Fuss on alcohol clouds Istanbul music festival

[Levvame]

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The secular human law you mentioned and ignorantly blemished is superior to every other both religious and non-religious system designed to solve the religion and its problem with basic human rights. I think you really need to research the secularism a little bit more rather than acting like classic fundementalist with no credible information who attacks secularism and civil liberties with non-sense arguments like Stalin was an atheist or Mao was an atheist...

Lets start with a video. (By the way. He is an born American, and sociologist.)

The so called human right are a western invention, and it has its historical foundation on the "Age of Enlightenment", It was also a rebel against the Christian church. So implementing those ideas to the Islamic geographical areas is completely a western strategy to ruin Muslim societies. I live in a country where homo marriages are allowed, and recently homo marriages also been allowed to marry in church. The smoking age is down to 12, Age of consent is gone down to 15. (but the average debut age is 12-13), Drinking starts in same ages.

Meanwhile this same country, forbids Muslims to make mosques with minaret. Forces psychological the minorities of any kind to take education in the worst branches. Offends, insult and mock Islamic beliefs.

Lenin, Mussolini, and Hitler was an atheist too. Whats the point?

Female circumcision (and male too, male circumcision causes insensivity in male genitals and causes discomfort to females ), barbaric honor killings, stonings, sharia, beheadings, cutting of limbs, forced marriages, forced marriages between rapist and the rape victim, child marriage, lynching and etc... I am pretty sure that these words will seem familiar to you...

You find barbaric killings everywhere in the world? Its not a characteristic for Islam?
Stoning is a punishment, like the electric chair. The concept of stoning is much beyond your knowledge, and it is not so easy to stone someone like people do today.

Sharia means law.

And here we go with the classical example "cutting of limbs." By cutting persons hand you can have 2 different interpretations.
1. is to cut the hand of.
2. To prevent the from stealing again. (Jail is a option or giving him a job.)

Force marriages has nothing to do with Islam. go and get your information right.
Women circumcision has nothing to do with Islam. go get your information right.

It seems like your knowledge about Islamic rules are less than my knowledge about your so called universal human rights.

Eğer bir toplumun ahlak seviyesini ölçeceksem alkole değil, gözlerini kaçırıp sokakta çürümesini izledikleri evsizlerin, korktukları için baş kaldıramadıkları yolsuzluk dolu hükümetlerin, cinsel tercihleri yüzünden toplumdan dışladıkları ve insan yerine koymadıkları bireylerin, onur deyip ahlak deyip kendi öz kanının kanını dökenlerin, caizdir deyip, normaldir deyip 11-12 yaşındaki çocuk yaştaki kızları evlendirip gene o yaşlarda daha kendisi bir çocukken onların eline bebek verenlerin sayısına bakarak değerlendirmeyi yeğlerim ama seni bilemiyorum tabi.

Islam öncesi hüküm sürmüs kültürel canilikler ile Islami bagdastirman ne kadar art niyetli oldugunu gösteriyor. Eger Islami degerlerden ödün verilmemis olsa ve bu sorunlarin üzerine ta Osmanli zamaninda gidilmis olsa bu tür seyler toplumda yer bulmazdi. Ama daha önceki baska konularda dile getirdigim gibi. Osmanlidan tut bugüne kadar devletlerimizin adam akilli bir entegrasyon politikasi olmadigi icin bugün asiret ve daha nice sacma görüslerle basbasa kalmisiz. Bunlarin Islamda yeri yoktur.

 

[Targon]

Muslim societies were already f.cked up, how much they could go worst ? if your system is failed and other is advanced, you have to accept that other one is superior.

Human rights are not suddenly appeared, it was a result of despotism, violence, restrictions, its not just a ideology, its a result of past systems, an improvement.

Its good see discrimination againts homosexuals is reducing, another improvement, while in some countries people still seeing them as creatures doesn't has the right to live.

 

[TurAr]

You find barbaric killings everywhere in the world? Its not a characteristic for Islam?
Stoning is a punishment, like the electric chair. The concept of stoning is much beyond your knowledge, and it is not so easy to stone someone like people do today.

Sharia means law.

And here we go with the classical example "cutting of limbs." By cutting persons hand you can have 2 different interpretations.
1. is to cut the hand of.
2. To prevent the from stealing again. (Jail is a option or giving him a job.)

Force marriages has nothing to do with Islam. go and get your information right.
Women circumcision has nothing to do with Islam. go get your information right.

It seems like your knowledge about Islamic rules are less than my knowledge about your so called universal human rights.

