French Secularism: Debate on banning all Religious symbols !

[Leviza]

did they ban Jew small cap on their head as well ????????

 

[Unbeliever]

Jews are pretty much well integrated wherever they live. They are not disproportionately on welfare, but actually contribute a lot to society in arts, sciences and of course as lawyers and doctors. They are also not grossly overrepresented in violent crime offences..

Furthermore they did not ban anything yet..

Moreover it has only become necessary to even talk about these kind of measures because of the Muslim-ghettos in the suburbs (of France but similar problems in many other European countries exist) where immigrants harass and rape women not wearing a veil and self police Sharia. We don't want that backwards stuff in Europe and we will not stand for it.

If this is passed into law it will, in practice, focus more on compulsive veiling than punishing the women wearing the veil. For example a small fine of 20€ might be put against a women wearing a burka, however if her husband forced her to do it (which will be hard to prove but some women may find the courage to come forth as have in the past) he will face a massive fine or even small jail-time.

The purpose is to empower and protect Muslim women to speak up (something that conservatives and fundamentalists are most scared of, therefore the outcry) and yes it is a somewhat desperate measure against a problem that is growing more out of hand every day. That is the context in which it much be understood.

 

[rudrakx]

Jews are pretty much well integrated wherever they live. They are not disproportionately on welfare, but actually contribute a lot to society in arts, sciences and of course as lawyers and doctors. They are also not grossly overrepresented in violent crime offences..

Furthermore they did not ban anything yet..

Moreover it has only become necessary to even talk about these kind of measures because of the Muslim-ghettos in the suburbs (of France but similar problems in many other European countries exist) where immigrants harass and rape women not wearing a veil and self police Sharia. We don't want that backwards stuff in Europe and we will not stand for it.

If this is passed into law it will, in practice, focus more on compulsive veiling than punishing the women wearing the veil. For example a small fine of 20€ might be put against a women wearing a burka, however if her husband forced her to do it (which will be hard to prove but some women may find the courage to come forth as have in the past) he will face a massive fine or even small jail-time.

The purpose is to empower and protect Muslim women to speak up (something that conservatives and fundamentalists are most scared of, therefore the outcry) and yes it is a somewhat desperate measure against a problem that is growing more out of hand every day. That is the context in which it much be understood.

I understand your thinking, but This particular French law is against the public display of any religious symbols (to Protect secular values of the France or may be it represents backwardness), same applied to the veil. I don't think it has much to do with uplifting of Muslim women, most of Muslim women wear veil as routine. for Europeans these women with veil appears to be oppressed and don't really like to see them in public which may represent whole society as backward.
In short, French sees veil wearing women as dishonour to their society.

 

[Hussein]

Jews are pretty much well integrated wherever they live. They are not disproportionately on welfare, but actually contribute a lot to society in arts, sciences and of course as lawyers and doctors. They are also not grossly overrepresented in violent crime offences..

Furthermore they did not ban anything yet..

Moreover it has only become necessary to even talk about these kind of measures because of the Muslim-ghettos in the suburbs (of France but similar problems in many other European countries exist) where immigrants harass and rape women not wearing a veil and self police Sharia. We don't want that backwards stuff in Europe and we will not stand for it.

If this is passed into law it will, in practice, focus more on compulsive veiling than punishing the women wearing the veil. For example a small fine of 20€ might be put against a women wearing a burka, however if her husband forced her to do it (which will be hard to prove but some women may find the courage to come forth as have in the past) he will face a massive fine or even small jail-time.

The purpose is to empower and protect Muslim women to speak up (something that conservatives and fundamentalists are most scared of, therefore the outcry) and yes it is a somewhat desperate measure against a problem that is growing more out of hand every day. That is the context in which it much be understood.

11 april of this year it will be applied
they ban "voile integrale" which means anything which covers face in public places (hospital , poste office and so)
it was already forbidden to wear scarf in schools since a long time (more than 10 years as i know)

Interdiction du voile intégral: la circulaire qui ne dissimule rien - Libération
this article is about the paper sent to polices to explain them what should be considered as illegale
if you are interested i can translate
the main points:
150 euros penalty and a stage of citizenship (they teach what are the rules in France)
30 000 euros if someone forces you to wear covering your face
(it is extremely big amount: 2 years of salary almost here)
police is not allowed to take it off they can just ask to do so
it explains that in car and many private places it is forbidden to ask anything as well near the mosques or praying places
(i mean police cannot ask you to pay a penalty if you are near a mosque)
places forbiden especially: hostels, restaurants, cinemas, parc , beach, and so

 

[JayAtl]

I'm all for the removal of every religious symbol from public. Religion per you " religious" folks should be between you and your god-- so keep that channel open and stop subjugating the rest of us to your public displays.

...and religious attire when a security risk should be banned period ( which is all day , every day , every place). and if Muslims or Hindus or Christan's or Jews don't like the French way- then leave.

 

[ovarel]

Jews are pretty much well integrated wherever they live. They are not disproportionately on welfare, but actually contribute a lot to society in arts, sciences and of course as lawyers and doctors. They are also not grossly overrepresented in violent crime offences..

it may be offensive but may i ask you that were jews not integrated when you butchered them not long just 60-65 years ago?

if jews are accepted(some jews claim the opposite) in europe now,its because of politically correctness..if a european say or offer anything against jews or judaism they are considered as racist and evil..

on the other hand,there is no that kind of thing with regard to muslims and its free to bash muslims..actually it also provides votes for the politicians..

and muslims living in ghettos etc. yes muslims must try to integrate the place they live but the responsibility is mutual.

here is a link shows the other side of the medal..he generally talks about Turks but it may still help.

