France to support bid to export next-generation tank to Indian Army

[Yasser76]

In shocking news France supports efforts to make a load of money out of India, whilst Indian domestic industry falters....

 

[FuturePAF]

In shocking news France supports efforts to make a load of money out of India, whilst Indian domestic industry falters....

The more they sell without real ToT the less Indian industry develops. Good for France, they have to get sales to maintain their high living standards.

 

[Turingsage]

For most of your history you had a sugar daddy called the Soviet Union. India could not have done what it did in 71 without the Sugar Daddy that is when Pakistan was under a US embargo and China had its own internal challenges.

We PAID CASH to the Soviet Union for all the weapons we bought. Pakistan had been a member of CENTO( Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey and United Kingdom) and SEATO( the United States, France, Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia, the Philippines, Thailand and Pakistan) for decades receiving the latest western weapons FREE and at hugely subsidised rates.
We were NEVER part of any defence pacts. We could never buy from the western states their latest military tech and what we could buy cost an exorbitant amount not being Western Lackies.
We were NOT in the Warsaw Pact.
The Soviets were not our sugar daddies but did sell weapons to us without demanding we join their military defence pacts .
We chose to and remained UNALIGNED and paid our own price for it,
Even today we buy weapons from the old Warsaw pact countries and the west. We are unaligned and will not join defence pacts to serve the interests of the West or the East nor China

 

[Foinikas]

We were NEVER part of any defence pacts.

Of course you never were. You only want others to help you and you would never help them in return during a war.

 

[Yasser76]

We PAID CASH to the Soviet Union for all the weapons we bought. Pakistan had been a member of CENTO( Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey and United Kingdom) and SEATO( the United States, France, Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia, the Philippines, Thailand and Pakistan) for decades receiving the latest western weapons FREE and at hugely subsidised rates.
We were NEVER part of any defence pacts. We could never buy from the western states their latest military tech and what we could buy cost an exorbitant amount not being Western Lackies.
We were NOT in the Warsaw Pact.
The Soviets were not our sugar daddies but did sell weapons to us without demanding we join their military defence pacts .
We chose to and remained UNALIGNED and paid our own price for it,
Even today we buy weapons from the old Warsaw pact countries and the west. We are unaligned and will not join defence pacts to serve the interests of the West or the East nor China

So what you are crying about is that Pakistan aligned itself with the super power of the last century and gained defence benefits and now Pakistan has aligned itself with the future super power of this century and will gain defence benefits? While during the whole time India continues to get milked by both sides?

Well done

 

[Bossman]

We PAID CASH to the Soviet Union for all the weapons we bought. Pakistan had been a member of CENTO( Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey and United Kingdom) and SEATO( the United States, France, Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia, the Philippines, Thailand and Pakistan) for decades receiving the latest western weapons FREE and at hugely subsidised rates.
We were NEVER part of any defence pacts. We could never buy from the western states their latest military tech and what we could buy cost an exorbitant amount not being Western Lackies.
We were NOT in the Warsaw Pact.
The Soviets were not our sugar daddies but did sell weapons to us without demanding we join their military defence pacts .
We chose to and remained UNALIGNED and paid our own price for it,
Even today we buy weapons from the old Warsaw pact countries and the west. We are unaligned and will not join defence pacts to serve the interests of the West or the East nor China

You got “Frienship” Prices but the Soviets screwed you on the after sale services the same way the French are doing it to you. Further, it had access to systems that Pakistan could not even imagine getting like AWACs and missile boats. What India paid for upgrades of its MK2, it could have bought brand new jets. Military procurement is not something Indians can be proud off. The Non-Aligned movement was one of the biggest BS of the Cold War. Indian was the biggest recipient of humanitarian aid from the West during this period. You had a Strategic Friendship Treaty with the Soviets and you are a member of the Quad right now. Indians get hand me down uniforms from the Americans in return. The relationship between Pakistan and China is about mutual interest and a common enemy. Pakistan is not serving Chinese interests, it is protecting its own interests with China.

 

[Yasser76]

You got “Frienship” Prices but the Soviets screwed you on the after sale services the same way the French are doing it to you. Further, it had access to systems that Pakistan could not even imagine getting like AWACs and missile boats. What India paid for upgrades of its MK2, it could have bought brand new jets. Military procurement is not something Indians can be proud off. The Non-Aligned movement was one of the biggest BS of the Cold War. Indian was the biggest recipient of humanitarian aid from the West during this period. You had a Strategic Friendship Treaty with the Soviets and you are a member of the Quad right now. Indians get hand me down uniforms from the Americans in return. The relationship between Pakistan and China is about mutual interest and a common enemy. Pakistan is not serving Chinese interests, it is protecting its own interests with China.

As China catches up with and eventually surpasses the west with regards to military tech you can expect this to be passed on to a large extent in the military equipment Pakistan gets. The J-10C, Hangor, Z-10, VT-4 maybe slightly behind the very latest western counterparts from France or US, but are good enough for Pakistan. The next wave of Chinese fighters, subs, choppers and tanks 10-20 years from now will be ahead of what the West can make, even the US has admitted this.
When that happens India will be facing two common enemies with superior weapons, compatability in training and equipment and full networked with each other....on two fronts.