This post is probably the most disgusting thing i've ever seen in this forum. You're talking like stoning and cutting of limbs are perfectly normal.

Wtf are they doing to you people in Denmark? This Shria "law" should be implemented in one city in Turkey, and all the yobazs should live in there and cut each other out and stone each other to death.

 

[Quasar]

reality check

What are human rights? so called a western strategy to ruin Muslim societies.




PREAMBLE

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.


Article 7.

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.


Article 8.

Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.


Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.


Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Article 12.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.


Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.


Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 15.

(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.


Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.


Article 17.

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.


Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


Article 20.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.


Article 21.

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.


Article 22.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.


Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.


Article 24.

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.


Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.


Article 26.

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Article 28.

Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29.

(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.


Article 30.

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

 

[Levvame]

This post is probably the most disgusting thing i've ever seen in this forum. You're talking like stoning and cutting of limbs are perfectly normal.

Wtf are they doing to you people in Denmark? This Shria "law" should be implemented in one city in Turkey, and all the yobazs should live in there and cut each other out and stone each other to death.

Dude read what i wrote. I said there is two different interpretation of the cutting hand of a stealer.
And I support the second one interpretation.

Besides cutting hand of a stealer have some criteria. You don't cut the hand of everybody who steal.

I would like you to point in the Quran and in Hadits where the stoning has its legitimacy.

Muslim societies were already f.cked up, how much they could go worst ? if your system is failed and other is advanced, you have to accept that other one is superior.

Human rights are not suddenly appeared, it was a result of despotism, violence, restrictions, its not just a ideology, its a result of past systems, an improvement.

Its good see discrimination againts homosexuals is reducing, another improvement, while in some countries people still seeing them as creatures doesn't has the right to live.

If your system is failing now, and other is advancing. You have to accept that other one is superior.

Yes in the west.

I don't see them as creatures who doesn't have right to live. I simply say if they can get cured lets cure them. If not, they should live in places outside the Islamic society.

 

[Killuminati]

This post is probably the most disgusting thing i've ever seen in this forum. You're talking like stoning and cutting of limbs are perfectly normal.

Wtf are they doing to you people in Denmark? This Shria "law" should be implemented in one city in Turkey, and all the yobazs should live in there and cut each other out and stone each other to death.

Maybe the abnormal thing here is the way of your thinking and the contradiction you are in to. The hypocricy of guys like you are well known. When it comes to a rape situation, you guys screaming to chopp off the penis of the rapist but when it comes to a almost same method of punishment by Sharia it is barbaric. You, Deno and Targon have zero knowledge about the Islam. You talking about the Islam while you didnt even studiet. All of your statements are based on the mentality of the west.

The real yobaz people are like you that feel proud of Turkish system while everything is copycatted from the west but still we are in to a mess. So explain me what has Islam to do with this then?

If your system is failing now, and other is advancing. You have to accept that other one is superior.

Yes in the west.

I don't see them as creatures who doesn't have right to live. I simply say if they can get cured lets cure them. If not, they should live in places outside the Islamic society.

Their system is so advanced that Turkey is still 80 years behind in terms of development.

 

[Targon]

System is not failing, its suffering from the past failed systems, thats why we're not reached the level of west.

As the your example shows, human rights is not an ideology but result, you're discriminating homosexuals, they're reacting and opposing it and the cure is coming from the human rights.

 

[Killuminati]

Muslim societies were already f.cked up, how much they could go worst ? if your system is failed and other is advanced, you have to accept that other one is superior.

Human rights are not suddenly appeared, it was a result of despotism, violence, restrictions, its not just a ideology, its a result of past systems, an improvement.

Its good see discrimination againts homosexuals is reducing, another improvement, while in some countries people still seeing them as creatures doesn't has the right to live.

Stop talking from your chocolatefactory Targon. The women rights first mentioned in the Islam 1400 years ago while the wester society started with this in 19th century. Till 19th century a woman was nothing else but a sex tool or a servant in the eyes of west. If you knew a zero knowledge about history, you would know that Europe tooked the civilization over from Ottomans. The Islam did stop the barbarism of west.

Yes, freedom bring its immorality on high limits. Still claiming that homosexual is not a immorality and not a deviation is simple mind and body controlled from a to z. And really i dont even call you a Turk anymore because a Turk that left its own culture and want to try to live like a western society, has nothing to find in Turkey nor in Turkish nation. Our ancestors did die in the name of Allah, to protect our country agains any western innovation and culture but what you guys doing now is betraying them. If they really knew that Turkey would be like this, i will swear that they even wouldnt fight.