Tezcan: ‘Why Have You Naturalized 110,000 Turks?’ « ACTURCA

 

[Developereo]

The proposals discussed Tuesday include banning the wearing of religious symbols such as Muslim headscarves or prominent Christian crosses by day-care personnel and preventing Muslim mothers from wearing headscarves when accompanying school field trips.

The selective reading skills of the Islamophobes comes into play again.

The proposal is blatantly discriminatory against Muslims and favors Christians and Jews. It does not ban all religious symbols, only prominent Christian crosses. The weasel word is right there to allow traditional Christian/Jewish religious symbols, i.e. pendants with small cross or star of David.

 

[DV RULES]

I will say it, communism, racism & discrimination.

 

[Developereo]

He ain`t a jew.

BBC News - Profile: Nicolas Sarkozy

The son of a Hungarian immigrant and a French mother of Greek Jewish origin, he was baptised a Roman Catholic and grew up in Paris.

By Jewish tradition, if your mother is Jewish, you are a Jew. Sarkozy's anti-Muslim agenda is not hard to figure out.

 

[Developereo]

Jews are pretty much well integrated wherever they live. They are not disproportionately on welfare, but actually contribute a lot to society in arts, sciences and of course as lawyers and doctors. They are also not grossly overrepresented in violent crime offences..

Your predictable and typically ignorant rant is one sided. One may claim that Jews are disproportionately represented in white collar crimes like embezzlement and investment fraud, which cause far more damage to society than petty crimes.

The purpose is to empower and protect Muslim women to speak up

Spare us the fake rationalization. You are already behind the times; even the Islamophobes don't bother playing this silly nonsense any more. Everyone knows you don't give a damn about women, Muslim or otherwise. It's just an excuse for xenophobic hate-mongers like you to shroud your bigotry under a veneer of civilization.

 

[iPakMan]

BBC News - Profile: Nicolas Sarkozy

The son of a Hungarian immigrant and a French mother of Greek Jewish origin, he was baptised a Roman Catholic and grew up in Paris.

By Jewish tradition, if your mother is Jewish, you are a Jew. Sarkozy's anti-Muslim agenda is not hard to figure out.

There`s a big difference between being born a Jew and being raised as a Jew. He is clearly a catholic christian by choice and his country is one of the most aggressive supporters of EU unilaterally recognizing Palestine in the 67 borders. He has no love for his Jewish ancestry or Israel.
And it seems to me that this move by the French is clearly a Napoleon move to decrease the value of Religion and increase value of Nationalism.
Unless you prefer a mass deportation like they did to the Gypsies, this is the next best option.

 

[JayAtl]

BBC News - Profile: Nicolas Sarkozy

The son of a Hungarian immigrant and a French mother of Greek Jewish origin, he was baptised a Roman Catholic and grew up in Paris.

By Jewish tradition, if your mother is Jewish, you are a Jew. Sarkozy's anti-Muslim agenda is not hard to figure out.

he has an anti religion agenda not just anti muslim- good for him and I'm no fan of him.
I mean really with blashphemy laws in pakistan- with what face do you crib Developereo,about removal of religious symbols? atleast he has not proposed a death sentence- which is crimes against humanity.

 

[Developereo]

There`s a big difference between being born a Jew and being raised as a Jew. He is clearly a catholic christian by choice and his country is one of the most aggressive supporters of EU unilaterally recognizing Palestine in the 67 borders. He has no love for his Jewish ancestry or Israel.
And it seems to me that this move by the French is clearly a Napoleon move to decrease the value of Religion and increase value of Nationalism.
Unless you prefer a mass deportation like they did to the Gypsies, this is the next best option.

Sarkozy, along with Germany's Merkel, are the two strongest opponents of Turkey joining the EU because of 'cultural' differences. Also, as I explained above, the law is not anti-religion. It specifically exempts traditional Christian and Jewish religious symbols.

This charade with weasel words (prominent, conspicuous) is not fooling anybody.

he has an anti religion agenda not just anti muslim- good for him and I'm no fan of him.
I mean really with blashphemy laws in pakistan- with what face do you crib Developereo,about removal of religious symbols? atleast he has not proposed a death sentence- which is crimes against humanity.

The topic here is France, not Pakistan. Try to pay attention.

 

[iPakMan]

Sarkozy, along with Germany's Merkel, are the two strongest opponents of Turkey joining the EU because of 'cultural' differences. Also, as I explained above, the law is not anti-religion. It specifically exempts traditional Christian and Jewish religious symbols.

This charade with weasel words (prominent, conspicuous) is not fooling anybody.



The topic here is France, not Pakistan. Try to pay attention.

I don`t disagree that it is mainly Anti-Muslim, because Muslims on average are much more religious than average Christians or Jews.

 

[JayAtl]

Sarkozy, along with Germany's Merkel, are the two strongest opponents of Turkey joining the EU because of 'cultural' differences. Also, as I explained above, the law is not anti-religion. It specifically exempts traditional Christian and Jewish religious symbols.

This charade with weasel words (prominent, conspicuous) is not fooling anybody.



The topic here is France, not Pakistan. Try to pay attention.

then dont crib about a country you don't reside in if you don't like to be called on the mat too.