urban myth you know.

Without the support of US, we wouldn't be able to even make the Soviets feel as if there was an insurgency. Plus, if they wanted, they could have brutally raped Pakistan.

- T-Faz



Are you talking about this ?

Ojhri Camp

It's not a myth because many empires have died in Afghanistan, the reason being that Afghanistan is the playground and the area now called Pakistan is the headquarters. So the empires keep fighting in the valley of death and the odds are against them as they cannot engage the main leadership.

Regarding Ojhri, yes that is the incident.
 
@T-FaZ

I dont have any good knowledge on the Afghan war. So i would like to ask 2 questions.

1. The Afghan war has brought US into the region and they never left, right or wrong?

2. If USSR wasn't made to retreat , there would have been a communist government in Afghanistan minding their own business and there would nt have been any trouble like the ones Pakistan facing right now, right or wrong?

PS: i only want your answer , cause most of the participating members doesnt seem to know or think rationally regarding this whole thing.
 
so you want to say that Muslim adopt that technique from Tamil Hindus and take it to new level include Children and Women in this ????????

There is no concept of new levels in Suicide Bombings- All you have to do is press the trigger near the target-and it was a tamil woman who stared all this-
 
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