Gen Zia - Man behind Defeat of USSR in Afghanistan

[SQ8]

Apart from being the most despicable ruler morally and spiritually..
he was quite corrupt as well..
All three armed forces and especially the PAF earned scathing remarks about corruption in his era.. including massive kickbacks from Siemens.. and the PNSC scandal.

If there is a man I would spit on the grave of.. its this man.

 

[clmeta]

Gen Zia was one of the best army chief of pakistan. he did much for the country.

Your signature says it all. But Zia was an American puppet and you say America is meant to fight true Islamic countries. What is a "true" Islamic country by the way? Please give an example of a false Islamic country?

 

[Sayonara]

1. Is killing a man who has done you no harm, a good act?

is killing kashmiris a ood act, is supporting the killer called israel in turn for military aid is good enough, does this classify you as a good human loving indian???, is what you are doing in assam is considered a good humane act???
is killing innocents in iraq and afghanistan be justified??

and as im not fimiliar with the background i cant speak

 

[Luftwaffe]

Santro we're not even sure that grave has him in it. He can't become a pious entity being buried in FM Islamabad, even the jews at the time 1500 yrs ago were buried in mecca and or madina.

 

[BATMAN]

But it is true that Zia killed Muslims in Jordan for a few Dinars thrown his way and he claimed he was a pious Muslim.

A pious Muslim without mercy killing other Muslims, who have taken shelter in a Muslim land and who have been thrown out of their home and land by non Muslim.

Hardly the qualifications for a good Muslim, let alone a pious Muslim!

And yes Zulfi broke Pakistan but Zia is no hero either.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...nd-defeat-ussr-afghanistan-3.html#post1674595
He has brought the misery Pakistan is in today and where Pakistan is being subject to Taliban bombers and to top it, has to listen to the dictates of a foreign power and where this foreign power with impunity drone attacks Pakistan!!

Hardly a good Muslim or a leader!

Watch your mouth.. .it is Gandih who was hired for few penies by British to undermine Jinnah's popularity.

You talk left right bottom just because you know you have friends here who will own you.

 

[KS]

DG ISI Gen Abdul Rehman was also in the plane with Zia when it crashed.

They were replaced by Gen Mirza & Gen Gul.

Interesting story behind the Assasination, let's just say that the PA had enough of these foreign stooges and what they did to Pakistan.

Can you please elaborate on that?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

is killing kashmiris a ood act, is supporting the killer called israel in turn for military aid is good enough, does this classify you as a good human loving indian???, is what you are doing in assam is considered a good humane act???
is killing innocents in iraq and afghanistan be justified??

and as im not fimiliar with the background i cant speak

You fail to answer my questions.

You digress since you know you are merely posting inanities for the sake of posting for your tote count.

The issue is good Muslim and pious Muslim and I proved that your hero was neither and instead was a charlatan.

Revisit the your post and my reply:

not all muslims are good muslims you know, and who are you to decide who is ood and who is bad muslim, are you muslim??? what jordanians are you talking abt in the first place, can u kindly give us some back ground
Original Post By Sayonara

is religion material to tell what is good or bad?

Religion teaches how to read and write or general education?

Do people not read the Islamic sites which tell what differentiates a good Muslim and a bad Muslim?

So, don't bring in flimsy arguments if your hero is proved to be a person with feet of clay.

Fine, let us say I don't understand what is a good Muslim or a bad Muslim. Do clarify the following:

1. Is killing a man who has done you no harm, a good act?

2. Is Killing a Muslim, who has done you no harm, as a Muslim. a good act?

3. What does the scripture say about a Muslim killing a Muslim?

4. Show me one Muslim who will say he is not a pious or a good Muslim.

Now, check if you have answered by queries consequent to your big talk.

If you notice You did big talk and none of the others did.

Others have not claimed that they are purer than the snow of Mt Etna. You have through your questioning.

So, it will be found that you totally digress and avoid the answer since you are well aware that you stand on a sticky wicket and thus beyond speech and logic.

One must put their money where their mouth is!!

Everyone is not an illiterate person out here!

Sayonara to you Sayonara!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Watch your mouth.. .it is Gandih who was hired for few penies by British to undermine Jinnah's popularity.

You talk left right bottom just because you know you have friends here who will own you.

Batman.

Gandhi maybe anything, but he did not say he was pious.

Your hero Zia claimed so.

And he killed Muslims!

He was ungrateful to top it all. He killed Bhutto, who promoted him out of turn!

He played to the Fundamentalists (check Musharraf's book and don't take me as the proof) so as to give legitimacy to his illegitimate Govt which he formed after a coup. Then he became a US puppet. He worked for the US so that the US became supreme in the world. A good thing. But what did it do to Pakistan? It created the Frankenstein that is killing innocent Pakistanis as we speak and what is more is that now Pakistan has to listen to the US dictates every day and their drone attacks continue!!

