France starts ban on full-face veil

[Amaa'n]

London .


All Types of People EDL have , About Religion you should watch their leader debating.

like they use

strong Point-- Highest number of sex crime in UK done by small Muslim minority particularity child sex crime , with Huge contribution from Pakistani in recent years.

Youtube is actually banned here in Pakistan so i cant watch the debates, you mind repharising their points for me here

 

[ZYXW]

See, here's the deal, the state has higher authority then religion. Probably one of the definitions of a secular state. And it does not matter if individuals think this takes away from their freedoms.

It is not only France, iirc Belgium already has a ban on veils, and the Nederlands gov. is considering it if they remain in power after election.

Personally, i think you are making a big deal out of it. Women can wear the scarf and display their modesty. If they cannot make a simple concession like that.....what im trying to say is, there is no relationship where one side only takes and not gives anything. No working relationship anyhow.



Look it's pretty simple, every entity has the right to choose who or what represents them. And it has freedoms of it's own. If gov. of France decides women in burqa aren't apropriate to send on UN conferences what can you do about it? Don't they have a free choice of who to send?
Besides, if any Muslim feels this encroaches on his freedom, he is free to decline the invite to whatever venue they might have sent him/her. Similarly, they would probably not have sent a person with "short cloths".

Freedom is a broad term not fully understood by many, namely most are blissfully ignorant of the fact that their freedom ends where someone else's begins. People think freedom is a one way street, a gravy train that keeps on giving. It's not.

Hope this explains it OK. I'm actually not in the mood to have a religious conversation and a mountain pile of infractions, so.....there's a good chance i wont comment on this anymore.

Not about religion, it's about the extent to which a government has power over its people. But nah dw, I get what you're saying. I mean if the french people are okay with this much government involvement...it's cool, just not something I politically would be okay with ya noe.... lol!

 

[Amaa'n]

I am not sure, since I never followed this issue into depth, is this ban for everyone in the country or just muslim women?
if the ban is on covering the face rather its a hoody, a scarf, or a balaclava, than French are in there right to ban veil.
Look at this way, some organizations have this policy on women wearing in-appropriate clothing, like too short skirts, revealing clothing, or as @Audio mentioned it is not allowed for anyone to walk in a public place without any clothing (nudity), Like in UAE, it is a crime to walk in public place wearing very few clothing items. In the same way French are in there right to ban veil. given the law and order situation. However,please do confirm, this law should be for everyone in the country and not just a single community

Not about religion, it's about the extent to which a government has power over its people. But nah dw, I get what you're saying. I mean if the french people are okay with this much government involvement...it's cool, just not something I politically would be okay with ya noe.... lol!

 

[ZYXW]

I am not sure, since I never followed this issue into depth, is this ban for everyone in the country or just muslim women?
if the ban is on covering the face rather its a hoody, a scarf, or a balaclava, than French are in there right to ban veil.
Look at this way, some organizations have this policy on women wearing in-appropriate clothing, like too short skirts, revealing clothing, or as @Audio mentioned it is not allowed for anyone to walk in a public place without any clothing (nudity), Like in UAE, it is a crime to walk in public place wearing very few clothing items. In the same way French are in there right to ban veil. given the law and order situation. However,please do confirm, this law should be for everyone in the country and not just a single community

Just bans religious symbols....
The law does not mention any particular symbol, and thus bans all Christian (veil, signs), Muslim (veil, signs), Sikh (turban, signs) Jewish and other minor religions' signs.[1] But it is considered by many to specifically target the wearing of headscarves (a khimar, considered by most Muslims to be an obligatory article of faith as part of hijab ["modesty"]) by Muslim schoolgirls. For this reason, it is occasionally referred to as the French headscarf ban in the foreign press.

LOL I completely understand. I had to look into for a while before I understood it. You have to realize...France is not very religious so I could have seen this coming ya noe....
that's why I was against it bc of the amount of government involvement, not necessarily religion!

 

[Amaa'n]

Just bans religious symbols....
The law does not mention any particular symbol, and thus bans all Christian (veil, signs), Muslim (veil, signs), Sikh (turban, signs) Jewish and other minor religions' signs.[1] But it is considered by many to specifically target the wearing of headscarves (a khimar, considered by most Muslims to be an obligatory article of faith as part of hijab ["modesty"]) by Muslim schoolgirls. For this reason, it is occasionally referred to as the French headscarf ban in the foreign press.