Siz Turk olamazsiniz. Kendi oz benliginden, ozunden, gecmisinden utanan anca kendisi utanc verici bir durumdadir.

 

[Targon]

As you can see I'm no longer answering your empty posts.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

System is not failing, its suffering from the past failed systems, thats why we're not reached the level of west.

As the your example shows, human rights is not an ideology but result, you're discriminating homosexuals, they're reacting and opposing it and the cure is coming from the human rights.

Homosexuality is unnatural behaviour and for the existence of humanity two opposite genders are attracted to each other. If there are cases where a person is attracted to same gender, he/she should be cured. Sorry but i can't tolerate homos

 

[Killuminati]

System is not failing, its suffering from the past failed systems, thats why we're not reached the level of west.

As the your example shows, human rights is not an ideology but result, you're discriminating homosexuals, they're reacting and opposing it and the cure is coming from the human rights.

Its always the same bullcrap argument, suffering from the past. What kind of past? Turkey has a full system democracy but as you see is democracy nothing else but a tool to fool people and get votes to control their own leadership and benefits of West. Like today how AKP fooling people in name of the great western democracy. You must accept that their system can not work on our people. The only thing here that working is the destroyness of the Turkish-islamic morality and keep the people away from faith. If you can create a society that finds it self in a huge immorality status and far away from their religion, they will be a easy target. Why you think they couldnt defeat us 100 years ago!!!!???? TELL ME YOU TARGON CLOON???? WAS IT THE GREAT WESTERN SYSTEM THAT DEFEND US OR OUW IMAAN AND BELIEF IN ALLAH???

After they saw this fact, they did make new strategies to deafed to Turkish nation without even starting a war agains them.

Bu gercekleri gormemekte israr eden bu devekusu toplum, herzaman onursuzluk icinde yasamaya ve en sonunda yenilmeye mahkumdur. Once gercekleri bileceksin ve hayatini ona gore yonlendireceksin. Bana burada yok bati super sistemi palavralari ile gelmeyin. Ne kadar bktan bir sistem oldugunu sizde biliyorsunuz. Bu kadar salaklastirilmis millet benim kendi milletim mi yaw?

As you can see I'm no longer answering your empty posts.

Logic that a empty head can not go content in my post.

 

[Targon]

Homosexuality is not something new, it was always there, in every society, they were always oppressed and discriminated but these times passed, they're able to oppose discrimination today, you're talking about like its a virus, its not, its just happens, sometimes because of hormons coming from the birth, or just simply a matter of choice, nobody has the right to discriminate them, will you be ok if someone says he can't stand againts disabled people ?

 

[Armstrong]

Hey, guys...lets end this ! Theres nothing constructive about any of this because its been reduced to a mud slinging contest. To the Muslims remember what the Quran says 'To each his own', to others 'Lets agree to disagree and move on !'.

God Bless Turkey and the Turkish People !

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Homosexuality is not something new, it was always there, in every society, they were always oppressed and discriminated but these times passed, they're able to oppose discrimination today, you're talking about like its a virus, its not, its just happens, sometimes because of hormons coming from the birth, or just simply a matter of choice, nobody has the right to discriminate them, will you be ok if someone says he can't stand againts disabled people ?

Well disabled people are in the category of handicapped. You said yourself homosexuality is nutural.

My views:
1: Homosexuality is unethical
2: Homosexuality is diseaseful

Also a question to you. I don't know if you are married or have a gf, but if your child came out to be a gay person, and wanted the rest of his/her life to spend with his/her partner. Would you accept that they adopted a child and raised him/her in such an environment? Just curios

Edit: Let us keep the discussion civil please.

 

[TurAr]

Ya sen kimsin de insanların Türklüğünü sorguluyorsun? Kamuya açık alanda alkol alınmasının yasaklanmasını savunur, homoseksüellere ölüm diye çemkirir. Sonra batı sistemini eleştirir. Lan sen ve senin gibiler yüzünden o sistemi bir türlü oturtamadık. Oturtabilseydik herkes istediği gibi ibadetini yapar, kimse oruç tutmuyor diye dayak yemez, 12 yaşında kızlarla evlendirilmez, şeyhlerin altına yatmaz, eğitim seviyesi daha yüksek ve refah sahibi bir toplum olurduk.

Muhtemelen otuzlu yaşlarında, lise terk, hayatında bir baltaya sap olamamış, bunu forumlarda ucuz milliyetçilik yaparak gidermeye çalışan bir adamsın. Müzik dinleyenler günaha giriyor diyebilecek kadar kafası bulanmış zavallı bir bireysin. Bari pisliğini gözler önüne serme kendine sakla.