Some legacy indeed!

As far as this pious and good Muslim Zia is concerned and his role in the Black September operations, here it is:

The role of General Zia-ul-Haq in the events of Black September (1970), involving killing of 25000 Palestinians in Jordan
The role of General Zia-ul-Haq in the events of Black September (1970), involving killing of 25000 Palestinians in Jordan|LUBP

Also, see the damage that he did to the Muslim world

Zia remained posted in Jordan from 1967 till 1970, where he was involved in training and leading Jordon’s military. He is still highly respected in Jordan for his role in the Black September operations in support of King Hussein, where he commanded Jordan’s 2nd division. Zia’s troops were heavily involved in street-to-street urban fighting and are credited with killing scores of Palestinians. Black September was a great example of how the Arab nations despise the Palestinians, and their support of them only goes as far as to encourage and help the Palestinians to kill Jews.

Prophet of Doom - Good Muslims - General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq - Pakistan Dictator - 1977-1988

And he is a pious and good Muslim!

You may ask me to shut my mouth. But may I ask you not to shut your intelligence, brain and basic humanist sensitivities.

And lastly not condone this man's action of killing Muslims and also setting a precedent for the Arab world to kill Muslims and justify the same?

I don't talk 'left, right, bottom', I talk as how a person who is educated and who keeps abreast with the facts talk. And to help people like you who are perfunctory and emotional, I add links with the fervent hope that they may read and educated themselves.

I find that I have failed to excite the curiosity for knowledge in you even though I give links.

It is because it is a foreign forum, I am doubly careful in what I write lest I am banished. Hence, I am not prone to talk through the hat as some are prone to do!

 

[BATMAN]

^^Those are your twisted facts...

Gadhi claimed him self as avatar of God and you say he didn't claimed to be pious???
There was no point in starting a discussion by fasle claims and labels of your wish.
Zia was army chief of Pakistan during Afghan war and this is undeniable fact.
Hi character assassination or spitting on his grave by Santro cannot chnage the fact that he saved Pakistan from Russia.

You must admit your objective is rant this is why you attach provocative yet off topic words/sentences in your post.

Now commenting to off topic discussion.... started by you owned by T-Faz and Santro:

Those so called Jordanians were as much Jordanians as much British were Indians. living as refugees in Jordan and were armed by Iran.
There goes your lie number one.

There are videos showing that those foreign militias were roaming in streets of Amman with armored vehicles and automatic weapons and had assumed the role of govt. they were looting and shooting people at will.
There was no sense of state and King's regime was almost over thrown by bunch of invaders, whom king granted residence out of his Muslim brotherhood emotions.

Your govt. and media conjur up baseless claims and then you go on teaching those baseless rants to your children.
Please learn to live with facts, as i believe you are a grown up.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

[/COLOR]

^^Those are your twisted facts...

Gadhi claimed him self as avatar of God and you say he didn't claimed to be pious???
There was no point in starting a discussion by fasle claims and labels of your wish.
Zia was army chief of Pakistan during Afghan war and this is undeniable fact.
Hi character assassination or spitting on his grave by Santro cannot chnage the fact that he saved Pakistan from Russia.

You must admit your objective is rant this is why you attach provocative yet off topic words/sentences in your post.

Now commenting to off topic discussion.... started by you owned by T-Faz and Santro:

Those so called Jordanians were as much Jordanians as much British were Indians. living as refugees in Jordan and were armed by Iran.
There goes your lie number one.

There are videos showing that those foreign militias were roaming in streets of Amman with armored vehicles and automatic weapons and had assumed the role of govt. they were looting and shooting people at will.
There was no sense of state and King's regime was almost over thrown by bunch of invaders, whom king granted residence out of his Muslim brotherhood emotions.

Your govt. and media conjur up baseless claims and then you go on teaching those baseless rants to your children.
Please learn to live with facts, as i believe you are a grown up.

Batman,

Do read.

If Gandhi claimed he was pious, he would not have written 'My Experiment with Truth'.

He, himself, shows his foibles.

On Zia, you once again act rather juvenile. My govt has said nothing. The links are not of my Govt. So, what are you trying to prove by being scurrilously evasive and pandering to your hallucination of seeing Indian sites when none has been quoted!!

Are you imbalanced? Which video are you talking about? I appended none.

Are you sane?

Or are you so consumed that your brain is conjuring images that don't exist!

You have accused me everything under the sun, but for Christ'[s sake, stop raving and ranting and frothing at the mouth and tilting at windmills as Don Quixote since if you do, you make no sense.