LOL I completely understand. I had to look into for a while before I understood it. You have to realize...France is not very religious so I could have seen this coming ya noe....
that's why I was against it bc of the amount of government involvement, not necessarily religion!

that explains it all, thanks for sharing it. I hope they are actually implementing it. Sometime one has to follow the policy/law set by the ones with Authority.

 

[Developereo]

Just bans religious symbols....
The law does not mention any particular symbol, and thus bans all Christian (veil, signs), Muslim (veil, signs), Sikh (turban, signs) Jewish and other minor religions' signs.[1] But it is considered by many to specifically target the wearing of headscarves (a khimar, considered by most Muslims to be an obligatory article of faith as part of hijab ["modesty"]) by Muslim schoolgirls. For this reason, it is occasionally referred to as the French headscarf ban in the foreign press.

LOL I completely understand. I had to look into for a while before I understood it. You have to realize...France is not very religious so I could have seen this coming ya noe....
that's why I was against it bc of the amount of government involvement, not necessarily religion!

I guess you didn't look very hard.

French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it seems that large crosses, full hijabs or yarmulkes would be banned, while small symbols such as small Stars of David or crosses in pendants would not be;

The law is specifically worded to allow traditional Christian symbols (cross pendants) while outlawing religious symbols for other religions.

 

[ZYXW]

I guess you didn't look very hard.

French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it seems that large crosses, full hijabs or yarmulkes would be banned, while small symbols such as small Stars of David or crosses in pendants would not be;


The law is specifically worded to allow traditional Christian symbols (cross pendants) while outlawing religious symbols for other religions.

Schools funded totally or in part by the national and local governments by law must not force students into religious education; they should remain equally accessible to children of any, or no, faith. For example, even though a majority of the population nominally professes Catholicism (although far fewer regularly practice Catholicism),[6] government-operated French schools have no communal prayers, religious assemblies, or Christian crosses on the walls. The Constitution of France says that France is a laïque (roughly, secular) Republic.

However, thanks for pointing it out. I will try and look at it through a more credible source, but I disagree with that. France seems to be a very non religious country as a whole so I don't know how much, if any, preference it would give to one religious over another.

 

[Developereo]

However, thanks for pointing it out. I will try and look at it through a more credible source, but I disagree with that. France seems to be a very non religious country as a whole so I don't know how much, if any, preference it would give to one religious over another.

Please read the text of the actual French law.
LOI n° 2004-228 du 15 mars 2004 encadrant, en application du principe de laïcité, le port de signes ou de tenues manifestant une appartenance religieuse dans les écoles, collèges et lycées publics | Legifrance

Dans les écoles, les collèges et les lycées publics, le port de signes ou tenues par lesquels les élèves manifestent ostensiblement une appartenance religieuse est interdit.

As I explained several times, if France wanted to bar religious symbols, they could have said so. Instead, they added the weasel word 'ostensiblement' to the law creating a loophole allowing tradition cross pendants, while barring traditional headscarves.

 

[Dubious]

All EU , US , west countries have problem with Vail , they debate always . They have problem with Islam itself , it's only and most radicalized community in Europe . Islam creating many problems in Europe , German Chancellor said "Multiculturalism failed in Germany " as well as British PM.

Denmark Islamic problem is well known , Norway , Belgium all are facing problem.

Denmark initiated their own war by making FREEDOM of expression with no boundries...so now why are they worried about FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSIONS?

Norway we have @Pboy to help expalin whatever you want to know...Belgium is not facing any problem worth highlighting....

Organization Like EDL born in UK only to oppose "Islam" , SIOA etc in USA .

EDL...interesting stuff...Ever heard them talk? Frustrated people....Who are usually high school drop outs...and want desk jobs because they cant get it on their qualification take out stress at others...Just hear ANY ONE of them speak...they sound drunk and are incoherent 99% of the time...

Muslim start fighting with local community where they go create "no go areas" , hate-trade for non-Muslims.........etc

No go area was 1-2 isolated cases...not a representative of the whole community...

 

[Dubious]

See, here's the deal, the state has higher authority then religion. Probably one of the definitions of a secular state. And it does not matter if individuals think this takes away from their freedoms.

@Audio
So democratic is flushed down the drain? Look up the meaning of democratic

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives

It is not only France, iirc Belgium already has a ban on veils, and the Nederlands gov. is considering it if they remain in power after election.

There is no evidence that wearing the full veil in public threatens public safety, public order, health, morals, or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others - the only legitimate grounds for interference with fundamental rights, Human Rights Watch said.