Militarily it will essentially be checkmate, but do not far, you have Qaud, so every 6 months you can send a ship to exercise with the US Navy....

 

[Akatosh]

APU is not an upgrade, it’s a basic necessity. Even Al-Zarrars have those.
Indian T90S tanks are getting pretty old and have absolutely no real upgrades planned or in the works. If you want to see what an upgrade is, look at the Al-Khalid-1 versus Al-Khalid.

APU contract has already been signed with Oshkosh corp.
Only other thing that is needed is an APS for which winter trials were completed very very recently and contract will be signed in end of this FY (just like APU contract was signed in last week of FY 20)

 

[iLION12345_1]

APU contract has already been signed with Oshkosh corp.
Only other thing that is needed is an APS for which winter trials were completed very very recently and contract will be signed in end of this FY (just like APU contract was signed in last week of FY 20)

I don’t see why you gave me this information, let me repeat, an APU is not an upgrade, it’s a basic necessity on a modern tank that your T90S are missing, even last Gen Pakistani tanks have those. Moreover, why didn’t india make its own APU? Pakistan can make it’s own, so india can too, but they didn’t, see what I mean about Indian ground industries being behind their air industries?

“Only other thing needed is an APS”, I’m sorry but no, your T90S are missing several important things that are needed on modern tanks to make them relevant in todays warfare, an APS is only one of them, it doesn’t have a CITV, A panoramic sight, modern thermals, Modern ERA, An RWS, it also has a last Gen FCS and GCS, a last Gen stabilizing system, and most importantly, modern ammo. I could go on forever. Simply slapping an APS on it (which FYI I highly doubt will be on them anywhere near the next year or two) won’t make them modern. So I’ll repeat again: Indian T90S are getting old and there seems to be absolutely no proper modernizations planned for them yet, now If tomorrow they announced they’re gonna upgrade their T90S to MS standard, that would be a modernization. So what I’m trying to say is: The T90S tanks are lacking a ton of basic technology that they need before an APS.

Also note that the moment india starts putting an APS on its tanks, GL-5 APS will make its way on to Pakistani tanks, so there really won’t be any advantage again.

 

[IblinI]

The J-10C, Hangor, Z-10, VT-4

These platforms' tech design was frozen in the early 2010s, the current main platform of PLA are J20, 055, 039C which their's tech design was frozen from the early 2010s till 2015.
As of the next wave, there are lots of interesting stories circulating on the Chinese internet, but that is another story.

 

[Tshering22]

Of course you never were. You only want others to help you and you would never help them in return during a war.

We never asked anyone else to fight our wars, nor would we ever.

All our neighbors have done this Jumping into a specific bandwagon and have suffered for it more than anything. While your alliances with the NATO may serve a common purpose due to like-minded neighbourhood (barring your issues with Turkey), Asia is a very different region with different complexities.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

We PAID CASH to the Soviet Union for all the weapons we bought. Pakistan had been a member of CENTO( Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey and United Kingdom) and SEATO( the United States, France, Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia, the Philippines, Thailand and Pakistan) for decades receiving the latest western weapons FREE and at hugely subsidised rates.
We were NEVER part of any defence pacts. We could never buy from the western states their latest military tech and what we could buy cost an exorbitant amount not being Western Lackies.
We were NOT in the Warsaw Pact.
The Soviets were not our sugar daddies but did sell weapons to us without demanding we join their military defence pacts .
We chose to and remained UNALIGNED and paid our own price for it,
Even today we buy weapons from the old Warsaw pact countries and the west. We are unaligned and will not join defence pacts to serve the interests of the West or the East nor China

One of the good thing about our leadership was pragmatism when dealing with superpowers and ultimate goal of Indian development over anything else
Our ties with Soviets on the surface gave is 1971 and Sikkim while what goes unnoticed was Soviet assistance in Indian industrialization , specifically our steel plants.

After 1991 collapse of Soviets, India saw its next stage of economic development with assistance from USA, our services industry development being one example and others areas like NSG waiver and MCTR membership. Currently with manufacturing industry development being next stage.

Despite Pak leadership being the early bird when it comes to approaching superpowers, Pakistan case has been all of downfalls. First, despite being pro-capitalistic, Pakistan is one of few allies of USA whose economy never took off, even Chinese who allied with USA much later benefitted from this.
Excusing, the obvious failure of assistance during 71, to add insult to injury the threat of being bombed back to stoneage. The problems with USA for Pakistan did not end there, American contempt for Pakistan was gift that keeps on giving with the latest consequence being FATF grey list membership while ignoring the obvious IMF bailout strings.

 

[johncliu88]

The French tanks may cost more than a fighter jet each.

 

[Liquidmetal]

There is a huge bubbling concern about how we spend OUR OWN MONEY to buy weapon systems that WE HAVE CHOOSEN.

We do not have sugar daddies like the US or China that provide free and subsidised weapons for lying down and opening our legs wide open.

We PAY HARD CASH to retain our strategic independence, a price we consider ALWAYS worth paying . We do not go whoring for other countries interests.

What an arrogant shit!

 

[Super Falcon]

I dont see india buying them due to lack of their technology against russian german and us tanks and they are very expensive without any reason an they have failed in yemen wsr uae gifting them to jordan and due to ondia already have huge supporting system for russian tanks no reason india buy these junks