 

[Sinnerman108]

An important aspect of this debate is who is making the remarks.

If it is a qadyani or a Iran sect, then sure they will hate Zia.

There is no point in debating with these two classes.

As for the Jordan episode and for all who constantly need to misquote this episode. refer to the following.

1. Check what was Zia's appointment in Jordan.

Gov of Pakistan was requested for help, which responded by offering Gen Zia's services.
All said and done.

2. Please note Gen Zia was not the Chief of Staff @ Jordan, neither was he in full command of div !

3. Kindly also consider how ill disciplined the Jordanian forces were / are.

Now try to put this in perspective.

and please do not believe the numbers quoted by Jews / Qadyanis .....

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

An important aspect of this debate is who is making the remarks.

If it is a qadyani or a Iran lover Shia, then sure they will hate Zia.

There is no point in debating with these two classes.

As for the Jordan episode and for all who constantly need to misquote this episode. refer to the following.

1. Check what was Zia's appointment in Jordan.

Gov of Pakistan was requested for help, which responded by offering Gen Zia's services.
All said and done.

2. Please note Gen Zia was not the Chief of Staff @ Jordan, neither was he in full command of div !

3. Kindly also consider how ill disciplined the Jordanian forces were / are.

Now try to put this in perspective.

and please do not believe the numbers quoted by Jews / Qadyanis .....

If you would be good enough to read the links, you would find where the links are from.

A study of the links will reveal that the figures have been corroborated by Arafat.

Everything that is uncomfortable need not be attributed to Jews or Ahmediyas.

One should not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Zia was a Brigade Commander. As far as killing Muslims is concerned, I hope you are aware that in the beginning of Pakistan's involvement in the WOT some Pakistanis soldiers and army units refused to obey the orders to kill Muslims in the NW.

It is a moot point if these soldiers were right or wrong. It is not for me to judge.

Zia would be justified in obeying orders in Jordan to kill Muslims, but then he should not have become a charlatan to claim that he was a pious and a good Muslim.

You can't be a pious and a good Muslim, if you kill Muslims.

 

[T-Faz]

Why you always talk baseless? Do you know why Bhutto promoted Zia out of turn?

Bhutto wanted a subservient Army chief, one he thought he could control and Zia was chosen for this reason. Similarly the Arabs backed Zia, the king of Jordan personally recommended him and the deal was made.

What does Saudi Arabia has to do with affairs of Jordan?

Saudi Arabia was involved in the Black September incident as they sided with the Jordanians to crush the PLO.

Last but not least you also seem to be oblivious what happened in Jordan!

militias took over control of Jordan streets and these militias were hosted by Jordans as refugees.

Are we talking about that British supported militia created by Mohammed Sharif and run by his children in Jordan. They are actually known as the royal family in that country.

Yeah, they should go back to Najd now known as Saudi Arabia.

 

[Meengla]

You know, you can fool people for only so long. History catches up. No 'grand state funeral' can wash away someone's sins against his nation. Especially not of some proto-Taliban like General Zia of Pakistan.

Of Pakistan's military rulers there are four: Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Musharraf. Of them, Ayub, Zia and Musharraf ruled for the longest. Left the most impact.

Ayub was forced to resign. In disgrace. His 'Decade of Development' was forgotten by the masses for a few years. But it did not take very long that people wish him well. He did a lot for Pakistan.

Zia died in 1988. His followers, led by Nawaz Sharif and military establishment, saw that there was now no stopping the arrival of PPP and Benazir. So they arranged a grand state funeral. Blah, blah, blah. All kind of state machinery and media was used to make him look like a 'Shaheed'. Too bad, even Nawaz Sharif disowned Zia. So Zia lies unlamented. A false 'hero' for some, mostly kids who don't know how badly Zia harmed Pakistan. @T-Faz is absolutely correct: Without the global support the Soviets would not have felt much of these Mujahideens.

Of Musharraf, it is too early to judge. But I bet, despite not having a strong political base--something which Zia did manage by cobbling together all the anti-PPP forces by 1988--Musharraf will still fare better in history.

History takes revenge. Certainly Zia is condemned to the sewerage of historyj. A 'dustbin' would be too good for that man.. The people of Pakistan--if you follow the Pakistani media--will tell you the same. The same media still manages to speak fondly of Ayub Khan even though Ayub was forced out of power in 1969--almost two decades before Zia left the scene. Why is that so? Simple: Zia was the monster who destroyed Pakistan while Ayub did do much good.

Now, some delusional kids imbibed with discarded jihadi ethos or some left overs of Zia may continue to delude themselves. Fine by me.

 

[Mutee]

He's my hero all the ahmedis hate him though cuz he was strict towards them so it's understandable