Belgium: Muslim Veil Ban Would Violate Rights | Human Rights Watch
Banning Muslim Veil Denies Women a Choice, Too | Human Rights Watch

US report criticises French Islamic veil ban - FRANCE - FRANCE 24

Personally, i think you are making a big deal out of it. Women can wear the scarf and display their modesty. If they cannot make a simple concession like that.....what im trying to say is, there is no relationship where one side only takes and not gives anything. No working relationship anyhow.
.

In short on few people Actually support such silly laws...Plus it is against their own freedom to impose such stuff...I have no prob with banning niqab...But Ordering someone to dress or not dress in a certain WHILE DECLARING freedom of religion is a hypocrisy! I am only talking about the hypocrisy!!

 

[Dillinger]

Denmark initiated their own war by making FREEDOM of expression with no boundries...so now why are they worried about FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSIONS?

Norway we have @Pboy to help expalin whatever you want to know...Belgium is not facing any problem worth highlighting....


EDL...interesting stuff...Ever heard them talk? Frustrated people....Who are usually high school drop outs...and want desk jobs because they cant get it on their qualification take out stress at others...Just hear ANY ONE of them speak...they sound drunk and are incoherent 99% of the time...


No go area was 1-2 isolated cases...not a representative of the whole community...

Freedom of religious expression does not include stabbing a cartoonist because he happened to "Insult" someone's prophet. That's where the problem started, perhaps that should be understood, laws there aren't meant to "respect religion" but rather to "respect your right to practice any religion"- quite a bit of a difference, no?

We have lunatics here who'll explode at the slightest insult to a temple, why are your beliefs so important that a slight insult will lead to the death of the offender. Any religious group, Hindu, Muslim or any other which cannot abide by this will eventually face such actions elsewhere too.

 

[Vinod2070]

Denmark initiated their own war by making FREEDOM of expression with no boundries...so now why are they worried about FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSIONS?

Norway we have @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=145755" target="_blank">Pboy</a></u> to help expalin whatever you want to know...Belgium is not facing any problem worth highlighting....

EDL...interesting stuff...Ever heard them talk? Frustrated people....Who are usually high school drop outs...and want desk jobs because they cant get it on their qualification take out stress at others...Just hear ANY ONE of them speak...they sound drunk and are incoherent 99% of the time...

No go area was 1-2 isolated cases...not a representative of the whole community...

Not really. Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, France, UK. Sweden all have significant issues.

The crime rate (especially the worst, most immoral and violent crimes, rapes, targeting the local women etc.) among Muslims is very high, much higher than any other community.

There are several no go areas.

 

[Dubious]

Look it's pretty simple, every entity has the right to choose who or what represents them. And it has freedoms of it's own. If gov. of France decides women in burqa aren't apropriate to send on UN conferences what can you do about it? Don't they have a free choice of who to send?
Besides, if any Muslim feels this encroaches on his freedom, he is free to decline the invite to whatever venue they might have sent him/her. Similarly, they would probably not have sent a person with "short cloths".

Freedom is a broad term not fully understood by many, namely most are blissfully ignorant of the fact that their freedom ends where someone else's begins. People think freedom is a one way street, a gravy train that keeps on giving. It's not.

Hope this explains it OK. I'm actually not in the mood to have a religious conversation and a mountain pile of infractions, so.....there's a good chance i wont comment on this anymore.

@Audio so you support Pakistani govt being ok with what they are doing...

Well, then you shouldnt call Pakistan backward...We just did what France is doing NOW

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@Talon I have not followed this thread so please forgive me if this question has been answered before.

If certain countries can ban bikinis for women, then why can't other countries ban facial veils for women too?

 

[Dubious]

Freedom of religious expression does not include stabbing a cartoonist because he happened to "Insult" someone's prophet. That's where the problem started, perhaps that should be understood, laws there aren't meant to "respect religion" but rather to "respect your right to practice any religion"- quite a bit of a difference, no?

We have lunatics here who'll explode at the slightest insult to a temple, why are your beliefs so important that a slight insult will lead to the death of the offender. Any religious group, Hindu, Muslim or any other which cannot abide by this will eventually face such actions elsewhere too.

@Dillinger with freedom comes responsibilities...I do not support the stabbing like i do not support the making of such cartoons...Holocaust is a taboo topic yet it is alright to make fun of ANYOTHER religion? What double standards?